Training is too expensive

[9mmfan]

I'm a single father with a single income. Money is my main issue. I am effectively in the working poor category. By the time I pay and pay and pay out, there is not much left. For the most part, most of my guns have been purchased using lay away. I occasionally splurge around tax return time, but that mainly means bulk ammo purchases.

I am, however looking into taking a Intro to Defensive Handgun Level 1 course offered at Kodiak Range in South Bend this coming spring.

We'll see if anything around the house breaks before then.

 

[SaintsNSinners]

My Problem with all these so called trainers and and training programs are that they are so far out of reach of the poor people. With the trainers throwing so much of their cost in fee's. Website, Coffee, printed ad's, Im sure the making of their youtube videos is included. It kind of gives me the feeling that the training they give really isnt worth the value if they cant rely on reviews and past participant word of mouth.

I found Indy Trading Post, Beech Grove Firearms, INGO and Guy Relford all by word of mouth; and frankly all of those recieved rave reviews hence why I continue to do business or interact with them.

150 dollars a day not including ammo,gas,lodging,food, and incidentals is 1/4 of my biweekly paycheck.

Some of the best "Training" comes free from other shooters or range officers at the range. I took my girl to Eagle Creek for the 1st time not to long ago, ran her through the fundamentals, When she got on the line and started shooting I noticed a few corrections that needed to be made but before I could get up there A Range officer and another shooter where popping in to help her with the same issues I noticed.

 

[Shay]

Nobody's getting rich by training. Nobody.

There are a handful of full time trainers who make a decent living, but not many. Those guys are also the ones who market themselves and their companies relentlessly.

I've said it before. It takes a lot of work besides just teaching classes to keep a training business profitable.

Training will always be too expensive if you don't believe it has value.

 

[SaintsNSinners]

Nobody's getting rich by training. Nobody.

There are a handful of full time trainers who make a decent living, but not many. Those guys are also the ones who market themselves and their companies relentlessly.

I've said it before. It takes a lot of work besides just teaching classes to keep a training business profitable.

Training will always be too expensive if you don't believe it has value.

That isnt true. They are getting rich off of it. Where do all these SBR's, Class 3 items come from?

10 person class at 150 a pop is 1500 dollars, 1500 and 5 days of work is? 7500 dollars a week. Or make it a 5 person class. Tell me again how 7500 or 3500 a week isnt getting rich? As a full time EMT I didnt even make that kind of money.

SO Lets say a business has expenses. 1000 a month for cheap building "rent", 500 a month in utilites, 100 bucks in paper targets.

Total expense's $1600 a month. Total revenue $12400 Factor in an instructor hiring in a couple mediocre lackeys to change targets and empty the trash call that 2k a month in wages..

$10,000 take home a month

Man thats a tidy bit of pocket change I need to get into that racket.

 

[Shay]

That isnt true. They are getting rich off of it. Where do all these SBR's, Class 3 items come from?

10 person class at 150 a pop is 1500 dollars, 1500 and 5 days of work is? 7500 dollars a week. Or make it a 5 person class. Tell me again how 7500 or 3500 a week isnt getting rich? As a full time EMT I didnt even make that kind of money.

SO Lets say a business has expenses. 1000 a month for cheap building "rent", 500 a month in utilites, 100 bucks in paper targets.

Total expense's $1600 a month. Total revenue $12400 Factor in an instructor hiring in a couple mediocre lackeys to change targets and empty the trash call that 2k a month in wages..

$10,000 take home a month

Man thats a tidy bit of pocket change I need to get into that racket.

It's amazingly easy to get rich. You should do it.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

I would have to save for an entire year to go to one training session, at the cost of some of these classes. I only work part time, because I go to school full time. Lets say a class is $300. Figure in gas, food, lodging, ammo, etc. That gets expensive quick. Not everyone has that kind of money, or time really. Which excludes a lot of people. If there where more classes at a lower cost, I think a lot more people would train. One reason I started attending run and gun events. It's not official training, but it's training, and I don't have to spend a bunch of money to do so.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

I just took a NRA basic pistol course for $110. It was honestly a waste other than it being cost-of-doing-business for me to apply for my FL CCW.

I think this is very dependent on many details not given in the original question, and you also have the 'get-what-you-pay-for' factor. Therefore I will vote somewhere in the middle.

You learned nothing? What is your experience? I have Military experience and have been shooting for some time. I took the PPITH NRA class offered by Vert. Which is a basic class. I walked away with new found knowledge about myself. Static range shooting will undo most of any real training you have had over time. I know this from first hand experience. Maybe you where too close minded when you took the class.

 

[Coach]

That isnt true. They are getting rich off of it. Where do all these SBR's, Class 3 items come from?

10 person class at 150 a pop is 1500 dollars, 1500 and 5 days of work is? 7500 dollars a week. Or make it a 5 person class. Tell me again how 7500 or 3500 a week isnt getting rich? As a full time EMT I didnt even make that kind of money.

SO Lets say a business has expenses. 1000 a month for cheap building "rent", 500 a month in utilites, 100 bucks in paper targets.

Total expense's $1600 a month. Total revenue $12400 Factor in an instructor hiring in a couple mediocre lackeys to change targets and empty the trash call that 2k a month in wages..

$10,000 take home a month

Man thats a tidy bit of pocket change I need to get into that racket.

What is stopping you?

 

[Coach]

I think for a group class, $50-100 would be about right. And that should include handouts or access to notes and someone who is good at training and interacting with people.

.

There are classes in this price range and format.

 

[Coach]

I just took a NRA basic pistol course for $110. It was honestly a waste other than it being cost-of-doing-business for me to apply for my FL CCW.
.

What were the specifics that you did not like? What was missing?

 

[Pitmaster]

I voted $200+ for a one day plus and feel that is definitely reasonable for a group class. I would rather pay $50-75 an hour for individual training over several weeks or months though.

 

[Bruenor]

Training will always be too expensive if you don't believe it has value.

It comes down to a conversation about priorities.

I know some people who pay $150+ a month on their cable bill. I don't have a cable bill, I have Netflix instead. That's around $20, since I also get DVDs.

I do have a cell phone, but it's a basic phone. No smart phone, no data package, limited number of minutes. A coworker of mine pays $250 for his family cell phone plan. The kids have smart phones, and they are in elementary school. I pay $88 for my wife and myself.

I don't eat out very often. My family budget for eating out during the month is $35. And since my home internet is out right now, I'm sitting in a McDonalds getting ready to do some work, so the $1.08 for the drink that I bought comes out of that budget.

My point here is that I pinch pennies and save nickels in order to purchase those things that are important to me. Cable, a smart phone, and eating out isn't important to me. My safety and the safety of my family is. Too often I hear people say, "I don't have money for that," while they get their Starbucks coffee and surf the web on their phone. They do have money, they just choose how to spend it.

Granted, there are people out there that may not have money for training. To those, I wonder if they have a written budget each month. My wife and I just started doing this. For November, we've planned out exactly what we want to spend, dividing my paycheck into categories. Now, since this is the first month I expect that we'll need to adjust it as we go, but it keeps us accountable to a plan. And, yes, training is in my budget.

You can be slave to your money, or you can decide what you want it to do for you. If you are a slave to it, you will always be saying, "I don't have enough money for that." If, instead, you tell your money what to do, your attitude will switch to, "I have a plan and I'm saving for that. I will reach that goal in X months."

 

[gregkl]

It comes down to a conversation about priorities.

I know some people who pay $150+ a month on their cable bill. I don't have a cable bill, I have Netflix instead. That's around $20, since I also get DVDs.

I do have a cell phone, but it's a basic phone. No smart phone, no data package, limited number of minutes. A coworker of mine pays $250 for his family cell phone plan. The kids have smart phones, and they are in elementary school. I pay $88 for my wife and myself.

I don't eat out very often. My family budget for eating out during the month is $35. And since my home internet is out right now, I'm sitting in a McDonalds getting ready to do some work, so the $1.08 for the drink that I bought comes out of that budget.

My point here is that I pinch pennies and save nickels in order to purchase those things that are important to me. Cable, a smart phone, and eating out isn't important to me. My safety and the safety of my family is. Too often I hear people say, "I don't have money for that," while they get their Starbucks coffee and surf the web on their phone. They do have money, they just choose how to spend it.

Granted, there are people out there that may not have money for training. To those, I wonder if they have a written budget each month. My wife and I just started doing this. For November, we've planned out exactly what we want to spend, dividing my paycheck into categories. Now, since this is the first month I expect that we'll need to adjust it as we go, but it keeps us accountable to a plan. And, yes, training is in my budget.

You can be slave to your money, or you can decide what you want it to do for you. If you are a slave to it, you will always be saying, "I don't have enough money for that." If, instead, you tell your money what to do, your attitude will switch to, "I have a plan and I'm saving for that. I will reach that goal in X months."

For some reason, your avatar does not match the level of intellect you write about here. Good points!

My wife an I live cheap so I can afford to spend some on my gun hobby! But I don't have to worry like the folks on here who say that 1911's and AR's multiply once you get your first. One will have to suit me.

 

[gregkl]

There are classes in this price range and format.

And I will take a class if I hear a good endorsement and it comes with some sort of satisfaction guarantee. I would like to learn to shoot my 1911 better, gain better target acquisition skills, proper grip, etc.

I want to try some IDPA and maybe multi-gun next year and frankly I am very intimidated by it when I watch it.

 

[turnandshoot4]

I agree. There is a difference between training and practice.

People often use the word "training" for what is actually "practice".

I disagree with your concept of training. I realize new things everytime I "practice." The camera, other shooters etc. Etc. Teach me new things every time I "practice." There is a level of self awareness to this, you have to listen to what others are telling you.

If "training" is out of your comfort zone then I would assume you mean outside of the home with videos. Realistically this is what MOST can afford. $40 for a dvd, range fee, and ammo wipes out their gun budget. To train with the big names is big money. Their experience and teaching style is what I want, but it is cost prohibitive to do. Would I learn more with 1.5k of ammo on my own? For now, I say yes. I can work basic moving and shooting, reloads, sight alignment, draw, transitions, etc. Etc. You bring something others can't, Shay. I can't shoot at other people with something other than a retarted paintball gun. This is why I feel your training holds merits over any carbine 1,2, handgun 1,2 class out there. I can work those drills on my own. I refuse to pay hundreds of dollars for "that one nugget" that I might get from a class.

What the training guys can't wrap their head around is most gun owners DON'T WANT TO TRAIN. It isn't a money, time, or anything else issue. They don't care. Don't believe me? Go to a section here titled "classifieds" and see who the majority of gun owners are.

 

[jblomenberg16]

To some extent we have to consider how people look at pricing.

If ammo was advertised as $99 vs. $101, you would look at the $99 and say "sweet...it is less than a hundred bucks!" but if priced at $101 you'd say "I dunno...it is over a hundred dollars...I'll wait to see if it comes down."

That pricing technique is pretty common in our world today as many of us have seen first hand with gasoline, candybars, etc. Lots of stuff comes to $xx.99, or $x,999 , etc.


That being said, for classes and other events, people are probably less swayed by the "99 pricing" and now have more desire to not have to make change. So, if training is $100, that is a crisp $100 bill, 5 $20's, or some other combination that is easy to do.


Personally I voted for the $51-$100 range for that reason, and for the fact that is slightly more than I'd pay for typical entertainment, but less than I'd pay for a major purchase. The punchline is that I'd have to conciously decide that the training was a worthwhile investment, but would still be in a spending catagorie that wouldn't have me thinking about it too long and hard, to where I might talk myself out of it.

 

[BravoMike]

I just took a NRA basic pistol course for $110. It was honestly a waste other than it being cost-of-doing-business for me to apply for my FL CCW.

I think this is very dependent on many details not given in the original question, and you also have the 'get-what-you-pay-for' factor. Therefore I will vote somewhere in the middle.

Why did you decide to do the NRA Basic Pistol? It is my understanding that FL is very open about the type of training that you get.

 

[bwframe]

OK, here is a challenge to all who are complaining about the cost of training;
Post up an inventory of all your firearms and related gear.

Pretty simple eh, just that. Let's do it.

 

[BravoMike]

OK, here is a challenge to all who are complaining about the cost of training;
Post up an inventory of all your firearms and related gear.

Pretty simple eh, just that. Let's do it.

Not entirely a bad idea, however this thread has gotten kinda long as it is. I think you might get more involvement by starting a new thread.

 

[bwframe]

Not entirely a bad idea, however this thread has gotten kinda long as it is. I think you might get more involvement by starting a new thread.

Thanks for the advise! Feel free to start another thread if you like (and post us a link.) I'm good with hearing from the naysayers who are already invested in this thread.