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    BugI02

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    Did anyone actually question their citizenship other than Trump?

    Your exact question was did anyone other than Trump question his citizenship? I believe I answered that question adequately in the affirmative

    If you google "McCain citizenship question" you'll get 'About 418,000 results (0.39 seconds)'

    If you google "Cruz citizenship question" you'll get 'About 482,000 results (0.49 seconds)'

    Would you care to reframe the question/complaint to reflect your additional unspoken criteria or would you like to do your own research
     

    T.Lex

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    I guess this is a different way to formulate the issue: is labeling Obama as "The Kenyan" a qualitatively different pejorative than calling him "douchebag," "jerk," "rank amateur," etc.?

    To Kut's point, it seems to me that certain people resort to "The Kenyan" because it is easy to parry the race issue by saying it is a paperwork/citizenship issue. Yet, calling him "The Kenyan" isn't any sort of substantive attack at all. Heck, there are probably Kenyans that are/were better qualified than he is/was. It is a smokescreen for something else, IMHO. That "something else" may or may not be racial, but is certainly isn't substantive.

    Really - it is a variation of the argument about the N-word. It means different things to different people, and sometimes isn't even race-related at all.
     

    IndyDave1776

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    Really - it is a variation of the argument about the N-word. It means different things to different people, and sometimes isn't even race-related at all.

    I would have to disagree with this point. A Kenyan is a national of the country of Kenya, nothing more or less. There is no country on the planet whose nationals are properly and formally known as n*****s.
     

    IndyDave1776

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    Can one not be "bad for America," and still think they are doing the right thing for America?

    Only if you accept the proposition that undermining the Constitution he swore to uphold and defend is something he honestly believes is the 'right thing'.
     

    IndyDave1776

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    Bowing is a sign of subservience, not respect. The weak bow before the strong. The servant bows to his master. No American leader should ever show subservience to a foreign leader. Ever.

    This needs read again, and again, and again.

    North_carolina_fireworks.jpg
     

    Jludo

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    Your exact question was did anyone other than Trump question his citizenship? I believe I answered that question adequately in the affirmative

    If you google "McCain citizenship question" you'll get 'About 418,000 results (0.39 seconds)'

    If you google "Cruz citizenship question" you'll get 'About 482,000 results (0.49 seconds)'

    Would you care to reframe the question/complaint to reflect your additional unspoken criteria or would you like to do your own research

    No you're absolutely right, my question was if there was anyone else. You were right, there were other people.
     

    T.Lex

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    I would have to disagree with this point. A Kenyan is a national of the country of Kenya, nothing more or less. There is no country on the planet whose nationals are properly and formally known as n*****s.

    Nice rhetorical shift. Calling Obama "The Kenyan" is undeniably more than calling him a national of Kenya.
     

    T.Lex

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    Bowing is a sign of subservience, not respect. The weak bow before the strong. The servant bows to his master. No American leader should ever show subservience to a foreign leader. Ever.

    This is not true in every culture.
     

    T.Lex

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    So tell me just exactly what it is you are telling me that I am calling him.

    Honestly, you've spoken crosswise so many times, I have no clue.

    I do think there's more than a nugget of truth to what Kut's saying. There are so many more substantive insults for Obama that to choose "The Kenyan" strongly suggests to me a racial element.
     

    T.Lex

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    In those cultures generally the first to bow is subservient, and bows more deeply. Like our leader did.

    Kinda depends on context. Rather than pick nits, I think we can both agree that, as in so many things, he did it wrong. May or may not have been the objectively wrong thing to do, but even if there was a right way to do it, he didn't accomplish it.
     

    IndyDave1776

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    Honestly, you've spoken crosswise so many times, I have no clue.

    I do think there's more than a nugget of truth to what Kut's saying. There are so many more substantive insults for Obama that to choose "The Kenyan" strongly suggests to me a racial element.

    OK. I give up. Having a problem with Obama makes me a f**king racist.
     

    jamil

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    Gtown-ish

    T.Lex

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    OK. I give up. Having a problem with Obama makes me a f**king racist.

    I don't know if you f*** or not. :)

    There are IMHO tons of reasons to have problems with Obama. You, me, Kut, Michelle, all have problems with Obama. What pejorative to use to refer to him is a choice, though. That choice can reveal the nature of your issues.

    I tend to call Obama an amateur. That's my personal preference based on how it captures so many of the things wrong with his presidency.

    When you use "The Kenyan" - whether you intend to or not - it reflects what you are choosing to capture. That includes a racial aspect. You don't have to want that, but you also can't deny it.
     

    jamil

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    OK. I give up. Having a problem with Obama makes me a f**king racist.
    Dave, I've seen you post positive things about black conservative candidates. It seems obvious to me that your contempt for Obama is more ideologically and perhaps even culturally based than racial. But without considering that, I can see why people might mistake "the Kenyan" as having a racial component.

    ETA: see? tlex's post exemplifies that.
     

    jamil

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    I don't know if you f*** or not. :)

    There are IMHO tons of reasons to have problems with Obama. You, me, Kut, Michelle, all have problems with Obama. What pejorative to use to refer to him is a choice, though. That choice can reveal the nature of your issues.

    I tend to call Obama an amateur. That's my personal preference based on how it captures so many of the things wrong with his presidency.

    When you use "The Kenyan" - whether you intend to or not - it reflects what you are choosing to capture. That includes a racial aspect. You don't have to want that, but you also can't deny it.
    In conversations that go back leading up to the election in 2012, Dave has consistently applied "the Kenyan" to a belief that Obama is not a natural born citizen. That is no more racist than calling Cruz a Canadian.
     
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