To those who say Republicans are no different than Democrats

[Trooper]

Do you really believe the tripe you're spewing here?

Yes. And I have been doing politics for a long time. Even with military service.

I know how the system works. And I was there when they screwed with it. The reason that they stacked the system was that conservatives were going after party chairmen here in Indiana even in the 1970s. Chairmen, mostly establishment types, did not want to have to fight the grassroots every two years. So they stacked the deck. Thank Bert Sweezey the Marion Co chairman for writing the new rules then pushing them through the legislature. We never had a chance to fight the bill.

The Tea Party is just the most recent group to organize. But friends did in the 1980s and were very effective. What we failed to understand was how corrupted the average voter had become. Especially democrat voters. The evilness that you see in Obama is reflected in the hearts of those who vote for him.

Yes I believe what I am saying. I also believe that if you are principled then it is worth your life, it is not only worth dying for but killing if so needed. I hope that we never get to the level.

 

[jbombelli]

So if I'm principled, I have to demonstrate that by shooting democrats BEFORE the collapse they and the Republicans are bringing us actually happens? You really, truly believe that ridiculous argument?

You know, following your logic, one should probably go out and shoot some Republicans too since they're equally culpable for our current mess.

Instead of resorting to violence I choose to speak my mind. I choose to try and educate the blinded fools who naively still think the Republicans will fix everything, while I still can. The Democrats are a lost cause.

Once the killing really starts it's all over. Everything. Over.

 

[Trooper]

So if I'm principled, I have to demonstrate that by shooting democrats BEFORE the collapse they and the Republicans are bringing us actually happens? You really, truly believe that ridiculous argument?

You know, following your logic, one should probably go out and shoot some Republicans too since they're equally culpable for our current mess.

Instead of resorting to violence I choose to speak my mind. I choose to try and educate the blinded fools who naively still think the Republicans will fix everything, while I still can.

But rest assured if there's a real collapse my list of "things to do" is pretty long.

Deal with the blinded fools on the left. Speak you mind to DEMOCRATS! Stop wasting you time blaming republicans for what the left is doing.

Go after the news media. And the universities.

The libertarian party is a party of losers, of fools who believe that they are morally superior. The worst thing to ever have happened to libertarianism to have formed a party.

All you are doing is running your mouth. It like some pot smoking hippie back in the 60s.

 

[armedindy]

 

[jbombelli]

Deal with the blinded fools on the left. Speak you mind to DEMOCRATS! Stop wasting you time blaming republicans for what the left is doing.

Go after the news media. And the universities.

The libertarian party is a party of losers, of fools who believe that they are morally superior. The worst thing to ever have happened to libertarianism to have formed a party.

All you are doing is running your mouth. It like some pot smoking hippie back in the 60s.

I DO speak my mind to Democrats too. You don't see it because there aren't many democrats around here on INGO. But they have shown themselves to be a lost cause. Truly, a lost cause. It results in the same ad absurdum and ad hominem I get from the likes of YOU.

I blame Republicans for what REPUBLICANS have done. For what they've agreed to in a spirit of bipartisan cooperation. For the legislation they've brought us. For the candidates they've put up. For all the times they shown themselves to be enemies of freedom, just like the Democrats.

You blame libertarians and Democrats for the failures of the Republicans, while the Democrats blame libertarians and Republicans for the failures of Democrats.

All you guys in both major parties do is f' things up and point your fingers at everyone else. Take some responsibility for what your party does for once. Stop blaming everyone else. It's YOUR fault our country is in this mess. YOU vote for it.

 

[AutomationEngineer]

How do you win a war with 100% certainty and profit handsomely all the while?









You run both sides of the war. To quote a movie that I was suprised that it was even allowed to be released;

"There are no Democrats or Republicans, conservatives or liberals, there are the have's and the have not's. Now you are either on the inside, or you are on the outside."

Right in front of everybody and no one even blinked.

 

[Trooper]

I DO speak my mind to Democrats too. You don't see it because there aren't many democrats around here on INGO. But they have shown themselves to be a lost cause. Truly, a lost cause. It results in the same ad absurdum and ad hominem I get from the likes of YOU.

I blame Republicans for what REPUBLICANS have done. For what they've agreed to in a spirit of bipartisan cooperation. For the legislation they've brought us. For the candidates they've put up. For all the times they shown themselves to be enemies of freedom, just like the Democrats.

You blame libertarians and Democrats for the failures of the Republicans, while the Democrats blame libertarians and Republicans for the failures of Democrats.

All you guys in both major parties do is f' things up and point your fingers at everyone else. Take some responsibility for what your party does for once. Stop blaming everyone else. It's YOUR fault our country is in this mess. YOU vote for it.

Yeah, condemn all conservatives because we fight a rigged system. The same system that will never all a libertarian to win. The libertarian party is a trap designed to keep you wasting your time, fighting at windmills.

We conservatives have been fighting this problem far longer than you have ever voted. I have given you, several times, the facts on how this mess came about. Do you think that I like Romney or McCain? I supported Herman Cain in the last election and you saw what they did to him.

In 2016 the goal is to only have one conservative candidate. That way we can unify early. And we need to close the primary system so that democrats can not vote in our elections. That way we head off a weak establishment type.

Hopefully the democrats will be split between Hillary and Joe Biden thus their voters can not afford to vote in republican primaries.

If I knew how to get the establishment types out of the republicans, I would do it. But then I would have the insights into how to squash the libertarians, forcing them back into the republicans. And I would know who to destroy the democrats, especially the leftwing kooks.

But I do not have those insights. Other than it is going to take an act of G-D clean up this mess.

 

[KLB]

No what everyone is saying is that it is too easy for an establishment candidate to win with a third of the vote in a primary. Especially if the democrats can cross over and vote in the GOP primaries. The dems want a weak republican, ie an establishment types, so that their guy can win.

And the dems stack their primaries so that they only have one candidate running.!

Huh? Did you ignore the Democratic Primary in 2008? It was the closest primary I can remember for either party.

Seems both parties have their candidate picked before the primaries and ram that candidate down their voters throats.

 

[Trooper]

How do you win a war with 100% certainty and profit handsomely all the while?


You run both sides of the war. To quote a movie that I was suprised that it was even allowed to be released;

"There are no Democrats or Republicans, conservatives or liberals, there are the have's and the have not's. Now you are either on the inside, or you are on the outside."

Right in front of everybody and no one even blinked.

The problem is that with the shift from an Industrial Age society to an Information Age society, it has destroyed the working class guy who did not have an education (college) but made a great income in the factories. We still have a middle class, one made up of professional (engineers, teachers, lawyers, CPAs, doctors) and creative class people. But the workers have be reduced to poverty unless they are skilled trades.

The same thing happened in the Industrial Revolution (1660 through 1750) as people were "harvested" from the farms and brought to the cities. Then, over time, they grew to have a measure of prosperity.

The Old Money is mostly progressives now days thanks to being educated at Ivy League schools like Harvard or Yale. Plus the Old Money is tied up in tax free foundations. Look at how the Ford family is heavily into progressive causes (Ford Foundation funds a wide spectrum of leftwing causes). The Old Money controls the dems then uses pressure on the establishment types in the GOP.

What this does not account for is that there is a huge grassroots movement among conservatives and libertarians as expressed in groups like the Tea Party. As we are now finding out, the left was able to silence the Tea Party in the 2012 elections. That will not be the case in 2014. And I hope things evolve so that they have even more influence in 2016.

Think of how the GOP primaries might have been had Obama not used the IRS to silence Tea Party groups during 2012. Romney might not have won. And the Obama people wanted a weak candidate to run against.

 

[Trooper]

Huh? Did you ignore the Democratic Primary in 2008? It was the closest primary I can remember for either party.

Seems both parties have their candidate picked before the primaries and ram that candidate down their voters throats.

Yet Hillary was the chosen one, not Obama.

The establishment had two candidates in 2008, McCain and Romney. But the conservatives had too many. Same in 2012, one establishment (Romney) and 15 conservative or libertarians. The republicans did not pre-select Romney, but the deck was stacked by a handful of establishment types. The majority of the party was split. Thus the minority got its way.

Rush Limbaugh has done a great job on taking those elections apart and showing how the establishment stacked the deck. The establishment types are able to campaign against conservatives but are weak against a leftwinger.

But I am thinking that many of you here are limited in education and can not understand what happened. Too many low information voters.

 

[jbombelli]

Yeah, condemn all conservatives because we fight a rigged system. The same system that will never all a libertarian to win. The libertarian party is a trap designed to keep you wasting your time, fighting at windmills.

We conservatives have been fighting this problem far longer than you have ever voted. I have given you, several times, the facts on how this mess came about. Do you think that I like Romney or McCain? I supported Herman Cain in the last election and you saw what they did to him.

In 2016 the goal is to only have one conservative candidate. That way we can unify early. And we need to close the primary system so that democrats can not vote in our elections. That way we head off a weak establishment type.

Hopefully the democrats will be split between Hillary and Joe Biden thus their voters can not afford to vote in republican primaries.

If I knew how to get the establishment types out of the republicans, I would do it. But then I would have the insights into how to squash the libertarians, forcing them back into the republicans. And I would know who to destroy the democrats, especially the leftwing kooks.

But I do not have those insights. Other than it is going to take an act of G-D clean up this mess.

You don't really fight against a rigged system. You give in and allow the rigged system to have its way with you by giving it your vote after it f's you. You supported the candidate of your choice and when the rigged system said "no", you said "okay" and went along with it. They see you as the girl who starts out saying "no" but after a few sweet nothings in her ear says "okay, as long as you respect me in the morning." And as you know, that girl is NEVER respected in the morning.

You want to know how to get the establishment types out of the GOP? You want to know how to get the libertarians back in? I'll tell you. You walk away from them. You make them aware that if they ever want to win again, they have to come to YOU. Don't give in and vote for the Romneys, the McCains or the Gingriches or whatever other BS fake conservative they put up. Stop voting for turd #1 just to vote against turd #2. This is really the only way.

If you aren't willing to make a stand then you're as much a part of the problem as the corrupt establishment types you complain about.

 

[Trooper]

You don't really fight against a rigged system. You give in and allow the rigged system to have its way with you by giving it your vote after it f's you. You supported the candidate of your choice and when the rigged system said "no", you said "okay" and went along with it. They see you as the girl who starts out saying "no" but after a few sweet nothings in her ear says "okay, as long as you respect me in the morning." And as you know, that girl is NEVER respected in the morning.

You want to know how to get the establishment types out of the GOP? You want to know how to get the libertarians back in? I'll tell you. You walk away from them. You make them aware that if they ever want to win again, they have to come to YOU. Don't give in and vote for the Romneys, the McCains or the Gingriches or whatever other BS fake conservative they put up. Stop voting for turd #1 just to vote against turd #2. This is really the only way.

If you aren't willing to make a stand then you're as much a part of the problem as the corrupt establishment types you complain about.

will not work. That is what happened in 2012, a large percentage of conservatives walked way. Did not force the establishment types out. Only gave them an excuse to blame conservatives and say that the GOP needs to be more like the dems.

Most of us did not vote for the establishment types in the primary. Romney won with very little of the primary vote.

And look at how the establishment types here backstabbed the conservatives over defeating Lugar. They all voted for Donnelly, attempting the same tactic you recommend but in reverse.

The only way to get the establishment types out of the GOP is to defeat their candidates in the primaries.

 

[El-Cigarro]

You don't really fight against a rigged system. You give in and allow the rigged system to have its way with you by giving it your vote after it f's you. You supported the candidate of your choice and when the rigged system said "no", you said "okay" and went along with it. They see you as the girl who starts out saying "no" but after a few sweet nothings in her ear says "okay, as long as you respect me in the morning." And as you know, that girl is NEVER respected in the morning.

You want to know how to get the establishment types out of the GOP? You want to know how to get the libertarians back in? I'll tell you. You walk away from them. You make them aware that if they ever want to win again, they have to come to YOU. Don't give in and vote for the Romneys, the McCains or the Gingriches or whatever other BS fake conservative they put up. Stop voting for turd #1 just to vote against turd #2. This is really the only way.

If you aren't willing to make a stand then you're as much a part of the problem as the corrupt establishment types you complain about.

In the meantime, the Libs/Dems walk away with all the marbles. Hard fought for RIGHTS are hard to win back, once they're lost.....

 

[jbombelli]

will not work. That is what happened in 2012, a large percentage of conservatives walked way. Did not force the establishment types out. Only gave them an excuse to blame conservatives and say that the GOP needs to be more like the dems.

Most of us did not vote for the establishment types in the primary. Romney won with very little of the primary vote.

And look at how the establishment types here backstabbed the conservatives over defeating Lugar. They all voted for Donnelly, attempting the same tactic you recommend but in reverse.

The only way to get the establishment types out of the GOP is to defeat their candidates in the primaries.

You're taking too short-term a view of this. This is not the kind of change you create within one election cycle. The Republican Party won't figure this out in one election. It's going to take several. They have to lose, and they have to lose big. They have to see that they will never win again until they return to their conservative base. This is going to be a hard lesson for them to learn, and it's going to take a bit of time to pound it through their thick heads. They need to see in no uncertain terms that moving more left won't help them. They need to see that the only way they'll win again is to move back to where they belong.

You aren't going to defeat their candidates in the primaries. You tried that last time and got Romney as a result. They even changed the rules to MAKE SURE you can't beat their candidates in the primaries. All you have left, if you really want to change them, is to walk away from them and let them die the strangling death they deserve for turning their backs on the principles upon which they built themselves.

And Mourdock probably would have beaten Donnelly if he wasn't such an idiot. He cost himself that election.

In the meantime, the Libs/Dems walk away with all the marbles. Hard fought for RIGHTS are hard to win back, once they're lost.....

Nobody said it was going to be an easy one-election fix. This kind of fight takes years. Decades. Voting for Rights-limiting turd (R) just to vote against Rights-limiting turd (D) is no solution. All you're doing is rewarding the system you rail against.

You have to stop doing that if you want to force them to actually CHANGE.

 

[El-Cigarro]

You're taking too short-term a view of this. This is not the kind of change you create within one election cycle. The Republican Party won't figure this out in one election. It's going to take several. They have to lose, and they have to lose big. They have to see that they will never win again until they return to their conservative base. This is going to be a hard lesson for them to learn, and it's going to take a bit of time to pound it through their thick heads. They need to see in no uncertain terms that moving more left won't help them. They need to see that the only way they'll win again is to move back to where they belong.

You aren't going to defeat their candidates in the primaries. You tried that last time and got Romney as a result. They even changed the rules to MAKE SURE you can't beat their candidates in the primaries. All you have left, if you really want to change them, is to walk away from them and let them die the strangling death they deserve for turning their backs on the principles upon which they built themselves.

And Mourdock probably would have beaten Donnelly if he wasn't such an idiot. He cost himself that election.




Nobody said it was going to be an easy one-election fix. This kind of fight takes years. Decades. Voting for Rights-limiting turd (R) just to vote against Rights-limiting turd (D) is no solution. All you're doing is rewarding the system you rail against.

You have to stop doing that if you want to force them to actually CHANGE.

Sorry, J. I ain't got "Decades" to live! If you want to live out your life under the thumb of Liberals, while voting for guys who can't win, that's YOUR lookout..... Far as I'M concerned, this discussion is over.

 

[jbombelli]

Sorry, J. I ain't got "Decades" to live! If you want to live out your life under the thumb of Liberals, while voting for guys who can't win, that's YOUR lookout.....

Remind me again how much the Republican Party has done for all of us over the last 30 years? Tell me about how staunchly they've defended our rights and freedoms, how hard they've fought against wasteful spending, deficits and debts? Tell me all about how they've embodied smaller government, fiscal responsibility and freedom.

I can't seem to remember.

Your "lookout" seems to be to vote for someone who wants to drive this country off a cliff at 95 mph just to avoid the guy who wants to drive it off that same cliff at 110 mph. Maybe YOU'LL die before we go over the edge, but my kids won't. Neither will yours, if you have them.

 

[Trooper]

Remind me again how much the Republican Party has done for all of us over the last 30 years? Tell me about how staunchly they've defended our rights and freedoms, how hard they've fought against wasteful spending, deficits and debts? Tell me all about how they've embodied smaller government, fiscal responsibility and freedom.

I can't seem to remember.

Your "lookout" seems to be to vote for someone who wants to drive this country off a cliff at 95 mph just to avoid the guy who wants to drive it off that same cliff at 110 mph. Maybe YOU'LL die before we go over the edge, but my kids won't. Neither will yours, if you have them.

Over the last forty years there has also been a growing hostility towards G-D. Ever notice that more Americans rejected things of faith, the more power that government gained?

The last forty years has seen the Baby Boomers come into power. Maybe the problem is not the political parties but the people. Do you want to force freedom on people who want be serfs? Yet most of our college grads seem to desire some form of control. They do not want faith, government is their god.

If you accept the fact that a majority of Americans are screwed up then you might understand what we are up against.

 

[Trooper]

You're taking too short-term a view of this. This is not the kind of change you create within one election cycle. The Republican Party won't figure this out in one election. It's going to take several. They have to lose, and they have to lose big. They have to see that they will never win again until they return to their conservative base. This is going to be a hard lesson for them to learn, and it's going to take a bit of time to pound it through their thick heads. They need to see in no uncertain terms that moving more left won't help them. They need to see that the only way they'll win again is to move back to where they belong.

You aren't going to defeat their candidates in the primaries. You tried that last time and got Romney as a result. They even changed the rules to MAKE SURE you can't beat their candidates in the primaries. All you have left, if you really want to change them, is to walk away from them and let them die the strangling death they deserve for turning their backs on the principles upon which they built themselves.

And Mourdock probably would have beaten Donnelly if he wasn't such an idiot. He cost himself that election.




Nobody said it was going to be an easy one-election fix. This kind of fight takes years. Decades. Voting for Rights-limiting turd (R) just to vote against Rights-limiting turd (D) is no solution. All you're doing is rewarding the system you rail against.

You have to stop doing that if you want to force them to actually CHANGE.

The problem is that ASSUME that all republican voters support these guys. In fact less than 30% do.

We got played in the primaries. We had far too many conservatives running against one establishment type. We need one strong conservative candidate so we can take out the establishment candidate in the primaries.

Start looking now, I know of at least three conservatives. And the establishment is having a hard time recruiting. Jeb Bush is fighting it. I doubt that he would win.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Neener,Neener,Neener! My guys better than yours!

Your guy still lost and he is still a douchebag that would not have done much

 

[El-Cigarro]

Your guy still lost and he is still a douchebag that would not have done much

That could be said for almost ALL of them.....