The Republican Primary Race Is Filling Up

[BugI02]

Trump slams Apple's rejection of court order - POLITICO

Rubio and Cruz feel the same way. The real foe of the Surveilance State dropped out of the race.

 

[T.Lex]

Much like with Hillary and Sanders -- it's already baked in. People don't care. They like what these candidates are saying now and don't care about that past stuff. It's already been absorbed, discounted, and now ignored.

Yeah, this.

Even I, as Trump-avoidant as I am, recognize that those might have been investments to him - that likely paid off. I'm sure there are Republicans that got his money, too, even if the total was different.

He's a product of his environs. Which, I think Cruz is ultimately smart to attack. New York elected carpetbagger Hilary to the Senate. It isn't like conservatives are going to get those votes anyway.

Oh, and if he compares himself to William Buckley again, he deserves the Lloyd Bentsen treatment.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Rubio and Cruz feel the same way. The real foe of the Surveilance State dropped out of the race.

Interesting quandary...if Apple refuses to obey a court order (which apparently there is), show that CEO be forced to go to jail (ala Kim Davis) for failure to obey?

 

[T.Lex]

Interesting quandary...if Apple refuses to obey a court order (which apparently there is), show that CEO be forced to go to jail (ala Kim Davis) for failure to obey?

There remain appeals to be litigated and delays to be sought.

 

[jamil]

Upon further reflection, this struck me: while I (vehemently) disagree with Sanders about what is best for America, I have no doubt that Sanders will do what he believes is best for America. I have no such hope with Trump. I believe he has consistently proven he will do what is best for Donald Trump, regardless of circumstance. That is not a president we want.


I don't see a coattail effect with Sanders. I can see populist-Trump browbeating and bullying members of Congress to bend to his will. And his bank accounts. Do we really think Trump will give up control of his investments to a presidential blind trust?


You may be thinking of me. People get me and GPIAhnhurhnheh confused all the time, since we look so much alike.

I hope it doesn't come down to Trump vs Sanders. I'm not all that fond of Denmark.

Correct, you asked to rank all the candidates. I included the Democrats, like everyone else did. I did not include all the fake candidates. I guess I can look at everyone else's post in that thread and say "OMG YOU'D VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT" just because the exist on the list you asked them to make...

I always get ****ty at the people that say they'll "stay at home" if this or this happens.

Here's my answer: I'll stay at home if the race is between two Democrats. Two actual, lifelong Democrats. Not a squishy "democrat-lite" GOP... but real Democrats.

And I'll probably become much less political in the near future, and more more of a prepper. Because **** this clownshow.

Edit: I missed the townhall last night, had family stuff planned... but apparently Trump endorsed socialized medicine again?

Was THIS the most embarrassing moment for Trump at the MSNBC town hall? twitchy.com

His name is on the ballot. With the ranked voting experiment you rank everyone on the ballot. It's okay to put him last.

 

[BugI02]

Interesting quandary...if Apple refuses to obey a court order (which apparently there is), show that CEO be forced to go to jail (ala Kim Davis) for failure to obey?

Interesting legal tangle, too. Gov't isn't compelling him to reveal information he has and does not want to divulge. Gov't is on much shakier ground attempting to compel him to create software to gov't specs. Interesting fourth, fifth and possibly even sixth ammendment issues. I'm assuming they can afford pretty good legal representation

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Yawn. The Koch brothers, those bastions of closet progressivism also give money to Democrats, and some pretty nasty ones at that. Isn't that the way businessmen do things? Has Trump failed to give money to Republicans? Has he given to Democrats since he began to run for office? He. Was. A. Businessman. If you wish to rail against anything, rail against the whores that take the money.


ETA: Remember, money is just another name for $peech and some peeps can afford more than others


View attachment 45214

There's that "But Bush!" deflection I've grown accustomed to.

 

[Tombs]

Rubio and Cruz feel the same way. The real foe of the Surveilance State dropped out of the race.

Rubio is the most pro surveillance state person on that stage, worse than Christie.

Look back a few pages, I posted his complete voting record.

 

[BugI02]

There's that "But Bush!" deflection I've grown accustomed to.

Perhaps you should re-read the quote you reference, it is #1340. No mention of Bush (any Bush). No deflection, I quite acknowledge that your 'evidence' seems reasonable, although it is just a picture of a hand holding a piece of printout (I don't think that nail polish color is really 'you', though). I really don't doubt that Trump and virtually all other businessmen seeking influence (which is to say all businessmen) give freely to both parties. Just what is it you want? Shall I rush about shouting 'curses, foiled again' because you have once again spoiled my dastardly plot to make Trump appear more desireable to the electorate? I have simply taken your 'evidence' and shown that, rather than unmasking the real Trump, it is simply business as usual for the rich and powerful. In order to do that I indeed have to present evidence that they also give to both sides of the aisle, which I have done. What am I deflecting. Do I need to come up with a rationale for Trump's actions? I believe I already have. Next.

Why don't you just spit it out. What IS it that you want from Trump supporters. Do you want us to finally be forced to acknowledge that Trump secretly is a Democrat. That we're all being fooled and only GPIADiogenes is clear sighted enough to pierce the deception. Whatever your beef is with Trump it seems awfully personal. It's not about you. It never has been. You have correctly ascertained that I don't think like you. Now all you have to do is accept that I don't want to​

 

[BugI02]

Hold that thought. Bedtime. Later

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Perhaps you should re-read the quote you reference, it is #1340. No mention of Bush (any Bush). No deflection,

"But Bush" is not a literal term. It's what Obama supporters did every time we pointed out an Obama flaw or negativity. They would say "But Bush!" So, in this context, you "But Kochs!"... which is a variation of "But Bush!" Talking about Kochs is the deflection.

I quite acknowledge that your 'evidence' seems reasonable, although it is just a picture of a hand holding a piece of printout (I don't think that nail polish color is really 'you', though). I really don't doubt that Trump and virtually all other businessmen seeking influence (which is to say all businessmen) give freely to both parties.

My argument that you guys tend to ignore is that Trump is, and always has been, a Democrat. This is just more evidence of that fact.

Just what is it you want? Shall I rush about shouting 'curses, foiled again' because you have once again spoiled my dastardly plot to make Trump appear more desireable to the electorate? I have simply taken your 'evidence' and shown that, rather than unmasking the real Trump, it is simply business as usual for the rich and powerful.

I want to make it clear to you, and other Trump supporters, that you are willingly and knowingly voting for a Democrat. You're trying to soften it by saying it's "business as usual for the blah blah..." Again, ignoring that this is Trump, a Democrat, donating large amounts of money to other VERY bad Democrats that are VERY against freedoms and the Constitution. He directly assisted them in getting re-elected. That is what I want. For you to know that deep down every time you deflect more Trump criticism. I want you to feel guilty about it by the time 2016 is over.

In order to do that I indeed have to present evidence that they also give to both sides of the aisle, which I have done. What am I deflecting. Do I need to come up with a rationale for Trump's actions? I believe I already have. Next.

"Everyone does it" is your rationale? So now that you've rationalized it, Trump is back to being a red-blooded Republican/Conservative in your mind? Is this what you really believe?

Why don't you just spit it out. What IS it that you want from Trump supporters. Do you want us to finally be forced to acknowledge that Trump secretly is a Democrat. That we're all being fooled and only GPIADiogenes is clear sighted enough to pierce the deception. Whatever your beef is with Trump it seems awfully personal. It's not about you. It never has been. You have correctly ascertained that I don't think like you. Now all you have to do is accept that I don't want to​

Oh I'm not the only one that thinks you guys are crazy. Or misguided. Or whatever this Obama-cult worship thing is. My beef is that he's a Democrat running as a Republican. It's a very, very simple beef. It's unfair to the election process, it's unfair to other candidates, and it's unfair to those of us that want to vote for a Conservative, but he's in there ****ing it all up as a Democrat.

This holier than thou stance of yours isn't going to change anything. One simple question: Do you think Donald Trump is a Conservative?

This isn't a matter of opinion, or "thinking like me". Take me out of the equation here. Trump is a Democrat. This is a fact. This is not what I think, this is not an opinion that I came up with.

Donald J Trump is a Democrat. He is a leftist. He is a populist Democrat. This is not negotiable. To think otherwise is to be willingly misguided. There is evidence thrown at you daily to re-enforce this fact... but you guys deflect and ignore it, holding tightly onto some weird reality where Trump is a god-sent Conservative here to save America and "make it great again". I still can't believe he wants to sue another candidate for running ads against him using his OWN WORDS. That alone is just pathetic, embarrassing, and unpresidential. It's like Trump has become one of his followers... he, too, doesn't want to believe what he used to be.

Donations are just one small part of who he is... my favorite is his complete lack of consistency. Believing a businessman/salesman at his word is incredibly unwise in the first place... but seeing him, right in front of your eyes, change his views on every stance he's ever had... and not bat an eye at it... that's just stupidity. He was pro-choice before he was pro-life. He's for socialized medicine. He was anti-gun before he was pro-gun. He was for Iraq before he was against it. Trump didn't just say he was ambivalent -- he claimed to have opposed the Iraq War. Which is a lie. All perfectly timed with him becoming a Republican candidate.

Does that not jar you at all? Does that not make you stop and THINK a little about this guy?

Most importantly about all of this, It's not about me. So stop making it about me. I know you think I'm an easier target, and it's much easier to pick on some anonymous internet guy on a gun forum than it is to come to terms with who "your guy" is. It's ok to like him. It's ok to think he's a neat fella. But it's disingenuous to prop him up as something that he very clearly is not.

Back to your final line... if, after presented with overwhelming evidence that Trump is a Democrat, and you "don't want to" change your mind... That's fine... but you should remove yourself from arguing otherwise. Or start proving evidence that he suddenly is what he says he is. "I think he's a Conservative" or "I believe he's a Conservative" isn't enough. Linking his campaign website, or videos of him saying "I'm a Conservative" isn't enough. Words are cheap, and they're even cheaper to a salesman. An entertainer. A businessman. His actions, alone, speak very loudly to the contrary of his cheap words.

And going forward... if you wish to continue believing Trump is a Conservative. Cool. Vote for him in the primary. Post pro-Trump articles here. Nothing wrong with that... but don't get personal with people that say you're wrong... you guys seem to consistently make this about INGO members instead of the content that's posted here.

 

[Thor]

Pardon me while I whip this out...NO!

 

[Thor]

He supported de Blasio, said he'd make a great mayor...either he's an idiot or he has no core beliefs he's not willing to sacrifice for the next deal.

This is just the next deal for him. He's laughing all the way to the ballot box.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

New South Carolina GOP poll (ARG 2/17-2/18) [change vs 2/14-2/16]:

Trump 34% (+1)
Rubio 22% (+6)
Kasich 14% (0)
Cruz 13% (-1)
Jeb 9% (0)
Carson 4% (+1)



Edit:

Judge in Illinois agrees to hear case against Ted Cruz's presidential eligibility

 

[T.Lex]

Instead of Is Trump a Democrat, let's argue something a bit different. Following up on an earlier point of mine, who here thinks Trump would truly put America before himself? In other words, if he faced a choice between what was best for the republic, but it meant hardship for him or his family, what do you think he would choose? What do you think his historical judgment has been - the greater good, or himself?

 

[UNLOCKEM]

Side observation: Trump's national numbers are generally slumping. My working theory is that Trump supporters are going to Sanders, in at least comparable numbers as to the other Republican candidates.

That other thread, where Trump mistook Sanders' campaign for his own, is insightful.

You mean this one?
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/general-political-discussion/406723-trump-same-bernie.html

 

[Tombs]

Donald J Trump is a Democrat. He is a leftist. He is a populist Democrat. This is not negotiable. To think otherwise is to be willingly misguided. There is evidence thrown at you daily to re-enforce this fact... but you guys deflect and ignore it, holding tightly onto some weird reality where Trump is a god-sent Conservative here to save America and "make it great again". I still can't believe he wants to sue another candidate for running ads against him using his OWN WORDS. That alone is just pathetic, embarrassing, and unpresidential. It's like Trump has become one of his followers... he, too, doesn't want to believe what he used to be.

Donations are just one small part of who he is... my favorite is his complete lack of consistency. Believing a businessman/salesman at his word is incredibly unwise in the first place... but seeing him, right in front of your eyes, change his views on every stance he's ever had... and not bat an eye at it... that's just stupidity. He was pro-choice before he was pro-life. He's for socialized medicine. He was anti-gun before he was pro-gun. He was for Iraq before he was against it. Trump didn't just say he was ambivalent -- he claimed to have opposed the Iraq War. Which is a lie. All perfectly timed with him becoming a Republican candidate.

Does that not jar you at all? Does that not make you stop and THINK a little about this guy?

Most importantly about all of this, It's not about me. So stop making it about me. I know you think I'm an easier target, and it's much easier to pick on some anonymous internet guy on a gun forum than it is to come to terms with who "your guy" is. It's ok to like him. It's ok to think he's a neat fella. But it's disingenuous to prop him up as something that he very clearly is not.

Back to your final line... if, after presented with overwhelming evidence that Trump is a Democrat, and you "don't want to" change your mind... That's fine... but you should remove yourself from arguing otherwise. Or start proving evidence that he suddenly is what he says he is. "I think he's a Conservative" or "I believe he's a Conservative" isn't enough. Linking his campaign website, or videos of him saying "I'm a Conservative" isn't enough. Words are cheap, and they're even cheaper to a salesman. An entertainer. A businessman. His actions, alone, speak very loudly to the contrary of his cheap words.

And going forward... if you wish to continue believing Trump is a Conservative. Cool. Vote for him in the primary. Post pro-Trump articles here. Nothing wrong with that... but don't get personal with people that say you're wrong... you guys seem to consistently make this about INGO members instead of the content that's posted here.

What you're basically saying is that you're judging someone before they were politically engaged or cared about politics in any serious capacity beyond a means to achieve a goal.

So that now when they do enter the ring after their ideals have matured and they've invested themselves into the process, anything they did before is now the only thing that matters? Not even the slightest chance should be afforded for them to demonstrate themselves? Show me a single democrat who shoots down political correctness and is willing to be labeled a fascist and a racist, and keep on trucking while flipping them the finger. Those don't exist.

The reason this is turning back around on you is that you're giving everyone else plenty of leeway with their bumpy and undesirable pasts(I proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Rubio is a backstabber to the constitution), yet you condemn Trump, when he has easily the best excuse of ANYONE for pushing the political views he did.

Ask James Woods about the topic. It might be enlightening for you to see how things work when you refuse to follow the liberal agenda.

If you honestly believe "words are cheap" then you'll understand precisely what I'm saying and precisely why it isn't shocking that Trump has gone conservative.

 

[T.Lex]

So that now when they do enter the ring after their ideals have matured and they've invested themselves into the process, anything they did before is now the only thing that matters? Not even the slightest chance should be afforded for them to demonstrate themselves? Show me a single democrat who shoots down political correctness and is willing to be labeled a fascist and a racist, and keep on trucking while flipping them the finger. Those don't exist.
...
Ask James Woods about the topic. It might be enlightening for you to see how things work when you refuse to follow the liberal agenda.

If you honestly believe "words are cheap" then you'll understand precisely what I'm saying and precisely why it isn't shocking that Trump has gone conservative.

He hasn't "gone conservative." Well, I've seen no evidence of it. What are the "conservative" positions he's taken that don't help him personally?

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Trump is for the Obamacare individual mandate. That's going to turn off some of his supporters, no doubt.

Donald Trump really said this: I like the Obamacare MANDATE » The Right Scoop -
Trump: I 'Like' Obamacare's Individual Mandate | The Weekly Standard

 

[T.Lex]

Why does Trump's website only have positions on 5 issues?

• U.S.-China Trade Reform
• Veterans Administration Reforms
• Tax Reform
• Second Amendment Rights
• Immigration Reform

And frankly, his "tax reform" doesn't add up. It claims to be revenue neutral, but it really can't be. Somebody's taxes are going to go up.