Trump 2024 ???

[Tombs]

It's actually pretty straight forward. Burn it down, let's get this party started

If they can frame, arrest and imprison the number one republican candidate for president in 2024 then only a fool would believe DeSantis has the gravitas to fix that or that those same powers would let him

Nobody has to do anything if Trump goes to prison. The biggest spectacle of political martyrdom in history has been set in motion.
If this doesn't prove that democrats are some of the most braindead people walking the planet, I don't know what does. They're jumping off a diving board and into a wood chipper of their own accord.

The democrats are making the most politically sound choice they've ever made, and nothing Trump has said will be validated. His supporters will turn away and vote for Joe Biden. Congress will be under democrat super majority for the next 20 years. There's no possible way this could have unintended consequences!

 

[Tombs]

So why not just do it now and separate the wheat from the chaff?

Because they're going to do that to themselves if you don't interrupt them.

In fact I'd suggest supporting this galaxy brained political stunt. "Hold my beer" moment of this country's history.

 

[jamil]

Nobody has to do anything if Trump goes to prison. The biggest spectacle of political martyrdom in history has been set in motion.
If this doesn't prove that democrats are some of the most braindead people walking the planet, I don't know what does. They're jumping off a diving board and into a wood chipper of their own accord.

The democrats are making the most politically sound choice they've ever made, and nothing Trump has said will be validated. His supporters will turn away and vote for Joe Biden. Congress will be under democrat super majority for the next 20 years. There's no possible way this could have unintended consequences!

The biggest spectacle of political martyrdom? I mean like ever?

 

[jamil]

So why not just do it now and separate the wheat from the chaff?

Yeah. Alienate everyone who isn’t exactly on board with Trump. That’s the key to victory.

 

[Ziggidy]

Alienate everyone who isn’t exactly on board with Trump.

So that’s it? Does it work both ways?

 

[SheepDog4Life]

So that’s it? Does it work both ways?

No it doesn't work both ways... for just one small example Liddle Donnie loser-don would get his liddle feelz all hurt if it did work both ways. And the Trumpers would be all about how liddle it is to result to name calling. Sanctimonious even.

In other words Trump and Trumpers can dish, but cannot take his/their own medicine... not by a long shot.

The best President in my lifetime, the guy that did more of what he said he would than any president I ever voted for. While he is not perfect, I am definitely stuck on him, especially since the 2020 election was stolen from him…

You keep saying that, but without a shred of proof... like an article of faith.

In fact, as far as I can find, every single claim was investigated and found to be false.

Thousands or tens of thousands dead voted? Turned out to be 2-3 people when full information used, not just first name, last name and YEAR of birth.

5-6,000 out-of-staters voted? Based upon change of address forms and other state registrations. None... all were investigated and found to have moved out-of-state BUT then returned to Georgia... most YEARS prior to the election.

etc, etc

Trump and his staff knew this... Gov and SoS laid it all out for him... here's the transcript:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-raffensperger-call-transcript-georgia-vote/2021/01/03/2768e0cc-4ddd-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html

But of course, Kemp and Raffensperger are "slimy criminals" because they wouldn't make **** up to give Trump the win.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Honestly, I've looked... in depth. I see things like PA Supreme Court extending when mail-in ballots could be received, which I don't agree with, but that ruling was 2 months before the election... not election night. I see things like arguing against allow seniors in LTC facilities under lock down to use mail-in ballots. I see claims on thousands of dead voters based solely on first name, last name and YEAR of birth searches, that when examined with full voter information, reduces to actual dead voters (fraud) you can count on one hand.

I've seen lots of claims of fraudulent voting and stolen elections, but when I dig in, and especially when I look at court filings, these reduce down to rules known before the election that were not objected to before the election, and none of them are what I would consider flagrant... for example, allowing more time for early voting and more time for mail in ballots to come in doesn't make them fraudulent votes. (unlike states that sent mail-in ballots, not applications, to all registered voters... which IMO is inherently fraudulent)

So, IMO, Trump was confident that he would win and didn't challenge rules that slightly favor more Democrat votes coming in, and lost an election he could have easily won. His ego cannot handle that, that simply cannot be in his mind, so it must have been stolen. He barely won in 2016 because Hillary was the most reviled candidate ever. He cannot accept that he took on that role in 2020. Just like million punched TRUMP in 2016 to vote AGAINST Hillary, millions did the same for Biden in 2020.

So, to me, that is the opposite of the righteous battle.

And, maybe you know something I don't... in each of the five states that Trump won in 2016 then lost in 2020, what are the best facts that shenanigans "stole" the state from Trump? That he had more votes that Biden? Or any three that would change the electoral count to his favor? Or even in any of the five: Arizona, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin?


I've looked... in depth... I don't see it because I don't think it's there.

I've not seen a shred of evidence that has changed since this post, long ago...

 

[Ingomike]

You keep saying that, but without a shred of proof... like an article of faith.

Proof is everywhere, some are blind and cannot see, others are willfully blind…

 

[Ingomike]

In fact, as far as I can find, every single claim was investigated and found to be false.

A blatant lie.

 

[HKFaninCarmel]

The best President in my lifetime, the guy that did more of what he said he would than any president I ever voted for. While he is not perfect, I am definitely stuck on him, especially since the 2020 election was stolen from him…

The 2020 election was lost, not stolen. He also debated like crap and made too much about him. The evidence wasn't there. The accusations lacked substance. The attorneys embarrassed themselves. We will lose if we run on this narrative nationwide. The Kari Lake folks who think the House can reinstate Trump look like lunatics.

I've not seen a shred of evidence that has changed since this post, long ago...

It hasn't because the election wasn't stolen. Trump lost. He lost significant ground in 2018. He lost in 2020, and we lost tight races where he was on the ballot, and 2022 was a huge disappointment, particularly with Trump-endorsed candidates. He's a toxic label. It's not worth losing with him to watch four more years of left-wing appointments and orders.

Give me Burgum. Give me DeSantis. Give me someone without tons of baggage and indictments that spends more than 45 minutes a weekend campaigning.

 

[Ingomike]

The 2020 election was lost, not stolen. He also debated like crap and made too much about him. The evidence wasn't there. The accusations lacked substance. The attorneys embarrassed themselves. We will lose if we run on this narrative nationwide. The Kari Lake folks who think the House can reinstate Trump look like lunatics.

It hasn't because the election wasn't stolen. Trump lost. He lost significant ground in 2018. He lost in 2020, and we lost tight races where he was on the ballot, and 2022 was a huge disappointment, particularly with Trump-endorsed candidates. He's a toxic label. It's not worth losing with him to watch four more years of left-wing appointments and orders.

Give me Burgum. Give me DeSantis. Give me someone without tons of baggage and indictments that spends more than 45 minutes a weekend campaigning.

You have bought into the second biggest psyc-op in our lifetimes. You bring up small potatoes. Not a single court case went to discovery. The same forensic accountants and techniques used by the government to discover financial fraud were not good enough to trigger actual investigations. Just reported last week DOJ official said Barr ordered them not to investigate.

It is widely known that the US government military/CIA possess software to affect elections, this has been verified by several former generals, Snowden verified the scope of NSA. But folks that believe the powers that be used this in 2020 are just uninformed.

 

[Route 45]

 

[Ingomike]

Are Dems Prepared for This Possibility Regarding Their Political Persecution of Trump?

townhall.com

 

[jamil]

So that’s it? Does it work both ways?

Both ways? You think there are two ways? In the other direction is a group too eclectic to have a precise way they want it. Except for the people who are so anti-Trump, they'd rather live with a fully mature ClownWorld™ than endure another Trump Presidency. So if it's those people you're talking about, okay. Lincoln project rabidly anti-Trump Republicans like Mitt Romney are more of a liability than a help in the new Republican Party.

But generally, alienating people who want to resist ClownWorld™, who could vote for Trump against ClownWorld™ isn't going to lead to long term success. I'd estimate that a good way to know who the people committed to the task of ending ClownWorld™, those people would vote for Trump between him and Biden, even if he were convicted. It's been awhile since I saw a poll on it. There were two indictments since then so it may have changed. But something like only 1/5 of voters would vote for Trump if he were convicted. Dude, you need a bigger tent.

Instead of purifying the party to get rid of any not-pure Trumpers, and ABT's as Bug retardedly calls them, people need to coalesce around ending ClownWorld™. You can purify and self-sort later.

 

[jamil]

Are Dems Prepared for This Possibility Regarding Their Political Persecution of Trump?

townhall.com

Maybe. I suspect if it's a fair trial Trump would beat the RICO charges. But just look at the way the Judge hearing the indictment case interacted with the press. He thinks Trump getting indicted is entertaining. I don't see how he's going to get a fair trail in Atlanta. But even the Bragg indictments, which kinda started all this, Trump handed him the rope. If they're gonna hang you for bull **** charges, at least make them fabricate their own rope.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Proof is everywhere, some are blind and cannot see, others are willfully blind…

A blatant lie.

Mike, we went through this before and I followed up, exhaustively, on every single point you made that Trump was fraudulently denied a rightful victory in any state, let alone enough in several states to win the electoral college.

The result was zero (ok 3 dead people in Georgia, but nowhere near the 12,000 vote difference).

AND, Trump and his lawyers KNOW this... the only claims they filed in any of the courts were over election law rules IN PLACE PRIOR to the election.

ZERO allegations of fraud, in court, under oath under penalty of disbarment for knowingly false claims. ZERO.

There are plenty of blantant lies and fraud here... but to my disappointment (remember, I went through all of this when I WANTED the allegation to be true) but all of them come from Trump.

Sorry, but Trump is a charlatan on the "stolen election" claims...

 

[Ingomike]

Mike, we went through this before and I followed up, exhaustively, on every single point you made that Trump was fraudulently denied a rightful victory in any state, let alone enough in several states to win the electoral college.

The result was zero (ok 3 dead people in Georgia, but nowhere near the 12,000 vote difference).

AND, Trump and his lawyers KNOW this... the only claims they filed in any of the courts were over election law rules IN PLACE PRIOR to the election.

ZERO allegations of fraud, in court, under oath under penalty of disbarment for knowingly false claims. ZERO.

There are plenty of blantant lies and fraud here... but to my disappointment (remember, I went through all of this when I WANTED the allegation to be true) but all of them come from Trump.

Sorry, but Trump is a charlatan on the "stolen election" claims...

This explains your venom toward Trump far better than election fraud.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Maybe. I suspect if it's a fair trial Trump would beat the RICO charges. But just look at the way the Judge hearing the indictment case interacted with the press. He thinks Trump getting indicted is entertaining. I don't see how he's going to get a fair trail in Atlanta. But even the Bragg indictments, which kinda started all this, Trump handed him the rope. If they're gonna hang you for bull **** charges, at least make them fabricate their own rope.

Here's my take on the indictments:

1. Bragg - made up BS felony charges not present under the law in NY. He was right the first time, at best a misdemeanor or 3, which for anyone else would be "fix your papers" or a small fine.

2. Documents - real charges concerning real criminal law over real documents. Trump ignored (and lied to) his lawyers to turn over the documents subpoena'ed, instead he lied and tried to hide the documents, have security video deleted, etc. Every bit as guilty as Hillary - he just didn't have the loyal henchmen she did, nor the intelligence she did to STFU.

3. Jan 6th Fraud case - quite a reach, IMO, and should never have been brought... at least based upon the evidence put forward. IMO, mostly since the impeachment failed, the correct political check/balance, the Biden DoJ is looking for impeachment re-do in court. This is banana-republic stuff.

4. Georgia charges - haven't looked at these yet. If they revolve around threatening prison for GA officials if they didn't come up with fraudulent counts in his favor, then they might have substance. If they are just about the "find 11,780 votes" at the end of a long call where he kept arguing that there were 100's of thousands, then persecution, not prosecution. When I have nothing better to do, I'll take a look. Reading though the transcripts of some of his calls with GA officials, he does appear to threaten them, so that's the only "smoke" I'm aware of... again, haven't really looked.

tl;dr: #2, documents, is real. Trump could have argued (incorrectly IMO) that he had a right to those documents, but did not. Instead he broke the law to hide and lie about them and colluded with others to do so. #1 and #3 are BS. Haven't looked at GA indictments.

 

[foszoe]

This explains your venom toward Trump far better than election fraud.

An excellent point by point post refutation

 

[SheepDog4Life]

This explains your venom toward Trump far better than election fraud.

Yup, as I said way back when... I was pissed as all **** that Trump lied out his *** about "stolen elections".

I believed him, initially, then checked the facts myself and concluded he's a lying liar who lies and has wrecked the lives of numerous people who believed in him.

And in his attempts at vengeance on those who didn't support his lies, and just plain temper-tantrums, handed the Dems keys to power... Biden's unfettered appointment of judges in the Senate, for example. He's a losing loser who continually loses elections... his and others'.

And then he attempted to "seize" the Presidency by ******* all over the Constitution... to have Pence "install" him as President re-elect.

NOPE! Never voting for him again... no way, no how.