Trump pardons Sheriff Joe

[KLB]

Well....yes. I am all for it. Get the bad apples out of the basket. They are using our resources. Many do not pay taxes.
They do "NOT" have any rights under our flag. They are here bypassing the process. They know they are doing it the wrong way.

I see your point but do not agree for the reasons I list above.

Question.....how would you weed them out. By what process.

"But".....I was profiled/. It is pretty much the same thing regardless.
I fit a profile. Period.

This is just my humble opinion. I see all sides but the softer we get the more they take. Time to drive some nails.

It isn't soft to honor the rights of citizens instead of treading on them to try and find people breaking the law.

I guess you think it is OK for the police to stop everyone that has a gun to see if they are legal to carry too then? Obviously if they did they could catch people that are not legal to carry a gun. It isn't much of a hassle to have to prove that you are legally carrying in order for that to happen, right?

 

[Fargo]

Yeah, this was a political witch hunt. It's too bad that the judge who convicted him was appointed by George W. Bush

That was Grant Snow, the judge who referred him for charges and whose order he violated. He was convicted by a different federal judge, Susan Bolton, the same one who upheld the so-called "show me your papers" law in Arizona.

 

[A 7.62 Exodus]

I can honestly get over the "profiling." It happens every day, everywhere, even if people won't admit it. It's the other stuff I can't get over.

Where do I start? Oh yeah....alllllll of these.


Proudly referred to his tent city as a "concentration camp"
Joe Arpaio: Tent City a "Concentration Camp" | Phoenix New Times

Prisoners under his care died more than anywhere else in the country
Prisoners Hang Themselves in Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio's Jails at an Alarming Rate | Phoenix New Times

Breaking the neck of inmates asking for simple care
Jailers Show a Paraplegic Who's Boss | Phoenix New Times

Arresting the media for covering how much of an ass you are.
Joe Arpaio Loses: New Times Co-Founders Win $3.75 Million Settlement for 2007 False Arrests | Phoenix New Times

Straight up refusing to investigate sex abuse cases.
Victims Wonder Why Arpaio Let Sex-Abuse Cases Languish | Phoenix New Times

And, the best one, framing someone for "trying to assassinate me"
A Phony Murder Plot Against Joe Arpaio Winds Up Costing Taxpayers $1.1 Million | Phoenix New Times

This guy is a waste of space who cost the tax payers MILLIONS as his time as sheriff

 

[Trigger Time]

What the hell are you talking about?

Statistics

 

[KLB]

Statistics

So you think that the rights of the approximately 1.5 million white Hispanics in Arizona should be trod upon because there is some number of illegals of the same ethnicity?

If an illegal gets stopped for some legitimate reason and is found to be illegal, send them back. Don't go around stopping people just because they look like they are Mexican to see if they are illegal.

 

[Fargo]

I can honestly get over the "profiling." It happens every day, everywhere, even if people won't admit it. It's the other stuff I can't get over.

Where do I start? Oh yeah....alllllll of these.


Proudly referred to his tent city as a "concentration camp"
Joe Arpaio: Tent City a "Concentration Camp" | Phoenix New Times

Prisoners under his care died more than anywhere else in the country
Prisoners Hang Themselves in Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio's Jails at an Alarming Rate | Phoenix New Times

Breaking the neck of inmates asking for simple care
Jailers Show a Paraplegic Who's Boss | Phoenix New Times

Arresting the media for covering how much of an ass you are.
Joe Arpaio Loses: New Times Co-Founders Win $3.75 Million Settlement for 2007 False Arrests | Phoenix New Times

Straight up refusing to investigate sex abuse cases.
Victims Wonder Why Arpaio Let Sex-Abuse Cases Languish | Phoenix New Times

And, the best one, framing someone for "trying to assassinate me"
A Phony Murder Plot Against Joe Arpaio Winds Up Costing Taxpayers $1.1 Million | Phoenix New Times

This guy is a waste of space who cost the tax payers MILLIONS as his time as sheriff

He was a straight up dirty cop who hired other criminals to be cops as well. The prosecutor he got to go along with him has since been disbarred. Dirty cops are the lowest kind of scum in my book.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Yeah, this was a political witch hunt. It's too bad that the judge who convicted him was appointed by George W. Bush

If you can find in judge Bolton's opinion (Arpaio's conviction) a single place indicating the MCSO detained a single individual, solely for being in the country illegally, AFTER the injunction, please point it out to me.

THAT is what he was convicted of, and is a necessary fact in order for him to have violated the injunction against him and his department.

 

[Fargo]

If you can find in judge Bolton's opinion (Arpaio's conviction) a single place indicating the MCSO detained a single individual, solely for being in the country illegally, AFTER the injunction, please point it out to me.

THAT is what he was convicted of, and is a necessary fact in order for him to have violated the injunction against him and his department.

Uhhhh, he openly admitted violating the injunction in court during the civil contempt proceeding. His defense during the criminal contempt proceedings was that it was unintentional.

 

[churchmouse]

So you think that the rights of the approximately 1.5 million white Hispanics in Arizona should be trod upon because there is some number of illegals of the same ethnicity?

If an illegal gets stopped for some legitimate reason and is found to be illegal, send them back. Don't go around stopping people just because they look like they are Mexican to see if they are illegal.

Good point and I agree but this will have to be across the board.

 

[Sylvain]

If you are not a citizen here you are not covered under the bill of rights as I read it. That is the part where these people need to realize this and get on with the process and stop by-passing it and expecting all the benefits.

It's not how the Supreme Court sees it.

[FONT=&amp]Three key Supreme Court decisions in 1886, 1896 and 1903 laid the 14th Amendment basis for the consistent ruling of the court that aliens, legal and illegal, have constitutional protection in criminal and certain civil affairs in the justice system.[/FONT]

Yes, illegal aliens have constitutional rights | TheHill

That doesn't mean illegal aliens get "all the benefits" of legal immigrants or citizens.They clearly don't.
They still can get arrested and deported.They just have basic human rights.
And of course they can't vote as it's one of the benefits only granted to US citizens.

It's a good thing that the constitution guarantees rights to everybody including non-citizens (legal or not).

Imagine if you, as a US citizen, go to a foreign country for a vacation (let's say France) and you get arrested by the police.
You will have the same rights under the law as a French citizen.
You will have the right to an attorney and one will even be provided for you free of charge if you can't afford one.

They won't just throw you in jail without a fair trial just because you're a foreigner with no rights under the French constitution.

Also rights come with responsibilities.
The constitution says that anyone in the US can enjoy the same freedom but they also have to obey the same laws.

So yes illegals have the same freedom of speech (or freedom of religion) that you have but they will also be arrested or deported if caught breaking the law (which they are breaking by being there illegally).

Same way f I visit the US as a tourist I still have to obey the speed limit.
In return I will enjoy the same basic freedom that you have.
A cop can't arrest me because he sees a Bible in my car and thinks I should have no freedom of religion while visiting the US because I'm a foreign citizen.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Uhhhh, he openly admitted violating the injunction in court during the civil contempt proceeding. His defense during the criminal contempt proceedings was that it was unintentional.

His defense during his criminal trial was that he thought he was operating within the plain text of the injunction issued by Judge [STRIKE]White[/STRIKE] Snow. Judge [STRIKE]White[/STRIKE] Snow said the injunction CLEARLY said he could only hold illegals if he filed state charges (not immigration). Judge Bolton affirmed [STRIKE]White's[/STRIKE] Snow's interpretation of:

MCSO and all of it's officers are hereby enjoined from detaining any person based only on knowledge or reasonable belief, without more, that the person is unlawfully present within the Untied States.

Is that clear to you that he must have state charges? Under both [STRIKE]White[/STRIKE] Snow and Bolton's interpretation, Arpaio would have been in violation for detaining an FBI top ten fugitive... if they didn't violate Arizona law.

 

[Trigger Time]

So you think that the rights of the approximately 1.5 million white Hispanics in Arizona should be trod upon because there is some number of illegals of the same ethnicity?

If an illegal gets stopped for some legitimate reason and is found to be illegal, send them back. Don't go around stopping people just because they look like they are Mexican to see if they are illegal.

I'm talking about mexicans
Whats a white Hispanic have to do with anything ?

 

[Fargo]

His defense during his criminal trial was that he thought he was operating within the plain text of the injunction issued by Judge White. Judge White said the injunction CLEARLY said he could only hold illegals if he filed state charges (not immigration). Judge Bolton affirmed White's interpretation of:



Is that clear to you that he must have state charges? Under both White and Bolton's interpretation, Arpaio would have been in violation for detaining an FBI top ten fugitive... if they didn't violate Arizona law.

Who is this Judge White you are referring to?

 

[Kutnupe14]

It isn't soft to honor the rights of citizens instead of treading on them to try and find people breaking the law.

I guess you think it is OK for the police to stop everyone that has a gun to see if they are legal to carry too then? Obviously if they did they could catch people that are not legal to carry a gun. It isn't much of a hassle to have to prove that you are legally carrying in order for that to happen, right?

O' Snap!

kut (is eating his Indian food dinner, and seeing lots of logic)

 

[SwikLS]

I can honestly get over the "profiling." It happens every day, everywhere, even if people won't admit it. It's the other stuff I can't get over.

Where do I start? Oh yeah....alllllll of these.


Proudly referred to his tent city as a "concentration camp"
Joe Arpaio: Tent City a "Concentration Camp" | Phoenix New Times

Prisoners under his care died more than anywhere else in the country
Prisoners Hang Themselves in Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio's Jails at an Alarming Rate | Phoenix New Times

Breaking the neck of inmates asking for simple care
Jailers Show a Paraplegic Who's Boss | Phoenix New Times

Arresting the media for covering how much of an ass you are.
Joe Arpaio Loses: New Times Co-Founders Win $3.75 Million Settlement for 2007 False Arrests | Phoenix New Times

Straight up refusing to investigate sex abuse cases.
Victims Wonder Why Arpaio Let Sex-Abuse Cases Languish | Phoenix New Times

And, the best one, framing someone for "trying to assassinate me"
A Phony Murder Plot Against Joe Arpaio Winds Up Costing Taxpayers $1.1 Million | Phoenix New Times

This guy is a waste of space who cost the tax payers MILLIONS as his time as sheriff

but as I understand it, the contempt charge was for racial profiling and not the other stuff (maybe I'm wrong about that)


however, again I say....

This is what happens when a president doesnt let the border patrol and ICE do their jobs.

 

[churchmouse]

It isn't soft to honor the rights of citizens instead of treading on them to try and find people breaking the law.

I guess you think it is OK for the police to stop everyone that has a gun to see if they are legal to carry too then? Obviously if they did they could catch people that are not legal to carry a gun. It isn't much of a hassle to have to prove that you are legally carrying in order for that to happen, right?

OK......another good point. "But"

I asked you earlier how you would weed out the bad apples.
I have in the past gotten asked a lot if I have a permit. I was riding my Harley most of the time and I guess I just got profiled again. Also standing next to the bike with other like minded people and asked 3 times in the same night. Not OC either.

Just minor examples but this is the way of things more or less.

 

[IndyDave1776]

No, I don't believe it would've affected that right at all. Since it carries a maximum penalty of six months or less, I don't believe it would trigger any statutes that I know of. One thing that is kind of glossed over in this thread is that in federal court there is no right to a jury trial on any offense that doesn't carry more than a six month penalty. It doesn't matter whether this was a contempt charge or any other federal misdemeanor arrying less than six+ months, there is no constitutional jury right, at least as far as the US supreme court is concerned.

Now I disagree with them as I think that any criminal charge should have a jury right, but this is not something new at all or special about this case.

How does this work? It seems that even if they try to skirt around the issue by calling it a civil matter, this still wouldn't fly constitutionally (of course, since when have we actually followed the Constitution in my lifetime?).

Article [VI] (Amendment 6 - Rights of Accused in Criminal Prosecutions)
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Article [VII] (Amendment 7 - Civil Trials)
In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

 

[Fargo]

but as I understand it, the contempt charge was for racial profiling and not the other stuff (maybe I'm wrong about that)


however, again I say....

That is correct, but he got the same ( or better when you consider the millions of dollars of taxpayer funded lawyers he has received) due process as anyone on the charges and was convicted.

What saddens me is that a dirty cop is Trump's first pardon, not because he deserves that extraordinary remedy, but because he is idolized by some people who Trump needs the support of.

It is the exact same sort of a whore-ish pandering that led Obama to commute Bradley Manning's sentence.

 

[Trigger Time]

So who hear has been to the southern border and realizes that they have the LEGAL authority to stop people just to make sure they aren't illegals. Not just at the border but also so many miles after the border too. I don't know where Joes jurisdiction stared and began but I'm think any reasonable person realizes no one is stopping people that are citizens to harrass them because of any reason. They are trying to find invaders of our country

 

[Kutnupe14]

So who hear has been to the southern border and realizes that they have the LEGAL authority to stop people just to make sure they aren't illegals. Not just at the border but also so many miles after the border too. I don't know where Joes jurisdiction stared and began but I'm think any reasonable person realizes no one is stopping people that are citizens to harrass them because of any reason. They are trying to find invaders of our country

Those are affectionately known as "Constitution-Free Zones."
Here's a source you may respect (and Obama doesn't get a passion this either).

Judge reaffirms 'Constitution-free zones' near border, teeing up high court fight | Fox News