To those who say Republicans are no different than Democrats

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  • Bummer

    Expert
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    Nov 5, 2010
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    West side of Indy
    I know in my heart that Romney would have been better than Obama for our country...given the 2 choices we had.

    The official results list eight choices, though all of them were not on the ballot in every State. None the less, there were not simply two. There were three on the piece of paper I was handed.

    A third party has never won an election in way over a 100 years.

    There are two primary reasons for that:

    The Democrats and Republicans have been rigging the election process, er, excuse me, reforming elections laws for over 100 years.

    People have been convincing themselves they can pick up a turd by the clean end for over 100 years.

    Neither of those things will change as long as people continue to treat politics as a mere team sport.

    If that is to change, people need to get off their butts now. It takes money to run an election, so yes money does buy elections.

    The Libertarian party started in 1972. I saw my first Libertarian national flyer by 1978. By 1980 I was writing in Libertarian candidates. Eventually the Libertarians overcame the blocks the Democrats and Republicans have put in the way of anyone but themselves, and no longer needed to be written in. People are off their butts.

    The problem is getting other people to think about principle. I can't count the number of people who took the World's Smallest Political Quiz, found that they are actually libertarian, then voted Republican anyway because of the lust to not-lose at any cost. That's the exact mentality that brought us Obama, and to this day the adherents blame everyone but themselves.

    It takes the amount of money it does because of the way the system is set up. That is entirely arbitrary. Once upon a time television and radio had to give time to the public good because they make their living using the public air-waves. Dish companies use the same public space as well. Cable and fiber optic systems make their living using grants of access and monopoly. There's absolutely no reason, even within the concepts of capitalism, that those entities can't be caused to give political ad time to all candidates as part of the fee to use public property. That alone would vastly reduce the amount of money needed to run a campaign.

    Much like everything else, elections are bought and sold because the people allow it to happen that way.

    My only hope is that Obama gets impeached so the MSM will stop portraying the democratic party as heroes.

    What do you think the chances of that are, with a Democrat controlled Senate and Republicans who want the same level of unconstitutional power for themselves?

    I spend a lot of time arguing Second Amendment politics on news web sites, generally through Disqus. One anti-2A response I received went off on his desire to ban violence in movies, on television, and generally wherever it is portrayed, complete with the standard European comparisons. While I can not sincerely agree - until repealed the Amendments are part of the Constitution - I was heartened to see a liberal loon beginning to attack bastions of liberal madness like the MSM and Hollywood. Perhaps when liberals see individual liberals frothing at the mouth about something they do respect and support, they'll grow a brain and think about what they're doing. (Come on, hope springs eternal, doesn't it?)
     

    Trooper

    Shooter
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    What everyone is forgetting is that most of the choice in elections happens during the primary. By the time we get to the general election, it is only two choices. If you want more options then vote in the primary.

    Even if we had an open primary, where all party candidates go up against everyone else, we would still have to have a general election (runoff) where the two top vote getters are the only choices.
     

    mrjarrell

    Shooter
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    Jun 18, 2009
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    What everyone is forgetting is that most of the choice in elections happens during the primary. By the time we get to the general election, it is only two choices. If you want more options then vote in the primary.

    Even if we had an open primary, where all party candidates go up against everyone else, we would still have to have a general election (runoff) where the two top vote getters are the only choices.
    You must be mathematically challenged or ignorant of the facts. There were far more than two candidates for president on the ballot. Some chose the right one and others pissed their vote away on a man that drove members of his own party to stay at home on election day. Saying there were, or are, only two candidates is disingenuous and flat out wrong. Then again, you've been there before.
     
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    Bummer

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    What everyone is forgetting is that most of the choice in elections happens during the primary.

    I'll bet that not all that many have forgotten. I certainly haven't.

    I voted in the Republican primary for the first time since the '70s. The Republican sheeple told me they didn't care what I wanted. I accepted that and moved on.

    I will probably not vote in a Republican primary for another forty years. The Republican party doesn't want to follow the Constitution any more than the Democrat party. I get it, so I don't vote for either of them.

    By the time we get to the general election, it is only two choices. If you want more options then vote in the primary.

    That's amazing. There were three choices on my ballot.

    Even if we had an open primary, where all party candidates go up against everyone else, we would still have to have a general election (runoff) where the two top vote getters are the only choices.

    That isn't really true. There are quite a few methods of staging elections. The method we use is guaranteed to yield either a Democrat or Republican winner, which is why the Democrats and Republicans wrote the laws to use that method.

    As far as I'm concerned every election in the US is rigged, and there's no more reason for me to vote than there was for a member of the proletariat in the CCCP to vote It's really all so they can pretend we have a legit system. I do it out of duty, but I know it's a waste of time. Deep inside I believe it is more honorable to not play in a rigged game, but I just can't not.
     

    jbombelli

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    May 17, 2008
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    What everyone is forgetting is that most of the choice in elections happens during the primary. By the time we get to the general election, it is only two choices. If you want more options then vote in the primary.

    Even if we had an open primary, where all party candidates go up against everyone else, we would still have to have a general election (runoff) where the two top vote getters are the only choices.

    There are only two choices if you blindly refuse to look beyond your two-party system.

    Those shadows you see dancing on the wall? They're not real.
     

    Trooper

    Shooter
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    There are only two choices if you blindly refuse to look beyond your two-party system.

    Those shadows you see dancing on the wall? They're not real.

    Like the Green Party?

    Sorry but by the time you get to the general, it is too late.

    Maybe if we had an open primary where all candidates of all parties run against each other, it might be a real choice. The top two would normally only get about 30% each thus forcing a runoff. This is used in many southern states.
     

    jamil

    code ho
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    Jul 17, 2011
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    You must be mathematically challenged or ignorant of the facts. There were far more than two candidates for president on the ballot. Some chose the right one and others pissed their vote away on a man that drove members of his own party to stay at home on election day. Saying there were, or are, only two candidates is disingenuous and flat out wrong. Then again, you've been there before.

    That "some chose right" is very opinion driven. Judging from the final tally, those that voted "right" in your world would be a pretty negligible portion of the overall "right" now wouldn't it?

    Who drove whom to do what is one way to spin it, but I generally agree that Romney wasn't a good enough candidate to get it done. He got fewer votes than McCain AFTER we've experienced the Obama presidency. That "monkey" everyone's talking about should have beaten Obama after all that hope and change.
     

    Trooper

    Shooter
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    That "some chose right" is very opinion driven. Judging from the final tally, those that voted "right" in your world would be a pretty negligible portion of the overall "right" now wouldn't it?

    Who drove whom to do what is one way to spin it, but I generally agree that Romney wasn't a good enough candidate to get it done. He got fewer votes than McCain AFTER we've experienced the Obama presidency. That "monkey" everyone's talking about should have beaten Obama after all that hope and change.

    Please be fair. Obama also got less votes than he did in 2008. More people opted out in 2012.

    And the libertarians were total losers....

    I believe that even the Ls got less that time around.

    But we are not really complaining about how many votes that the Ls took. Rather the self righteous attitude that many of you have here. Frankly none of you are much better than most conservatives. Mostly a bunch of fools still fighting the Civil War.
     

    Bunnykid68

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    Mar 2, 2010
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    Cave of Caerbannog
    Please be fair. Obama also got less votes than he did in 2008. More people opted out in 2012.

    And the libertarians were total losers....

    I believe that even the Ls got less that time around.

    But we are not really complaining about how many votes that the Ls took. Rather the self righteous attitude that many of you have here. Frankly none of you are much better than most conservatives. Mostly a bunch of fools still fighting the Civil War.

    Resorting to name calling now I see
     

    jbombelli

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    Please be fair. Obama also got less votes than he did in 2008. More people opted out in 2012.

    And the libertarians were total losers....

    I believe that even the Ls got less that time around.

    But we are not really complaining about how many votes that the Ls took. Rather the self righteous attitude that many of you have here. Frankly none of you are much better than most conservatives. Mostly a bunch of fools still fighting the Civil War.

    Is that why you all so adamantly blame the libertarians for Obama's win? What do you expect? You blame us for something that is not even remotely our fault, you call us stupid, uninformed, uneducated... and you're going to get self-righteous indignation in return and condescending remarks instructing you to "open your eyes." When you start out with open hostility do you think we're all going to just cower in the corner and tell you you're right? Guess again.
     

    DragonGunner

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    Mar 14, 2010
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    Bummer is right on the money about (R) and (D). I vote mostly (R), but got eduacated and started looking at other candidates after Romney got picked. I went with a 3rd party and learned that the (R) and (D) have been demonizing any other party for over 100 yrs. They have made bad self centered laws for the express purpose of stopping anyone or any other party to challenge them. Its the one thing they agreed to do together, and it wasn't for the good of America, it was good for them. And its been destroying us....and fooling the uneducated who still believe there can only be 2 Party's......thats called brainwashing and indoctrination.
     

    Bummer

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    Nov 5, 2010
    1,202
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    West side of Indy
    And the libertarians were total losers....

    I believe that even the Ls got less that time around.

    2008 - Bob Barr - 523,715

    2012 - Gary Johnson - 1,275,951

    The Libertarians more than doubled their numbers from the previous race.

    2008 - John McCain - 59,984,323

    2012 - Mitt Romney - 60,932,795

    Based upon those numbers the whole "3 million Republicans stayed home" lament seems to be unfounded. In order for that to be true, 4 million Republicans would have had to stay home in 2008.

    But we are not really complaining about how many votes that the Ls took. Rather the self righteous attitude that many of you have here. Frankly none of you are much better than most conservatives. Mostly a bunch of fools still fighting the Civil War.

    You may not be complaining about how many votes the Libertarians "took", but others most certainly are.

    Your comment on self righteous attitudes really set my Alanis Morissette branded Irony Meter achatter. Thank FSM for the automatic reset. Your Civil War comment gives a whole new depth of meaning to "Doh".

    As soon as Republicans start supporting the Constitution I'll consider supporting the Republicans. Examples: Romneycare and his signing of a gun control bill as Governor, for starters. Then more locally there is Dan Coats who is not really a strong supporter of the Second Amendment and is looking for just the right details before supporting the "Undocumented Alien Amnesty" bill. In fact, Coats is about as conservative as Donnelly, or Romney.
     

    charlietwo

    Plinker
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    Jun 15, 2013
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    Ft Wayne
    There are big differences between conservative Republicans and progressive Republicans. One believes in the Constitution, the other believes in Marx.

    Progressives/socialists/Marxists have effectively controlled the language in the international political debate for years. As conservatives and libertarians, getting out of the R vs D debate and into the Constitution vs Collectivism debate will be crucial.

    I personally think we're too far gone at this point and sliding towards WWIII with no safety valve in sight. How's that for pessimism?
     
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