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    gundawg

    Marksman
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    Jun 8, 2016
    207
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    Cedar Lake
    Incredible. If I wanted to wade through knee-deep Proggie horse manure, I'd go to Fire Dog Lake.

    When Obama and Clinton took over the Middle East was relatively stable. They abandoned Iraq, enabled Iran (particularly the Ayatollah and the cleric ruling class), tried to put the Muslim Brotherhood in charge of Egypt, de-stablilized Libya and then went to war with Gaddafi, leaving a hodge-podge of terrorist organizations in the place of a guy who was a bad actor but who had given up his weapons of mass destruction and was cooperating with us and keeping a lid on the savages. They sent Gaddafi's weapons to terrorists in the Middle East in violation of American and international law. They put Americans at risk in Benghazi to advance their preposterous narrative of "victory" in Libya and when the inevitable occurred they abandoned Americans fighting for their lives to die at the hands of our enemies. In the aftermath they lied to the entire nation and they lied to the families of the dead over the coffins of their sons. They promoted an image of American weakness and allowed Assad to use chemical weapons on his own people after saying to do so would be crossing a "red line". They are the people most responsible for the rise of ISIS, a metastasizing cancer on the planet now slaughtering people by the tens of thousands, particularly Christians and Yazidis, and exporting bloody terror around the globe.

    In Europe they abandoned our NATO ally Poland and cozied up to Putin, who took advantage of their half-witted idiocy and invaded Ukraine.

    The results of the Obama/Clinton foreign policy, based on Leftist ideology that blames America and the West for all the world's ills and motivated by the way domestic public opinion could be moved by foreign policy gestures, not any rational understanding of history and international politics, or a coherent strategy, are a Middle East aflame, North Africa a chaotic breeding ground for terrorists, Iran with billions of dollars given to them by Obama and Clinton to fund their terrorist agents and their nuclear weapons and ballistic missile programs, ISIS sending it's terrorists around the world (Obama is even importing them here by the thousands, a practice Clinton promises not only to continue, but to accelerate), Putin seizing the Crimea and dramatically enhancing Russian influence internationally, and we haven't even begun to discuss China's Pacific provocations and international market and currency manipulations. Nor have we discussed the domestic disintegration of race relations, race riots and the War On Cops, or the economic stagnation Obama has intentionally inflicted on our nation through policies Clinton has promised to continue.

    But Trump is a blowhard. Obviously he would be just as bad (probably worse!) than the worst president in American history, an anti-American POS who has done everything in his power to weaken our nation and the lying, self-serving, corrupt and evil ***** who helped him.

    Anyone who can make this preposterous moral equivocation is beneath contempt. It's despicable. Just despicable.
     

    Alpo

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Sep 23, 2014
    13,877
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    "OMG! Someone sees it as we do!


    dick-rumsfeld-and-dick-cheney-laughing.jpg
     

    Kutnupe14

    Troll Emeritus
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    Jan 13, 2011
    40,294
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    Translation: I can't refute what you say, so I'll just try a lame attempt at an insult.

    Actually, the second sentence in your post, if not outright false, is highly opinionated/biased. One could say the Middle East was "relatively" stable prior to Obama....and then simply insert a differing president: Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter... The area has become increasingly devolved with each successive president.

    There's the NATO question concerning Poland. From my isolationist perspective, why is it the United States's responsibility protect a European member of NATO, when the Europeans aren't so keen in doing it themselves. Despite the acronym, NATO does not stand for "Now Americans Take Over," or at least it shouldn't. Putin's overtures have been confined to saber-rattling. As far as abandoning, the administration has is going to install the missile shield (as was done in Romania) and have started rotating soldiers into the nation. As far as the Ukraine, which apparently you are unhappy with... what course of action would you have supported? Military intervention? Bad idea. Providing military tech? Bad idea.

    Then of course you make the ISIS reference, concerning them sending terrorists around the world. At best, your statement is unsubstantiated, at worse false. The refugees that have arrived on US soil aren't imported terrorists, and to generalize that group as such en masse, is fear peddling.

    Russia, at least that is debatable. Their influence "might" be growing, but not socially, economically, and it's kinda sorta politically. Kinda sorta, because their political aspirations are supported by the Red Army, and we've been down that road before. They don't have the cash to support their current ambitions, and until oil rebounds, they're throwing away boatloads of cash to keep Putin looking strong. It's a smoke and mirror show, that the Eastern Bloc has patented.
     

    BugI02

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 4, 2013
    32,557
    149
    Columbus, OH
    The two problems there are the loss of good people and that Hillary was not included in 'we'.

    And the problem going forward of who would be crazy enough to work with us in the ME ever again. Quality local allies will be lost to us for a generation and our untrustworthiness and unwillingness to do whatever it takes to stand by our allies will color our relations with locals in other parts of the world.

    The damage done by Obama/Clinton is wide-ranging and ongoing and will only get worse under a Clinton regime
     

    jamil

    code ho
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    Jul 17, 2011
    62,314
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    Gtown-ish
    Actually, the second sentence in your post, if not outright false, is highly opinionated/biased. One could say the Middle East was "relatively" stable prior to Obama....and then simply insert a differing president: Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter... The area has become increasingly devolved with each successive president.

    There's the NATO question concerning Poland. From my isolationist perspective, why is it the United States's responsibility protect a European member of NATO, when the Europeans aren't so keen in doing it themselves. Despite the acronym, NATO does not stand for "Now Americans Take Over," or at least it shouldn't. Putin's overtures have been confined to saber-rattling. As far as abandoning, the administration has is going to install the missile shield (as was done in Romania) and have started rotating soldiers into the nation. As far as the Ukraine, which apparently you are unhappy with... what course of action would you have supported? Military intervention? Bad idea. Providing military tech? Bad idea.

    Then of course you make the ISIS reference, concerning them sending terrorists around the world. At best, your statement is unsubstantiated, at worse false. The refugees that have arrived on US soil aren't imported terrorists, and to generalize that group as such en masse, is fear peddling.

    Russia, at least that is debatable. Their influence "might" be growing, but not socially, economically, and it's kinda sorta politically. Kinda sorta, because their political aspirations are supported by the Red Army, and we've been down that road before. They don't have the cash to support their current ambitions, and until oil rebounds, they're throwing away boatloads of cash to keep Putin looking strong. It's a smoke and mirror show, that the Eastern Bloc has patented.
    Why did you disagree with Fire Dog Lake, and then go on about the Middle East?
     

    IndyDave1776

    Grandmaster
    Emeritus
    Rating - 100%
    12   0   0
    Jan 12, 2012
    27,286
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    Actually, the second sentence in your post, if not outright false, is highly opinionated/biased. One could say the Middle East was "relatively" stable prior to Obama....and then simply insert a differing president: Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter... The area has become increasingly devolved with each successive president.

    Then of course you make the ISIS reference, concerning them sending terrorists around the world. At best, your statement is unsubstantiated, at worse false. The refugees that have arrived on US soil aren't imported terrorists, and to generalize that group as such en masse, is fear peddling.

    Russia, at least that is debatable. Their influence "might" be growing, but not socially, economically, and it's kinda sorta politically. Kinda sorta, because their political aspirations are supported by the Red Army, and we've been down that road before. They don't have the cash to support their current ambitions, and until oil rebounds, they're throwing away boatloads of cash to keep Putin looking strong. It's a smoke and mirror show, that the Eastern Bloc has patented.

    OK, so supporting the Arab Spring, jerking the rug out from under the fledgling Iraqi government, throwing one of our extremely few true Arab allies under the bus in Egypt, sponsoring the overthrow of a dictator who wasn't exactly a friend but was stable and was with the program in Libya, and seriously strengthening Iran didn't seriously destabilize the Middle East? Under Bush, we had two ME countries in a turmoil. Now the whole damned place is jacked up, and as a bonus, the Kenyan insists on referring to ISIS as ISIL, which contains an integral non-recognition of Israel, thus further insulting yet another ally.

    We also appear to have established that you do not object to importing people of absolutely unverified integrity from terrorist-rich environments. This raises two questions: First, are you suicidal and second, do you not understand that our economy cannot support this?

    As for Russia, the last time we ran with the argument 'they don't have the cash', the proceeded to build the Aswan dam for Egypt. I don't recall off the top of my head what the bill was, but it wasn't cheap.
     

    ArcadiaGP

    Wanderer
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    Jun 15, 2009
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    Indianapolis
    I love the way the left is trying to build Manafort into an equivalent of the Clinton Foundation.

    National Review is not "the left"

    The Clinton Foundation situation, and the Trump campaign situations are not mutually exclusive. They can both be things at the same time.

    There exist negative things about Trump and his people.
     

    T.Lex

    Grandmaster
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    15   0   0
    Mar 30, 2011
    25,859
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    I love the way the left is trying to build Manafort into an equivalent of the Clinton Foundation.

    Hell, making millions as a political consultant is not a bad thing. (BTW, I learned that specifically about Manafort on INGO.)

    Manafort's links to pro-Russian parties in the Ukraine is something well-documented. Heck, last I looked, it was also part of Trump's own bio on him in campaign materials. Denying it just shows that the campaign is out of touch. And lying about things they really don't need to lie about.
     

    ArcadiaGP

    Wanderer
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    Jun 15, 2009
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    Indianapolis
    Ooo, they're getting nasty. Shaming people into the theater didn't help Ghostbusters remake... and shaming people into voting certainly won't help Trump.

    Laura Ingraham said:
    When your kids & grandkids ask you what you did to defeat the Clinton mob, what will you tell them?

    https://twitter.com/IngrahamAngle/status/765186918103576576

    I like Ben Howe's response:

    Ben Howe said:
    I’ll tell them Laura Ingraham & others foisted an awful candidate on us, then blamed everyone else when he lost.
     

    Alpo

    Grandmaster
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    2   0   0
    Sep 23, 2014
    13,877
    113
    Indy Metro Area
    if we had ALL the oil from Iraq as Alpo the reason for the wars we would have $.50 gallon gas........but we don't.....we only get 8%.....

    Iraq is pumping oil at record pace despite chaos - Jun. 7, 2016

    You need to think more broadly. Iraq is only one of many oil-producing countries in the region. Answer this: If there was no oil in the middle east and southwest asia, do you think we would be fighting to defend the rights of camel jockeys?
     

    Ericpwp

    Grandmaster
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    18   0   0
    Jan 14, 2011
    6,753
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    NWI
    You need to think more broadly. Iraq is only one of many oil-producing countries in the region. Answer this: If there was no oil in the middle east and southwest asia, do you think we would be fighting to defend the rights of camel jockeys?
    :rolleyes:
     
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