Training is too expensive

[jeremy]

This is not aimed to start a fight, but to follow this logic:
Think about how much you'd save if you just stayed at home and trained by playing Call of Duty?

It's also like saying that a Sniper is lesser trained than a Machine Gunner because he shoots less bullets.

I've seen way too many people just sling their reloads downrange and call it training. The quality of training will make up for the quantity of ammo. I realize money is tight, but invest in training, you'll gain dividends in your skill faster than the investment in reloads.

I have also seen persons pay large sums of money for instruction that I would not trust to use a Daisy Red Ryder without shooting their own eye out, even after attending several classes...

 

[cedartop]

I have also seen persons pay large sums of money for instruction that I would not trust to use a Daisy Red Ryder without shooting their own eye out, even after attending several classes...

Yes, Bishop and I have both seen this. Unfortunately I have worked with officers like this as well. Even the best instructor can't fix everyone.

 

[jeremy]

Yes, Bishop and I have both seen this. Unfortunately I have worked with officers like this as well. Even the best instructor can't fix everyone.

If you could, I bet you could charge a LOT more....

 

[U.S. Patriot]

This is not aimed to start a fight, but to follow this logic:
Think about how much you'd save if you just stayed at home and trained by playing Call of Duty?

It's also like saying that a Sniper is lesser trained than a Machine Gunner because he shoots less bullets.

I've seen way too many people just sling their reloads downrange and call it training. The quality of training will make up for the quantity of ammo. I realize money is tight, but invest in training, you'll gain dividends in your skill faster than the investment in reloads.

Sure, give me $600 or so and I'll go take some high dollar training course. I do train, and I just don't sling my reloads downrange. You don't need a "instructor" to train, and you don't need to spend a bunch of money to train either. I'm all for training, but just like anything else, you have to determine what is practical.

 

[Shay]

Sure, give me $600 or so and I'll go take some high dollar training course. I do train, and I just don't sling my reloads downrange. You don't need a "instructor" to train, and you don't need to spend a bunch of money to train either. I'm all for training, but just like anything else, you have to determine what is practical.

It doesn't take $600 to take a class. Yes, some classes cost that much (or more), but there are plenty of options that are much less expensive.

 

[henktermaat]

I have long said that there needs to be more training options in the sub $150 range. Above $200 is just too expensive for the majority of gunowners.

 

[henktermaat]

...aaaand it looks like the poll is agreeing with me.

 

[SERVED_USMC]

Only 5 of us voted for $251+! Really?!

You take an 8 hour class ( 7 hours w/ a 1 hour break for lunch) that costs $275 for the day. That breaks down to $39.28 per hour. Figure in the range cost that the company will pay, targets, stands and consumable items and you just ate up a decent amount of that money.

Then add another instructor or 2 to the mix and you just cut that in half again, per instructor. Im taking a 3 day class in Ohio this April that costs $665 for 3 days. This is a little less than the $251+ option, but there are a lot of classes out there that are more. This is just my personal example.
That's $31.66 per hour of instruction w/ 2 seasoned instructors. Thats $15.86 per hour, per instructor, per shooter.

I see that as more than fair for what you are getting.

 

[rugertoter]

This is strictly my opinion, but I think there is a bigger factor than cost. I think ego plays a big role. Most people on this site are men, and we all know that most every guy thinks he can fight, fornicate, and drive with the best of them. It's very hard for some people to accept that in that dire moment they will do anything but whip their pistol out and win the day. When they visualize needing a firearm it's a clear, static situation and they come out the victor. "Guy breaks into my house, I shoot him. Guy approaches me with a knife and demands my wallet, I shoot him. What's so hard about that?" Nobody pictures himself fumbling to get his pistol out of his IWB holster as the bad guy puts a round through his stomach. Nobody pictures someone stepping out from behind a corner with a gun in their face. I have not been in any kind of shootouts but I remember the first few fights I got into with bad guys. It definitely doesn't happen the way you picture it to happen when you're practicing or visualizing the situation. I'm sure it's the same way with a self defense shooting.

I would agree with that assessment.

 

[Shay]

I have long said that there needs to be more training options in the sub $150 range. Above $200 is just too expensive for the majority of gunowners.

And yet $500 guns don't seem too expensive.

 

[SERVED_USMC]

And yet $500 guns don't seem too expensive.

I see a lot of that with training and entry fees for matches as well.

You have $6,000 worth of rifle, pistol and shotgun in your cart, but dont want to spend the $225 on the entry fee for the match? Well, ok then.

 

[gregkl]

I see a lot of that with training and entry fees for matches as well.

You have $6,000 worth of rifle, pistol and shotgun in your cart, but dont want to spend the $225 on the entry fee for the match? Well, ok then.

What kind of match is $225? I thought the multi-gun matches at Wildcat Creek and the like were under $50, something like $25 maybe?

 

[SERVED_USMC]

What kind of match is $225? I thought the multi-gun matches at Wildcat Creek and the like were under $50, something like $25 maybe?

Any major pretty much.

I think the most reasonable one that I shot this year was the AR15.com Pro/Am and it was $125. It will cost me $250 next year because I will be shooting the pro side. CMMG Midwest Championships was $225, I believe.

Superstition Mountain is $275

MGM Iron Man is around $450, with a 1000+ round count

Blue Ridge Mountain is $375 or so.

Worth every penny.

 

[NIFT]

Up here in Fort Wayne, my wife and I took Basic Pistol ($115) with Bob Aldridge BEFORE we got our first gun and I recently completed his Advanced Personal Protection course ($110) and I think both were an extraordinary value. For the cost of a few cases of ammo I learned quite a bit and also had quite a lot fun, it's had a very positive effect on my personal practice time. I would still feel like I got a good value (especially on the Advanced Protection) even at a good increase from what I paid. Frankly I couldn't believe it was that inexpensive.

I'm definitely not a guy who's rolling in it either, I'm working as a part time IT contractor while going to school again (and my wife doesn't work), so if I could come up with it and be happy with what I got I think most people could too. Shooting certainly isn't the least expensive activity, so paying a small percentage of the overall cost on learning how to defend yourself as effectively as possible is just plain stupid not to do.

Obviously it's going to depend a lot on what's being taught and course length, but I would be pretty comfortable paying around $200 for a group one day class and upwards of $450+ for one on one.

Thanks, so much--makes my week!
Hmmm...maybe I need to raise the prices
No price increases for 2013, and adding two more extremely qualifed, experienced, and credentialed instructors. Schedules will be uploaded very soon.

 

[gregkl]

Any major pretty much.

I think the most reasonable one that I shot this year was the AR15.com Pro/Am and it was $125. It will cost me $250 next year because I will be shooting the pro side. CMMG Midwest Championships was $225, I believe.

Superstition Mountain is $275

MGM Iron Man is around $450, with a 1000+ round count

Blue Ridge Mountain is $375 or so.

Worth every penny.

Ah, okay. I was worried that I was going to set my sights on a multi-gun match locally next year only to find out that the barrier to entry is too high. I won't ever be that good to do a major!

 

[irishfan]

And yet $500 guns don't seem too expensive.

I agree with where you are going with that statement completely. The problem is that the vast majority will never look at it the way you are meaning it. Whether it is firearms or matchbox cars people want to have something in their hands not just technique in their head. It is much easier to justify spending $500+ on another G19 rather then on two classes on how to use it to better protect themselves and others. Your classes aren't that pricey but fill up quick so more of us can't get in them when we want so I will spend my money on ammo or put toward another M&P for next year. If I want to take a class and am willing to put out money then it is a real turn off to me if I can't get into it and am forced to wait or probably pass until someone else offers it.

My issue with classes isn't so much initial cost but when you factor in the class like the one I am taking at TR next year it adds up quick.

Class....450
Ammo....250
Gas/food...150+
Lodging....200

I am going to be in the class for at least $1k unless I can get free lodging which still puts me in the $800 range. This is my Christmas gift to myself but will be the only class I travel to next year.

 

[bwframe]

I agree with where you are going with that statement completely. The problem is that the vast majority will never look at it the way you are meaning it. Whether it is firearms or matchbox cars people want to have something in their hands not just technique in their head. It is much easier to justify spending $500+ on another G19 rather then on two classes on how to use it to better protect themselves and others. Your classes aren't that pricey but fill up quick so more of us can't get in them when we want so I will spend my money on ammo or put toward another M&P for next year. If I want to take a class and am willing to put out money then it is a real turn off to me if I can't get into it and am forced to wait or probably pass until someone else offers it.

My issue with classes isn't so much initial cost but when you factor in the class like the one I am taking at TR next year it adds up quick.

Class....450
Ammo....250
Gas/food...150+
Lodging....200

I am going to be in the class for at least $1k unless I can get free lodging which still puts me in the $800 range. This is my Christmas gift to myself but will be the only class I travel to next year.

I have yet to find a way to work long distance traveling to training costs into my budget. After a fair amount of all weekend classes locally, I find that I much prefer one day classes that I can drive to and back from. The exception would be to support a two day class from an out of state instructor.

I'm happy to let the local instructors do the high dollar training to bring back to me locally for a much better price. Besides that, supporting the local folks encourages them to host the bigger outfits locally.

 

[Shay]

Your classes aren't that pricey but fill up quick so more of us can't get in them when we want so I will spend my money on ammo or put toward another M&P for next year. If I want to take a class and am willing to put out money then it is a real turn off to me if I can't get into it and am forced to wait or probably pass until someone else offers it.

My Q1 2013 schedule is now posted. If there are classes you want to take, register early so that you have a spot. Not all my classes fill up, but it's becoming more common.

 

[SERVED_USMC]

Ah, okay. I was worried that I was going to set my sights on a multi-gun match locally next year only to find out that the barrier to entry is too high. I won't ever be that good to do a major!

Local matches will rarely get above $35. Never say never. You will be wanting to go to a major before you know it. When you get to see the fun you have by attending a match that last 3-4 hours, you start to wonder what a match that runs 3 days is like.

 

[gregkl]

Local matches will rarely get above $35. Never say never. You will be wanting to go to a major before you know it. When you get to see the fun you have by attending a match that last 3-4 hours, you start to wonder what a match that runs 3 days is like.

Touche' Yeah, I do tend to really get into something once I start showing an interest. This is what my wife is fearing.