Tucson, We Have a Problem

[MinuteMan47]

Defense = Defending = Protecting

Offense = going on the attack.

Who went to who? Who was defending their home and family?




Someone must be having troubles today...

 

[Bunnykid68]

It's not only that, but because the Police Officers who killed him say they found a Police Officer's uniform in his house, he made the leap that the victim is most likely involved in a home-invasion crew and probably runs drugs too. These may or may not be true, it just rings hollow coming from someone who always says we should wait for all the facts to make a judgment on his fellow officers when someone makes a bad-looking claim against them.

I bet they find Halloween pictures of him dressed up as a cop and thats why he had that clothing.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Defense = Defending = Protecting

Offense = going on the attack.

Who went to who? Who was defending their home and family?




Someone must be having troubles today...

Pointing a gun =offensive Someone must be having troubles today.

 

[PatriotPride]

Crouching can also be a offensive position. You keep saying he took a defensive position. I never read that only that he was crouching. If he knew there were 8 men at the door he knew they were swat. Oh swats here think ill get a gun. They wear identifying uniforms. He would have seen the vehicles. Your trying to set up unlikely circumstances that make it sound like this guy was Mr. innocent. If this story is fabricated thats something totally different. As it reads the shooting was justified. The only think I would take concerned with would be failing to render aid after the shooting.

So I should assume that if I have 8 men at my door, then it's SWAT and nothing else? As far as "identifying uniforms"---try again. A small POLICE patch on the shoulder does not an "identifying uniform" make, especially as they're breaking through your door.

Guilty until proven innocent. That's an interesting way to operate. Can't say I'm surprised though.

 

[Keyser Soze]

So I should assume that if I have 8 men at my door, then it's SWAT and nothing else? As far as "identifying uniforms"---try again. A small POLICE patch on the shoulder does not an "identifying uniform" make, especially as they're breaking through your door.

Guilty until proven innocent. That's an interesting way to operate. Can't say I'm surprised though.

Never seen the uniforms that particular team wears. Typically they have a big patch in from and back. This never would have happened if he did not point a fire arm at a police officer who was in his home lawfully.

 

[MinuteMan47]

Pointing a gun =offensive Someone must be having troubles today.

Yes, they are...that's why you should probably put the iPhone down while you are on duty. It's illegal to text and drive now you know...of course, that law only applies to the subjects.


Oh BTW, your example is pretty bad. Pointing a gun can be both. If a bad guy comes and puts a gun in your ear it would be VERY hard to defend yourself without pointing a gun at him. That's called defense...or defending.

 

[PatriotPride]

Never seen the uniforms that particular team wears. Typically they have a big patch in from and back. This never would have happened if he did not point a fire arm at a police officer who was in his home lawfully.

A quick Google search will bring it up for you. I could put together their uniform in ten minutes.

It hasn't been proven that he pointed a firearm at an officer. They've yet to provide proof, and have only shown that they can't be trusted as they circle the wagons.

 

[Rookie]

Never seen the uniforms that particular team wears. Typically they have a big patch in from and back. This never would have happened if one of the "highly trained" officers wasn't guilty of a NEGLIGENT Discharge .

That's more accurate.

 

[rambone]

Defense = Defending = Protecting

Offense = going on the attack.

Who went to who? Who was defending their home and family?

Pointing a gun =offensive Someone must be having troubles today.

Yeah I'm sure that guy stumbled out of bed so he could go ruin a bunch of police officers' day. Get real. When you invade someone's home, you are on the offense by definition.

 

[dross]

Pointing a gun =offensive Someone must be having troubles today.

Putting this case aside for a moment, if the police execute a no-knock warrant on my house, how do I know if they're police? If I hear someone breaking down my door, what should I do?

 

[Benny]

Putting this case aside for a moment, if the police execute a no-knock warrant on my house, how do I know if they're police? If I hear someone breaking down my door, what should I do?

Wait to be robbed or arrested and/or killed.

 

[Benny]

Wait to be robbed or arrested and/or killed.

Oh and if it is indeed SWAT and you have a large sum of money, wait to be robbed and arrested.

 

[MinuteMan47]

The LEO [STRIKE]silence[/STRIKE] chatter here is deafening.

FIFY.

 

[lashicoN]

A. police entered with a valid warrant
B. He was crouched down in a corner with a long gun
C. He pointed the gun at officers.

So its kosher to point a weapon at someone if your in a defensive position and the safety is on. I get it now.

Crouching can also be a offensive position. You keep saying he took a defensive position. I never read that only that he was crouching.

You put a gun at me I am going to fire and continue firing until the the firearm is dropped.

Pointing a gun =offensive Someone must be having troubles today.

I think someone IS having lots of troubles today. I may not be able to keep everything you and j706 say straight, but at least I can keep what I said straight. I don't think I even need to break this down. Your own back-and-forth should do just fine. But in case it doesn't, how did the police officers fire 70 rounds if they didn't first POINT THEIR GUNS AT HIM? You said so yourself, that if someone points a gun at you, you're going to fire. The victim showed more restraint than you would have, because he didn't fire, and men were offensively pointing guns at him, and firing.

 

[Benny]

I think someone IS having lots of troubles today. I may not be able to keep everything you and j706 say straight, but at least I can keep what I said straight. I don't think I even need to break this down. Your own back-and-forth should do just fine. But in case it doesn't, how did the police officers fire 70 rounds if they didn't first POINT THEIR GUNS AT HIM? You said so yourself, that if someone points a gun at you, you're going to fire. The victim showed more restraint than you would have, because he didn't fire, and men were offensively pointing guns at him, and firing.

In Keyser's defense, he never mentioned that those with a badge should play by the same rules as us lowly citizens.

 

[PatriotPride]

In Keyser's defense, he never mentioned that those with a badge should play by the same rules as us lowly citizens.

True enough.

 

[grizman]

I met some guys in the military once but don't know much about the tactics used. What would you do if a weapon was pointed at you. The article never said he was killed for having a weapon?

Huh answered earlier in a hurry and missed this statement. If he wasn't killed because he had a weapon then why was he killed? Later info suggests a ND at the door frame, by one of Pina counties finest, caused wood splinters to impact other officers there by causing them to return fire. You actually think the Marine was so slow that he couldn't have returned at least one shot after the ND your nuts! The man has been in a combat zone he knew they were cops thats why he didn't fire.

He was gunned down like Bonnie and Clyde because the SWATies couldn't assess the situation as quickly or correctly nor could they over come their individual fear of being hit in the line of duty!

You swear an oath, you accept the job, you therefore accept the possible negative personal repercussions that go hand in hand with the chosen job.

What nerve to come on a board like this and attempt to convince everyone that illegal, immoral and cowardly behavior is acceptable because only a cop understands. BS we all understand, we all see things much more clearly than you think, because our heads aren't full of placed there during training so we will do these things with a lack of remorse.

This is not a board dedicated to the LE mantra and mind set if you don't like our opinions or refuse to entertain the idea that some cop screwed the pooch. Don't read these threads or become involved in them.

Whether you realize it or not when you come on here and attempt to rationalize these heinous action by defending them you do not cast the light of "truth" on the men in question, you cast a shadow of doubt upon your own character.

There are highly respected officers on this board because they see things objectively and don't beat the brotherhood drum of denial about these things. Why do yourself the personal dishonor by blindly defending the obviously wrong?

I do tread toward the citizen but I have sided with the LEO before and do stay out of these threads if there is reasonable doubt. Been a long while since I have been in one of these threads. This deal just stinks to high heaven and those defending this action raise the shat level even higher.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I think someone IS having lots of troubles today. I may not be able to keep everything you and j706 say straight, but at least I can keep what I said straight. I don't think I even need to break this down. Your own back-and-forth should do just fine. But in case it doesn't, how did the police officers fire 70 rounds if they didn't first POINT THEIR GUNS AT HIM? You said so yourself, that if someone points a gun at you, you're going to fire. The victim showed more restraint than you would have, because he didn't fire, and men were offensively pointing guns at him, and firing.

He pointed a gun. They pointed back and fired. I am asumming he did not fire because he was killed.

 

[Bunnykid68]

He pointed a gun. They pointed back and fired. I am asumming he did not fire because he was killed.

I am assuming he did not fire because he realized they were officers of the law. His first and last mistake.

 

[NYFelon]

Why not just unseal the warrant so it can be seen by the public? Seems that would go a heck of a long way to clear up what was listed as the material to be seized. Them just saying "everything we thought we would find, we found", then sealing the warrant under "safety precautions" stinks to high heaven. No offense to any LEOs, but you work for us. You have no right whatsoever to hide pertinent information from the citizens for whom you serve when and if they demand it of you.