The Republican Primary Race Is Filling Up

[bwframe]

Whatever happened to the dogs and fire hoses?

Community organizers.

 

[jamil]

So your stance is that Kelly didn't lie? So can you screen cap me from his website where it says the line she is quoting? Not to mention you've still failed to show what he was changing from.

You said Trump hasn't flipflopped. I showed you where he had. And then you deflect with THAT? WTF? You strain a gnat and swallow a camel!

I'm pretty sure you know how to read. You're on INGO. Read the exchange. Kelly read a quote that she attributed to his website. Trump didn't dispute the wording of her quote. He went on to say he's changing his position on H-1B's. I image that the website probably said what she said it said at the time she referenced it. If you have some evidence that prove's it's never said it, then we can say she lied. But even if she lied about that one little gnat, you still have to deal with the camel.

I mean, c'mon dude. It's okay if your god bleeds. If you say, "so what, so he flipflops, I don't care. He's my middle finger. I'm voting for him because I want to blow this **** up."

Okay, fine. I don't agree with it, but I can at least respect that. At least that's intellectually honest. But irrationally defending him against the facts, man, that's just nuts.

 

[Twangbanger]

I bothered to go to the Trump website just now, and I can't find anything about the H1B Visa issue? All I see is stuff about China and WTO.

Without knowing more, I suspect we may be getting into an issue of nuance on the H1B issue. I read a fascinating article a while back about the Disney initiative to have some of their data-entry people train workers from India to do their jobs. I was left a little fuzzy on whether the long-term plan was to just have Indians performing the work here, or have them learn the job here, then eventually offshore the entire job function to a shop in India.

What I did get from that article, however, is that these people were not high-skill workers. They were performing a fairly ordinary function. Now you can have an argument about whether that kind of job can/should be an aspiration for Americans. But the point was, the H1B program was supposed to be a program for finding "special" skills outside our borders, that do not exist here. Not simply taking jobs for which an abundance of Americans are available, and re-sourcing those jobs to someone cheaper from abroad.

So without knowing Trump's actual position on this issue (I couldn't find it), I can see room for nuance here. I can see how you'd be in _favor_ of using H1Bs for their intended purpose, which is procuring "special" skills; but _not_ in favor of mis-using them for unintended purposes, namely, cheapening wage scales of ordinary jobs for which plenty of applicants already exist. If that were the case here, then I would not consider that a "flip-flop" on Trump's part.

Another interesting tidbit I got from that article, was that the majority of these Visas are not being "reserved" by individuals. They're being reserved by what amount to hiring firms. Not that that's inherently underhanded or anything, but...I'm just amazed at the number of companies which exist for the purpose of seemingly "third-worlding" America. The hotels in California that cater to wealthy Chinese who want to drop babies here, thereby securing for their offspring the valuable commodity of a US citizenship. The companies that specialize in refugee resettlement. The companies who reserve work Visas, then go hunt for the people to fill them. If I had to guess where these corporations come down on the issue of the "GOP Establishment," I'd be willing to bet relations are pretty warm between them and the "Jeb wing" of the Party.

 

[Tombs]

You said Trump hasn't flipflopped. I showed you where he had. And then you deflect with THAT? WTF? You strain a gnat and swallow a camel!

I'm pretty sure you know how to read. You're on INGO. Read the exchange. Kelly read a quote that she attributed to his website. Trump didn't dispute the wording of her quote. He went on to say he's changing his position on H-1B's. I image that the website probably said what she said it said at the time she referenced it. If you have some evidence that prove's it's never said it, then we can say she lied. But even if she lied about that one little gnat, you still have to deal with the camel.

I mean, c'mon dude. It's okay if your god bleeds. If you say, "so what, so he flipflops, I don't care. He's my middle finger. I'm voting for him because I want to blow this **** up."

Okay, fine. I don't agree with it, but I can at least respect that. At least that's intellectually honest. But irrationally defending him against the facts, man, that's just nuts.

I provided 2 links to his website on the previous page, both various older dates, including one from long before that debate, the words have never changed.

He may of very well not known his written positions. I'm sure he does nothing more that suggest an outline and has others write his policy.

The fact remains, if kelly lied, then the entire context for the question is changed. And for that matter, I couldn't possibly care less whether you respect my views or opinions.

 

[Tombs]

I bothered to go to the Trump website just now, and I can't find anything about the H1B Visa issue? All I see is stuff about China and WTO.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

Open this page, press ctrl+f and type in H-1B, it will take you directly to it.

 

[jamil]

I bothered to go to the Trump website just now, and I can't find anything about the H1B Visa issue? All I see is stuff about China and WTO.

Let me google that for you. It's near the bottom.

Without knowing more, I suspect we may be getting into an issue of nuance on the H1B issue. I read a fascinating article a while back about the Disney initiative to have some of their data-entry people train workers from India to do their jobs. I was left a little fuzzy on whether the long-term plan was to just have Indians performing the work here, or have them learn the job here, then eventually offshore the entire job function to a shop in India.

What I did get from that article, however, is that these people were not high-skill workers. They were performing a fairly ordinary function. Now you can have an argument about whether that kind of job can/should be an aspiration for Americans. But the point was, the H1B program was supposed to be a program for finding "special" skills outside our borders, that do not exist here. Not simply taking jobs for which an abundance of Americans are available, and re-sourcing those jobs to someone cheaper from abroad.

So without knowing Trump's actual position on this issue (I couldn't find it), I can see room for nuance here. I can see how you'd be in _favor_ of using H1Bs for their intended purpose, which is procuring "special" skills; but _not_ in favor of mis-using them for unintended purposes, namely, cheapening wage scales of ordinary jobs for which plenty of applicants already exist. If that were the case here, then I would not consider that a "flip-flop" on Trump's part.

Another interesting tidbit I got from that article, was that the majority of these Visas are not being "reserved" by individuals. They're being reserved by what amount to hiring firms. Not that that's inherently underhanded or anything, but...I'm just amazed at the number of companies which exist for the purpose of seemingly "third-worlding" America. The hotels in California that cater to wealthy Chinese who want to drop babies here, thereby securing for their offspring the valuable commodity of a US citizenship. The companies that specialize in refugee resettlement. The companies who reserve work Visas, then go hunt for the people to fill them. If I had to guess where these corporations come down on the issue of the "GOP Establishment," I'd be willing to bet relations are pretty warm between them and the "Jeb wing" of the Party.

I think H-1B visas are overused. They aren't used for their stated purpose. They're used to hire cheap tech labor.

 

[jamil]

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

Open this page, press ctrl+f and type in H-1B, it will take you directly to it.

You scooped me. That's what I get for watching the Chicago riot while posting.

 

[Alpo]

I remember reading a conversation Steve Jobs had where he indicated that moving production onshore to the USA would be a tremendous issue because we had so few mechanical/production engineers in the states. I remember a number of around 85,000 engineers in China involved with the Apple supply chain.

Political discussion of the problem is probably beyond the IQ level (and attention span) of most politicians (vaginas are about as technical as these guys generally get), Trump included. AFAIK, Trump never built anything bigger than a handicap card growing up.

 

[olhorseman]

Maybe the protest in Chicago was not instigated by the Dem's but the brainchild of the GOPe. Obviously, it was the diabolical plan discussed in Jeb's meeting with the other candidates.

 

[BugI02]

So the Trumpster hasn't been on the wrong side of an issue? Interesting to note. Your original post listed positions that Fiorina had and then flip flopped on, just like the Trump. I don't care who you are supporting, just don't pretend "your guy" is something he isn't. He says everything is negotiable. He says he is a deal maker. As I understand it, his book on the Deal says to take far out positions to try to move your opposition further in your direction. I don't think we are going to see any real change if he gets in, just more of the same.

[video=youtube;NglssDgZ-yE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NglssDgZ-yE[/video]

Trump wrote The Art of the Deal in 1987. If you are going to make this argument than what prevents it from being equally true that this 1999 position on abortion was not simply 'setting an anchor' in a negotiation. Those that don't seem to care for Trump belabor the point that we cannot believe anything he says - until he says something they want to hold up as a reason to discredit him. Then we are supposed to take anything Trump said, no matter how long ago, as gospel

 

[BugI02]

He promises to build a significant piece of infrastructure across multiple parcels of private property, but have not heard him once say anything about compensating the owners. Is there insight there?

As opposed to promising to ammend the constitution to require us to balance our budgets when he can't get one of his colleagues to endorse his candidacy ( or maybe one. I haven't kept up but I think he was rumored to be about to get one ) Deferring judgement for now on whether the ammendment would be a good idea, I believe you need the co-operation of the legislative branch to proceed in that direction. I see Cruz in four years telling us we need to re-elect him to finish the job that he (wont have even) started.

An equally significant construct without the co-operation of the stake-holders

 

[BugI02]

Makes perfect sense to keep Trump from getting the nomination. The goal is [STRIKE]convention[/STRIKE] to retain control.

FTFY

 

[BugI02]

Tell me the rules of the game, and I will play the game. Rubio and Kasich have no hope of getting the nomination unless there is a contested convention. The rules of the convention are that if no candidate wins on the first ballot, then they start the process of moving delegates from one candidate to another. They hope that they will be the one to get those delegates to move to them. Suddenly it becomes important who those delegates are and how solid they are for their nominee. Cruz still hopes that after Ohio and Florida that the other two get out and he can try to win the further contests down the line. I have already opined on what I think it will do to the party if it goes to a contested convention and Trump is the vote leader but does not get the nomination. That does not appear to be a consideration of anyone in the party leadership though.

It is a scorched earth policy with no end game. All the marbles are on defeating Trump and if they fail they've recklessly done enormous damage to any chance of electing a candidate in November. They like to point out how Trump is damaging the GOP 'brand' but ignore the greater damage they are themselves inflicting. I just don't get the idea that a less than perfect victory is somehow inferior to a loss

 

[BugI02]

As evidenced by his clothing line being made in America.

Or his money lodged in a 'tax advantaged' location, like say the Caymans?

 

[MisterChester]

At least Rubio came out and defended the Trump supporters in Chicago. Not surprisingly, Cruz, attacks Trump. That man is a piece of trash that does not give a crap about the 1st amendment.

 

[BugI02]

I went back and reviewed the footage from that debate.

I don't know, I'm still looking for where he said something he'd have to change from, or soften, to be able to be considered to be flip-flopping. His website's policy does not claim to end the H1-B program, and I haven't heard him say as such anywhere.

I think something got lost in communication somewhere.

LA Times

End H-1B visa program's abuse

"Critics of the program contend that many companies use the visas to displace American workers and drive down salaries, both of which are expressly prohibited by law."

This is not a new assertion, it has been going on for more than 20 years. I can remember reading a weeklong feature in the same paper while in LA in the 90's.
I remember that at the time Microsoft had hired less than 1% of all applicants in the preceding 8 mos for programming jobs while lobbying for more H-1B visas to fill jobs it was having difficulty filling. It turned out that it wasn't skilled programmers it was having trouble finding, it was skilled programmers who would work for $25k per year. And don't forget that these people are high tech indentured servants. If the company that sponsors your visa drops said sponsorship, you go home. They lack any ability to market their skills to other companies to increase their earnings. Hence the name 'techno-coolies'

 

[BugI02]

LA Times

Companies gaming the visa system is a cruel trick on hard-working Americans

"These are H-1B visas, and if that sounds like a strain of flu, they are in a way: They’re very contagious. More American companies are demanding that Congress authorize more than the 85,000 H-1Bs now allowed every year. Businesses can contract with companies that get those temporary work permit visas, and then pay foreigners less than American workers. The workers get sent home when the visas expire. No messy longtime hometown employees to contend with, no retirement plans to pay into, no unions to butt heads with."


"The visas are supposedly reserved for “specialty occupations” that require “highly specialized knowledge” that companies supposedly can’t find American workers to fill.
But the fact that the fired American workers are training the foreigners who are replacing them shows that rule for the fiction it is."

 

[BugI02]

Something something '...compete to sell you the rope you hang them with'

 

[Thor]

when he can't get one of his colleagues to endorse his candidacy

Mike Lee has endorsed Cruz which means a lot more to me than most of the rest of the chamber...

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Rubio: I still intend to support the Republican nominee "but it's getting harder every day."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/12/politics/marco-rubio-republican-nominee-donald-trump/index.html