The Walking Dead.

[armedindy]

(scratches armedindy off possible teammate list for zombie apocalypse defense and survival group)

i was gonna say, unless your like minded you may want to consider me a "shane" and stick with your AARP church loving group...im honestly just too terrified of beaing eaten alive by zombies to have old people or children or overly emotional and dramatic women in my group....im going straight commando

 

[printcraft]

i........im going straight commando

Hummmmmm....... well...... maybe there is a place for you after all...... I like your style.....

 

[ZombieApocolypse]

shane had an injured leg from jumping out the window...and all i can say is, if its between both of us getting eaten or just one, its gonna be just one. and if i get to choose which one of us survives you better damn well know i choose myself....and on top of it all, shane had the meds needed to save the kids life, so by shooting otis he saved himself and the kid...i think it was the right choice, mental defect or not....the only thing i may have done differently is given otis a mercy shot after the walkers started eating him...if i had time, which i guess he didnt.....this is a zombie "dog eat dog" world...F&*$ all, il do whatever is needed to stay alive, that is what is most important

i hate to go back to this .... but they could have hobbled (liek they were) and gotten away, there was enough time to talk, shoot him, and then tussle on the ground before the zombs were even remotely close ..... just sayin

 

[snapping turtle]

If Shane had just shot him in the head instead of the leg he would have had an easier time getting the other backpack.

I remember the old joke about two hunters gutting a deer when a big old griz comes along. One of them stops and puts on his running shoes.

The other asked "Why are you putting on running shoes you can't outrun a bear. "

Answer "I don't have to outrun the bear just you."

I think Darrel is losing it. Being called a "meth head" not being attached to anyone in the group yet all of them in a strange way. Getting shot by the blondie. Not getting any from the blondie. The whole flashbacks with his brother. He no longer wants to go into town and retrieve the others.

I also think I would have checked outside to see if others were with the two in the bar before i shot them. Lets face it there are most likely others with those two. It is just those two would have rather had a drink than something to eat from the local store. Not checking out your surroundings before you commit a murder is just not a very good way of thinking and something only a cop type person would do. I bet Darrel or Mel would have taken a look outside before shooting them. Then again darrel and mel might well have just joined in on that group.

 

[armedindy]

darrel could end up with sophias mom..she seems to like him

 

[EvilElmo]

I think Darrel is losing it. Being called a "meth head" not being attached to anyone in the group yet all of them in a strange way. Getting shot by the blondie. Not getting any from the blondie. The whole flashbacks with his brother. He no longer wants to go into town and retrieve the others.

I don't think he's losing it - he's just pissed about Sophia.

 

[BiscuitNaBasket]

Wishing I had cable.

 

[armedindy]

Wishing I had cable.

you have internet....your lack of cable is no excuse

 

[jsx1043]

Not checking out your surroundings before you commit a murder is just not a very good way of thinking and something only a cop type person would do.

 

[snapping turtle]

Sorry maybe getting a little overdone on the cop thing.
Still since they are the law they would not worry about the little things like making sure no one is backing up the bad guys. They have always had backup with them or a radio call away. A good thief or assassin would have check it out. A cop would act first then call in backup.

 

[CSORuger]

My X wife and new husband and mother in law

 

[armedindy]

didnt really seem like he had time, or much of a choice...homeboy reached for his gun so rick shot him...turned around and bigdude was going for his so he shot him too...just did what he had to do

 

[hooky]

They didn't have time to check surroundings before taking out the Eagle fans, and now they'll have to deal with the consequences of their actions. You do what you gotta do, but everything you do has a consequence.

I think Hershel is a 1911 guy, but I couldn't tell for sure. I'm looking forward to finding out. The pistols each of them carry reflects their personality.

 

[Whitsettd8]

Yep I'd rather ride with Daryl, and yes Shane is a mental case but I still think he would have taken those guys out easily.

I have to say Rick is the biggest bad ass. Daryl and Shane have no one to live for other than themselves. Rick has a family to protect and people will do anything to protect there families.

 

[theweakerbrother]

shane had an injured leg from jumping out the window...and all i can say is, if its between both of us getting eaten or just one, its gonna be just one. and if i get to choose which one of us survives you better damn well know i choose myself....and on top of it all, shane had the meds needed to save the kids life, so by shooting otis he saved himself and the kid...i think it was the right choice, mental defect or not....the only thing i may have done differently is given otis a mercy shot after the walkers started eating him...if i had time, which i guess he didnt.....this is a zombie "dog eat dog" world...F&*$ all, il do whatever is needed to stay alive, that is what is most important

Shane? Is that you?

 

[theweakerbrother]

Ethics, Ethos, Perception and Survival

Many of you have hit the nail on the head of the situations that the survivors are facing. The writers are interpreting the moral choices through their own lenses and their lenses are often much different than the ones that you or I have. The perception seems to be that self defense, aggression, violence and the ability to survive are often deemed as negative actions. The writers want you to think that these things are negative and write the story lines so that each spectrum character performs actions that are noteworthy of their own character archetypes. The writers have an idea about one of these topics in mind, write it into the story and expect the audience to interpret their ethics and expect you to mirror their reactions. Or, they attempt to channel your emotions into mimicking/invoking emotions that they had while writing the story line.

Unfortunately, a lot of what they are attempting to communicate falls flat with those of us who see ourselves as moralists who see guns and self defense as a very positive thing.

Because Hollywood often portrays the gun owner as an ignorant malignant representative of humanity who kills for fun, all actions done by any character using firearms is often shown to prove the antagonist as the heel of the show or to show the main character's fall from grace.

I like parts of Shane because he is showing the assertiveness that certainly must be done in the emergent post-apocalyptic society. Let me be clear on this. I am not speaking of his selfish-nature of wanting to rape women, be tempted to murder those in his way or put himself above all else (Otis, Dale, Daryl, et al.). Shane, as previously stated, has already lost it. He is a ticking time bomb and should be dealt with accordingly. He ironically and unintentionally makes comments about the group, but cares very little for them. He sees himself as the ever-bleeding martyr and savior of the group, but his voice and character paint a much different picture. He is the man of lawlessness who thinks he should only beholden to himself. He is the ubermensch that is the philosophical conclusion of Nietzsche's.

Where Shane does right is when he demands a call to responsiveness that awakens the group to the danger they are truly in. The barn incident was borderline unforgivable either because of the danger it posed to the group. In a cold and moral-less thought process, it was certainly illogical. The show was intent on making you think that what Shane was doing was wrong. The screaming and chest-pounding, the ravings of a lunatic and the truly pathological behavior he was portraying was "wrong." Obviously the method for exposing the walkers in the born caused psychological trauma to several in the group for a variety of reasons. Even in zombie state, it would be no easy thing to bear witness to your mother or sister being shot. Also remember that the group saw Sophia for the first time for her disappearance. Do you remember who shot her? It certainly wasn't Shane and he had the ammo for the job as well as the fortitude. I think Shane was in shock that Sophia was in the barn. Judging by his comments, did he really care that she was a zombie and that they had to put a bullet in her? No, because he was constantly commenting on the resources wasted and used in looking for her. It is back to the ego or self of the character of Shane.

Shane brings raw passionate violence to the group that has allowed them to be moderately successful to the group. It seems to be increasingly dangerous and no longer worth the risk to have him because he wants a power shift in who is in charge (even though no one has declared their self as being in charge. Tyler34 turned me on to a great Machiavellian quote. It is appropriate to mention it with a recommendation as to how to best deal with Shane and all Shanes of the world: "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared."

Shane needs injuried and I'm afraid he has almost reached the irredeemable state of redemption. You could not ban and shun him from the group and excommunicate him from the group as he would surely attempt to kill everyone in retaliation. Revenge is the only time that Shane would ever risk his own life. His ego would convict him that he could kill the group and get away with it.

Rick is suffering greatly himself and because of it the group greatly suffers. The writers are obviously attempting to make him a Christ-figure to the show. The always suffering redeemer of the group who swoops in at the last possible moment. The humanness of his character is his unwillingness to be decisive when decisiveness is needed. His weakness is shown in his fear of dealing with Shane directly, with Hershel and the farm community and his placating of both groups "relationships."

When Rick and company is encountered with the two Philadelphia low-lifes (another ironic statement, after all Philadelphia means city of [brotherly] love) the show's perception is that Rick's actions in defending his property and life are negative. To those who regard self defense as a correct action, or even as the moral high ground, we know better. Rick's actions saved many lives and suffering at the hands of those men. Unfortunately, the show will probably have people doubting the necessary violence that Rick used in protecting the group. We probably won't know the whole story but it does confront us with the ugly truth of what happens when two kinds of people encounter. What happens when only the self is concerned and what happens when they are confronted with those who continue to subscribe to the social contract theory of morality in this or any post-apocalyptic environment.

I'm just glad that the good guys have won. At least, for now and while the show is still showing a distinguishable line between the good guys and the bad.

 

[jsx1043]

^ What he said. ^

 

[Libertarian01]

A Further Commentary on Shane

To All,

There has been a lot of very good discussion of the show and the characters. We all have those we like, are neutral toward, and dislike. I think Shane's character is a very strong personality that is polarizing and worthy of a bit of discussion on his own.

My initial dislike of Shane comes from day one (1). He lied to Ricks wife about Ricks condition just so that he could have her. One of the top rules, "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife" (or your best friends wife too.) Shane has been a self centered jealous character from the word GO.

Shane constantly likes to look at the negatives of the world to justify a "dog eat dog" attitude that everyone can be (and will be) sacrificed just so "I" can survive. Yet the reality is that the world is not that way at all.

Yes, the zombies will eat you, and there are many desperate and hostile groups out there scrounging for the leftovers to survive. Yet there are also people who very helpful. The group taking care of the old folks who were mostly hispanic were a good group. Otis and Hershel's family. Morgan in the beginning saving Rick.

This reflects a normal diversity of human behavior.

The most intense (IMO) scene so far this season has been the barn scene. Shane was enraged that the group wasn't listening to him. If everyone will recall the entire group knew about the zombies in the barn. At this stage is was no secret. Steps were in place to keep it secure. Yet this wasn't good enough for Shane. When his view of the risk assessment was challenged by Hershel and Rick he went into a break from rational thought and fired rounds into bodies a few feet from alleged friends. Continuing his little temper tantrum he ripped the security (that was working) off of the barn and forced a very dangerous situation.

When medicine was needed for Carl Otis stepped up and volunteered to go. Otis did not have to do that. When both men were escaping it wasn't Otis who even considered shooting Shane to get away. Both men in an equally stressful situation and Shane was the weak one. Now in fairness we all have moments of weakness where we look back on things and wish we had done them differently. Yet not Shane. After all, it's a dog eat dog world and Otis was expendable for the narcissist to get away.

I would humbly argue that Shane is attempting to make mountains out of molehills to inflate his own position in relation to his self deluded sense of worth. Shane isn't seeing the world for what it is, but how he wants it to be so he can justify his lack of ethical or moral behavior.

That isn't to say that Hershel was correct. In this case both Rick and to a lesser extent Dale were trying to gently convince him to see what was really going on.

In all fairness I do not know how I would handle someone like Shane. I have an unfair viewpoint from my position as an observer of the show. I think that needs to be considered as we discuss what we know versus what we would know if we were standing next to Dale or Daryl in the scenes.

I do believe that from this viewpoint the positives that Shane brings to the group are now heavily outweighed by his negatives, but that is just my opinion. I know that I sure as heck wouldn't want him on my side in a fight. He would cut me loose at the first sign of risk to him. I'd rather have Glen there who I know will be wishywashy versus the illusion of dependability.

I must throw in a big huge kudo for Jon Bernthal, the actor who is playing Shane. I think he is doing an outstanding job in bringing a very complex and driven character to life for all of us to enjoy, or enjoy hating!

Regards,

Doug

 

[Expat]

Something had to be done about the barn situation. Rounding up walkers and putting them in the barn could not continue. Someone was going to eventually get bit and with the small remnant of humanity that is left, silly casualties are not acceptable.

 

[jbombelli]

Something had to be done about the barn situation. Rounding up walkers and putting them in the barn could not continue. Someone was going to eventually get bit and with the small remnant of humanity that is left, silly casualties are not acceptable.

I can sympathize with Shane in regard to the barn scene. Not only was there great resistance to getting rid of the walkers, there's Hershel and Rick bringing more. He's getting frustrated at the lack of survival instincts in the group. And right after the barn scene, what happens? Hershel runs off, Rick and Glen go looking for him, then Lori takes off too... I mean, COME ON!

Regarding Otis? Shane traded Otis for Carl. I can see that, since Otis is the guy that shot him in the first place.

Assuming Rick was dead in the hospital was reasonable too.

My issues with him are his sighting in on Rick and trying to rape Lori when he was drunk.

Oh, and a big +1 to Jon Bernthal.