Trump 2024 ???

[KG1]

Oh, look…it’s the Kraken. again.

Anybody can write a tweet full of confident proclamations about witch hunts and political weaponization of the courts, but if he’s so convinced the prosecution of Trump is bogus, why doesn’t he put his law license at risk to defend him? The president has a right to a competent defense, and his lawyers aren’t making these types of arguments.

Its almost like a bunch of bluster intended to bring attention to themselves rather than to help Trump win at trial.

Same goes for Alan Dershowitz and judicial watch…if they really believe the stuff they purport to, they need to step up, join Trumps legal team, and put their law license where their mouth is…or they need to STFU…that kind of rhetoric is deeply corrosive to the public trust.

Can you see how the prosecutorial timing of everything he describes to be a bit questionable to some and gives it the appearance of politicization?

 

[LeftyGunner]

Don't you think the timing of everything he describes to be a bit curious and gives it the appearance of politicization?

I mean, that’s certainly what he wants me to think…but I remain skeptical…Trump is exactly the kind of guy that would do the kinds of things he’s charged with.

How do you hold a politician accountable for criminal behavior without creating an appearance of politicization, though?

The President could run someone over in his corvette on live television and his supporters would claim that any attempt to bring criminal charges would be purely politically motivated.

Lets face it: the parties are not going to police themselves…not in this day and age. I’m fine with democrats investigating the republicans, and the republicans investigating the democrats…so long as any charges that get filed are grounded in fact and tried in public.

Politicians need to be held accountable. If they wont do it themselves, their foes will.

 

[KG1]

I mean, that’s certainly what he wants me to think…but I remain skeptical…Trump is exactly the kind of guy that would do the kinds of things he’s charged with.

How do you hold a politician accountable for criminal behavior without creating an appearance of politicization, though?

The President could run someone over in his corvette on live television and his supporters would claim that any attempt to bring criminal charges would be purely politically motivated.

Lets face it: the parties are not going to police themselves…not in this day and age. I’m fine with democrats investigating the republicans, and the republicans investigating the democrats…so long as any charges that get filed are grounded in fact and tried in public.

Politicians need to be held accountable. If they wont do it themselves, their foes will.

Would you not agree though that there is an element here designed to take out a leading political rival during a campaign and the timing of the indictment announcements right after damaging information is released about alleged Biden family corruption is designed to take the focus away from that therefore running further cover for them? I believe that many see all that as political strategery.

It also seems that things really got expedited after Trump announced his candidacy for 2024.

 

[LeftyGunner]

Would you not agree though that there is an element here designed to take out a leading political rival during a campaign and the timing of the indictment announcements right after damaging information is released about alleged Biden family corruption is designed to take the focus away from that therefore running further cover for them? I believe that many see all that as political strategery.

It also seems that things really got expedited after Trump announced his candidacy for 2024.

I understand that narrative exists, and that people believe it to be true.

I do not.

I think there is a really good reason to expedite charges after Trump announced his 2024 candidacy: the president is immune from criminal prosecution, and can pardon himself for any prior crimes.

If you are actually going to hold him accountable for his actions it has to be done before he can let himself off the hook.

 

[jamil]

I mean, that’s certainly what he wants me to think…but I remain skeptical…Trump is exactly the kind of guy that would do the kinds of things he’s charged with.

Is that any better proof of wrongdoing than Kraken?

How do you hold a politician accountable for criminal behavior without creating an appearance of politicization, though?

This is such an astonishingly easy question to answer. I think skepticism is good, but shouldn’t you also be curious?

Trump was impeached the first time for what ended up being Democrats making **** up. That Trump colluded with Russians to influence the 2016 election never happened. Democrats making up the Steele Dossier did happen. How are you holding them accountable for that? By voting for them?

Trump was impeached the second time for doing what Joe Biden actually did. How are you holding him accountable? By voting for him?

The way you prosecute a political figure without making it look partisan is you hold your own side exactly to the same standards, transparently. Tell me you believe they are with a clear conscience.

The President could run someone over in his corvette on live television and his supporters would claim that any attempt to bring criminal charges would be purely politically motivated.

Those are nutty ideologues. It’s hard to make those claims stick with sane people if you’re prosecuting every wrongdoer transparently and according to the same standards.

Lets face it: the parties are not going to police themselves…not in this day and age. I’m fine with democrats investigating the republicans, and the republicans investigating the democrats…so long as any charges that get filed are grounded in fact and tried in public.

Well, you’ve already tried Trump. You’re already assuring yourself of his guilt.

Politicians need to be held accountable. If they wont do it themselves, their foes will.

It starts with you. If you can’t pull the lever for the one crook, be consistent and don’t pull the lever for the other.

 

[KG1]

I understand that narrative exists, and that people believe it to be true.

I do not.

I think there is a really good reason to expedite charges after Trump announced his 2024 candidacy: the president is immune from criminal prosecution, and can pardon himself for any prior crimes.

If you are actually going to hold him accountable for his actions it has to be done before he can let himself off the hook.

I guess the overall point I'm trying to make is that I truly believe there would have been a different trajectory concerning the onslaught of indictments if he had not announced. Seems like you would agree with that. So IMO that makes it a political move to expedite it now. I'm not even sure some charges would have been brought if Trump would have just gone away.

 

[LeftyGunner]

Is that any better proof of wrongdoing than Kraken?

60 Lawsuits laughed out of every level of court in the nation versus three judicially uncontested criminal indictments

Are you serious?

This is such an astonishingly easy question to answer. I think skepticism is good, but shouldn’t you also be curious?

I am curious, and I know the damage that propaganda has on reasonable debate.

That tweet wasn’t posted to satisfy the curiosity of the academic…it was to persuade a right-wing audience to accept a criminal as their political messiah.

Trump was impeached the first time for what ended up being Democrats making **** up. That Trump colluded with Russians to influence the 2016 election never happened. Democrats making up the Steele Dossier did happen. How are you holding them accountable for that? By voting for them?

The first impeachment was a response to the Muller report, not the Steele dossier. The Steele dossier neither predicated the muller investigation nor provided the key facts underpinning the report

Oddly enough, thats all covered in the muller report.

Trump was impeached the second time for doing what Joe Biden actually did. How are you holding him accountable? By voting for him?

Are you suggesting joe did Jan 6?

Because the second impeachment was for January 6th.

The way you prosecute a political figure without making it look partisan is you hold your own side exactly to the same standards, transparently. Tell me you believe they are with a clear conscience.

I never claimed they are, because I dont believe they can be.

We are never going to get partisans to police themselves…the best hope we have is that they’ll police each other into some semblance of ethical Behavior...

….and I agree with you about transparency.

Those are nutty ideologues. It’s hard to make those claims stick with sane people if you’re prosecuting every wrongdoer transparently and according to the same standards.

And just where are all these sane people you refer to?

Well, you’ve already tried Trump. You’re already assuring yourself of his guilt.

Yeah, man…I’ve been watching the dude sleaze his way through life for 50 years now, he’s a crooked as they come.

It starts with you. If you can’t pull the lever for the one crook, be consistent and don’t pull the lever for the other.

Not a chance. I did that in 2016 and got Trump.

 

[jamil]

I guess the overall point I'm trying to make is that I truly believe there would have been a different trajectory concerning the onslaught of indictments if he had not announced. Seems like you would agree with that. So IMO that makes it a political move to expedite it now. I'm not even sure some charges would have been brought if Trump would have just gone away.

I’m pretty sure Trump sould not have been indicted if he would have stayed out if the race.

 

[Twangbanger]

I guess the overall point I'm trying to make is that I truly believe there would have been a different trajectory concerning the onslaught of indictments if he had not announced. Seems like you would agree with that. So IMO that makes it a political move to expedite it now. I'm not even sure some charges would have been brought if Trump would have just gone away.

Obviously desperation developed behind the charges, when Democrats began to see Trump's popularity was holding up among Republican voters. Do you remember the whoop of disgust among liberals when Alvin Bragg's office declined to prosecute him on the NY hush money thing a couple years ago? A couple members of his staff resigned in a high-profile huff. He had to walk that back, reconsider, and file charges later. Obviously, it was hoped that would scare Republican donors to DeSantis' camp, pump up his campaign, and convince Republican voters Trump can't win.

It didn't work, so now more charges are coming. People of progressively higher and higher stature are being called in by the Biden Administration to weigh in on Trump with charges of their own, in an effort to make the needle move.

It still hasn't worked. The polls hold firm. And Joe Biden can wake up any day with a stroke or something catastrophic, unable to function. Kamala Harris can't beat any Republican, and the Democrats know it. So the concern for Democrats begins to set in.

How confident are you FJB won't have a stroke in the next 15 months?

What were the odds on Ruth Bader Ginsburg...in 2019?

Now, it's evident one of these unlucky Democrat prosecutors is going to have to buckle up his belt, put his personal credibility and win/loss record on the line, and bring an actual case in court.

 

[KG1]

Obviously desperation developed behind the charges, when Democrats began to see Trump's popularity was holding up among Republican voters. Do you remember the whoop of disgust among liberals when Alvin Bragg's office declined to prosecute him on the NY hush money thing a couple years ago? A couple members of his staff resigned in a high-profile huff. He had to walk that back, reconsider, and file charges later. Obviously, it was hoped that would scare Republican donors to DeSantis' camp, pump up his campaign, and convince Republican voters Trump can't win.

It didn't work, so now more charges are coming. People of progressively higher and higher stature are being called in by the Biden Administration to weigh in on Trump with charges of their own, in an effort to make the needle move.

It still hasn't worked. The polls hold firm. And Joe Biden can wake up any day with a stroke or something catastrophic, unable to function. Kamala Harris can't beat any Republican, and the Democrats know it. So the concern for Democrats begins to set in.

How confident are you FJB won't have a stroke in the next 15 months?

What were the odds on Ruth Bader Ginsburg...in 2019?

Now, it's evident one of these unlucky Democrat prosecutors is going to have to buckle up his belt, put his personal credibility and win/loss record on the line, and bring an actual case in court.

I'm pretty sure that Bragg's decision to charge was a direct result of Trump announcing his candidacy.

 

[jamil]

60 Lawsuits laughed out of every level of court in the nation versus three judicially uncontested criminal indictments

Are you serious?

Yeah. That's not very convincing evidence that Trump is the criminal you believe him to be. I don't think he's a good person. I think he uses the courts to push his own way. Do something absurd that benefits him and let the courts decide, because who knows, he might win. The indictments aren't even evidence of being a criminal. Let's let it play out in court before deciding that, unless you have some other motive for wanting to see him go to jail.

Let me ask. Do you believe Joe Biden is any less a criminal than DJT? And I'm not saying DJT isn't a criminal. But I'd like to see a fair trial, which I'm not sure he'll be able to get.

I am curious, and I know the damage that propaganda has on reasonable debate.

That tweet wasn’t posted to satisfy the curiosity of the academic…it was to persuade a right-wing audience to accept a criminal as their political messiah.

I don't think you're very curious about the possibility that some things might be true that you don't like. What I said wasn't about the tweet. It was about the obvious difference in how this DoJ treats Democrats vs Republicans. How did Hunter Biden get a sweetheart deal that made him immune to future prosecution? If Donald Trump Jr did what Hunter Biden did, would this DoJ gone after him? ***damn straight.

But. since you brought it up. If you're curious, would you bother to look up the dates to see if what is alleged is true? I saw the same thing and thought, well, if true that seems like unlikely coincidences. I'm not gonna just believe it until I see it for myself. Since you get to say it, can I say that it's something Democrats would do.

The first impeachment was a response to the Muller report, not the Steele dossier. The Steele dossier neither predicated the muller investigation nor provided the key facts underpinning the report

Oddly enough, thats all covered in the muller report.

If there wasn't a Steele Dossier there would not have been a Muller investigation. The Muller report did not justify the impeachment. It was purely political theater.

Are you suggesting joe did Jan 6?

Because the second impeachment was for January 6th.


I never claimed they are, because I dont believe they can be.

We are never going to get partisans to police themselves…the best hope we have is that they’ll police each other into some semblance of ethical Behavior...

….and I agree with you about transparency.

Again. That's a copout. You think Trump is a criminal because he's being indicted, yet you agree that it's not past the indulgences of partisan people to do that to political enemies. So again, your solution is to throw up your hands and say, "Yeah. I don't like it. But whadyagonnado. At least the guy I don't like is going to jail well past his lifespan." And then you don't vote to hold your own accountable. I mean. Let's say they're both guilty. You gonna vote for the guy who sells influence to the highest bidder over the guy who took secret documents home as a souvenir?

And just where are all these sane people you refer to?

I'm not a Trumper, yet it's pretty easy for me to notice that the DoJ is weaponizing their prosecutorial power.

Yeah, man…I’ve been watching the dude sleaze his way through life for 50 years now, he’s a crooked as they come.

Or you could be full of ****. I do think Trump is sleazy. ****ing a porn star while your wife is pregnant is scraping bottom in terms of morality. Using your wealth and influence to get special treatment is sleazy. Now if you know of specific crimes he's actually committed that's one thing. But if you think that he's guilty of whatever the Biden DoJ can drum up, just because you think he's the kind of person who would do it, well that's obviously a standard you don't apply evenly now is it?

Not a chance. I did that in 2016 and got Trump.

Ya. Vote for the Democrat crook so that you don't get the Republican crook. You really need to stop saying you want to hold people accountable, because if that were true you would. Instead you stick your fingers in your ears so that you don't hear too much damning information about they guy you know you'll vote for to avoid the other guy.

 

[jamil]

Obviously desperation developed behind the charges, when Democrats began to see Trump's popularity was holding up among Republican voters. Do you remember the whoop of disgust among liberals when Alvin Bragg's office declined to prosecute him on the NY hush money thing a couple years ago? A couple members of his staff resigned in a high-profile huff. He had to walk that back, reconsider, and file charges later. Obviously, it was hoped that would scare Republican donors to DeSantis' camp, pump up his campaign, and convince Republican voters Trump can't win.

It didn't work, so now more charges are coming. People of progressively higher and higher stature are being called in by the Biden Administration to weigh in on Trump with charges of their own, in an effort to make the needle move.

It still hasn't worked. The polls hold firm. And Joe Biden can wake up any day with a stroke or something catastrophic, unable to function. Kamala Harris can't beat any Republican, and the Democrats know it. So the concern for Democrats begins to set in.

How confident are you FJB won't have a stroke in the next 15 months?

What were the odds on Ruth Bader Ginsburg...in 2019?

Now, it's evident one of these unlucky Democrat prosecutors is going to have to buckle up his belt, put his personal credibility and win/loss record on the line, and bring an actual case in court.

There is something else at play. As long as the polls hold where the number of voters who will vote for Trump if he's convicted is far less than 50%, I think they're good with Trump's support being what it is. If they can keep people convinced to stick their fingers in their ear about any evidence that Joe Biden sold influence abroad, and that Trump is any more a grifter than Biden, I think they like their chances.

 

[KG1]

Jack Smith has been known for applying novel applications of law in filing charges and he hasn't been very successful. These indictments are no different.

Another thing of note is with the sudden onslaught of indictments it increases the chances that the trials will be pushed back until after the election anyway because Trump will not have adequate time to mount a proper defense against all of them.

 

[jamil]

Jack Smith has been known for applying novel applications of law in filing charges and he hasn't been very successful. These indictments are no different.

Another thing of note is with the sudden onslaught of indictments it increases the chances that the trials will be pushed back until after the election anyway because Trump will not have adequate time to mount a proper defense against all of them.

It’s not a lot different from throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Jack Smith is among the federal prosecutors who've used sleazy tactics to win convictions and have been reversed more than a couple times. There's a reason federal prosecutors win most of their cases - they have many ways of cutting corners and sliding past their victim's rights to a fair trial.

That said, considering the complete lack of real evidence - rather than what was promised to be evidence that wasn't produced - in the Muller report; the ridiculously corrupt first impeachment, which - again - didn't produce any verifiable evidence to support it; followed by the even more ridiculous second impeachment, makes any further prosecution of Trump even more suspicious; especially since DOJ didn't prosecute Hillary for her egregious violations of handling of classified communications; Joe Biden's gross violation of classified document handling protocols BEFORE he was President; the whole "suppression of speech" debacle associated with the COVID scare, and now the revelations of his - and his family's - involvement in "pay for play" political favors, I remain skeptical that Trump has done anything worthy of indictment.

OTOH, I have to admit LG is correct about one thing; Trump would probably have to rape and murder a young child on the Capital Mall before I'd count out not voting for him, if he gets the Republican nomination. Not because I particularly am enthusiastic about him, but because the Deep State has been so blatantly determined to "get" him on SOMETHING for the past 8 years. And I'm tired of seeing that . . . stuff.

 

[Tombs]

OTOH, I have to admit LG is correct about one thing; Trump would probably have to rape and murder a young child on the Capital Mall before I'd count out not voting for him, if he gets the Republican nomination. Not because I particularly am enthusiastic about him, but because the Deep State has been so blatantly determined to "get" him on SOMETHING for the past 8 years. And I'm tired of seeing that . . . stuff.

Nothing would change my vote against democrats right now.

If anyone wonders why, just ask yourself where we'd be right now if hillary had won in 2016. I'm sorry for planting that bit of existential horror in your mind, but it needs to be remembered.

They also need to take the hint that they're ****ing psychotic, and until they come back to reality with a reasonable platform, they're going to be viewed as such.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Nothing would change my vote against democrats right now.

If anyone wonders why, just ask yourself where we'd be right now if hillary had won in 2016. I'm sorry for planting that bit of existential horror in your mind, but it needs to be remembered.

They also need to take the hint that they're ****ing psychotic, and until they come back to reality with a reasonable platform, they're going to be viewed as such.

The sad part is that roughly half the country either agrees with their psychotic behavior, or is willing to overlook it.

 

[KLB]

I bristle at “most”, but I’ll agree that they are just as reliable a source for corrosive rhetoric as their Republican foils.

It just doesn’t seem reasonable to me to expect unbiased rhetoric from any partisan.

They have kept up a pretty constant barrage of rhetoric against the Supreme Court for years. I can't think of anything the other side has done that comes close to that.

 

[jamil]

Jack Smith is among the federal prosecutors who've used sleazy tactics to win convictions and have been reversed more than a couple times. There's a reason federal prosecutors win most of their cases - they have many ways of cutting corners and sliding past their victim's rights to a fair trial.

That said, considering the complete lack of real evidence - rather than what was promised to be evidence that wasn't produced - in the Muller report; the ridiculously corrupt first impeachment, which - again - didn't produce any verifiable evidence to support it; followed by the even more ridiculous second impeachment, makes any further prosecution of Trump even more suspicious; especially since DOJ didn't prosecute Hillary for her egregious violations of handling of classified communications; Joe Biden's gross violation of classified document handling protocols BEFORE he was President; the whole "suppression of speech" debacle associated with the COVID scare, and now the revelations of his - and his family's - involvement in "pay for play" political favors, I remain skeptical that Trump has done anything worthy of indictment.

OTOH, I have to admit LG is correct about one thing; Trump would probably have to rape and murder a young child on the Capital Mall before I'd count out not voting for him, if he gets the Republican nomination. Not because I particularly am enthusiastic about him, but because the Deep State has been so blatantly determined to "get" him on SOMETHING for the past 8 years. And I'm tired of seeing that . . . stuff.

A big problem for Trump though, polling shows the support in the Republican Party dwindles if he's convicted. He will likely win the nomination still, but I suspect the average voter thinks like LG. Doesn't matter WTF Biden does. He could be selling secrets as the evidence suggests. They don't care. What Biden has going for him is that he's not Trump.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

A big problem for Trump though, polling shows the support in the Republican Party dwindles if he's convicted. He will likely win the nomination still, but I suspect the average voter thinks like LG. Doesn't matter WTF Biden does. He could be selling secrets as the evidence suggests. They don't care. What Biden has going for him is that he's not Trump.

Biden has TASS MSM covering for him... the "average" voter has no idea how dirty he is.

But, Dems will dump Biden like a Bernie-potato the second they see him not winning.

Second, the assumption is that the Trump indictments are "comprehensive", that Smith has expended all of his powder in the indicting documents. This is false.

Trump is too stupid to realize this... "There were no Iran documents, I made that up!" Boom! Updated indictment, here's the redacted Iran documents that were in Trump's possession AND an additional indictment for witness/evidence tampering, ordering an employee to delete subpoena'ed security camera footage... footage that showed his "hide the documents" shell game.

Well before the Bragg political prosecution indictment and well before Trump even announced, the Dems rope-a-dope strategy was fore-told... inflame Trump's base to get him nominated... he'll be crucified in the general and they will take complete control of Washington.

Whether they are right or not (they've been uber successful in 3 election cycles now running "against Trump"), this is exactly their game plan.