The Republican Primary Race Is Filling Up

[Tombs]

You're betting on the come that Trump is what he's portraying himself to be since announcing his candidacy (except where his mask slips a bit). We know what Hillary is but we don't know what Trump is because he's been on every side of every issue and not once has he ever explained (that I've heard) how he came to change his mind on so many things. I know peoples' attitudes and philosophies change but generally it takes more than deciding which party you think you might have the best chance to win with and appearing to adopt those positions to appear to "fit in".

As I've said on previous occasions, I'm not locked in on this decision but I'm drawing nearer to the position that I'm not sure I want my endorsement on a Trump presidency. Others are free to do as their conscience dictates.

Every side of every issue? Please, tell me more about Donald Trump being pro-illegal immigration!

Donald Trump on Immigration

Please look things up before you say ridiculous things.

As far as abortion, he gave a speech about why he changed his position on it, I watched it live.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Donald_Trump_Abortion.htm

How about Trade?

http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Donald_Trump_Free_Trade.htm

List goes on and on, stop grabbing for straws. He's fairly hardcore conservative on effectual issues, on football issues his views have changed over time.
And if you want to consider those changes to be negative, then please go out and show me where Trump has moved from the right to the left.

 

[pudly]

From the "even a stopped clock is right twice/day" department:

The biggest risk we can take is to try the same old politics with the same old players and expect a different result.
-Barack Obama, Democratic National Convention 2008

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Every side of every issue? Please, tell me more about Donald Trump being pro-illegal immigration!

Donald Trump on Immigration

Please look things up before you say ridiculous things.

First Trump was against H1B's now he's for them. He's against illegal immigration but has a history of using illegal immigrants or workers in his employ. Yeah, he's a died in the wool supporter of the American worker.

(Yeah, I know H1Bs are perfectly legal but after being against them and then subsequently saying "everything is negotiable", and when he felt like more triangulation was necessary, bang--H1Bs aren't so bad afterall.---I'm listening to what he's saying, not just he has somebody type up into a position statement).

 

[jamil]

What are the barriers that you would remove using government?

government

 

[Tombs]

First Trump was against H1B's now he's for them. He's against illegal immigration but has a history of using illegal immigrants or workers in his employ. Yeah, he's a died in the wool supporter of the American worker.

(Yeah, I know H1Bs are perfectly legal but after being against them and then subsequently saying "everything is negotiable", and when he felt like more triangulation was necessary, bang--H1Bs aren't so bad afterall.---I'm listening to what he's saying, not just he has somebody type up into a position statement).

And I'm supposed to just take your word for that? No sources cited?

He supports use of H1B visas for highly educated people, with provisions that pay is equal for an American worker so that the American worker is not shafted by them.

As far as using illegals, he uses contractors. Is he supposed to vet every single employee for every single contractor he hires? Seriously? Are we going to go back 30 years to dig up the issue with the Polish workers?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

And I'm supposed to just take your word for that? No sources cited?

He supports use of H1B visas for highly educated people, with provisions that pay is equal for an American worker so that the American worker is not shafted by them.

As far as using illegals, he uses contractors. Is he supposed to vet every single employee for every single contractor he hires? Seriously? Are we going to go back 30 years to dig up the issue with the Polish workers?

Believe what you want. All I know is what I've heard him say on various occasions.

 

[Tombs]

Believe what you want. All I know is what I've heard him say on various occasions.

Cite Sources.

 

[jamil]

Yes: the end of the country as we know it.

I'm not willing to take that chance, under any circumstances.

You think Trump makes that outcome less likely. Other people think their choice makes that outcome less likely. And still other people think it doesn't really matter, that either one is just different flavors of bad. No matter what, we're all taking chances. People who disagree with you are probably reasoning on different assumptions than you. And that leads them to a different place. If you don't like that, convince them that your assumptions are correct and maybe they'll end up in the same place. Or maybe you might need to consider someone else's assumptions.

 

[jamil]

Believe what you want. All I know is what I've heard him say on various occasions.

Cite Sources.

Well, if it goes like Trump conversations have gone, it sounds like it would be just another goat **** exercise. I'm not convinced that you're capable of admitting that Trump has any faults. People have cited. People have reasoned. And you have rationalized.

 

[Tombs]

Well, if it goes like Trump conversations have gone, it sounds like it would be just another goat **** exercise. I'm not convinced that you're capable of admitting that Trump has any faults. People have cited. People have reasoned. And you have rationalized.

Where have people cited this H1B visa flip-flop source?

 

[T.Lex]

Cite Sources.

I thought we actually covered this in this thread?

Donald Trump says he's changing H1B position - Business Insider

Trump shrugged off the question and said he was in favor of the visas.
"I'm changing. I'm changing. We need highly skilled people in this country," Trump said. "And if we can't do it, we'll get them in."

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Cite Sources.

I'm not that motivated to change your mind. Like I've said, I've listened to him talk on many different occasions and my position is the sum total of the stuff he's said.

 

[Tombs]

I thought we actually covered this in this thread?

Donald Trump says he's changing H1B position - Business Insider

[/FONT][/COLOR]

https://web.archive.org/web/20160101130750/https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

Even tried going back to 2015 https://web.archive.org/web/20150817040019/https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

 

[jamil]

I thought we actually covered this in this thread?

Donald Trump says he's changing H1B position - Business Insider

[/FONT][/COLOR]

And then after saying he was going to change his website to reflect his "changed" heart, he didn't change his website. I have no idea what he really thinks about H1b. In fact, I have no idea what he really thinks about anything, except himself, and the deal. Those two things he seems to be pretty solidly in favor of.

 

[Alpo]

Cite Sources.

Enough. Please. Your argumentation is disingenuous if you fail to recognize the inherent dishonesty in Trump's campaign.

His take on the major issues? Which date?

Donald Trump on the Issues

 

[T.Lex]

https://web.archive.org/web/20160101130750/https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

Even tried going back to 2015 https://web.archive.org/web/20150817040019/https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying he didn't change his position? Then why did he say that he did?

At some point, he lied. Or was mistaken about what he believed. Either way, it isn't good.

But, in fairness, it also doesn't matter. The electorate is not obligating him to hold any position. In fact, he is rewarded for pandering.

 

[jamil]

https://web.archive.org/web/20160101130750/https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

Even tried going back to 2015 https://web.archive.org/web/20150817040019/https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

Did you not watch the debates? I heard Trump get questioned about his own use of H1B workers and how that seemed inconsistent with his position stated on his website. He said he changed his mind and that his website would be changed to reflect that. But he didn't do what he said. So apparently he flip-flopped during the debate to deflect the implied hypocrisy, and then kept the same policy on his website to continue pandering to his audience.

 

[Route 45]

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying he didn't change his position? Then why did he say that he did?

At some point, he lied. Or was mistaken about what he believed. Either way, it isn't good.

But, in fairness, it also doesn't matter. The electorate is not obligating him to hold any position. In fact, he is rewarded for pandering.

A large part of the electorate simply want to punish the establishment for ignoring voters for the last 20-30 years. No better punch in the face to the elites than voting for Trump or Sanders.
Donald Trump is winning, and an avowed socialist just beat Hillary in Michigan. Michigan. Let that sink in.

 

[Tombs]

Did you not watch the debates? I heard Trump get questioned about his own use of H1B workers and how that seemed inconsistent with his position stated on his website. He said he changed his mind and that his website would be changed to reflect that. But he didn't do what he said. So apparently he flip-flopped during the debate to deflect the implied hypocrisy, and then kept the same policy on his website to continue pandering to his audience.

I'm careful about what I hear him say in debates, it usually requires a bit of thinking and analyzing to get to the bottom of it.

A lot of it is formulated speech to trip up the press and make a headline the next day for more free advertisement.

The policy I've heard him preaching since the beginning is the policy I see sitting on his website still today, so it's hard for me to see what you're seeing.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Yeah, he's a died in the wool supporter of the American worker.

As evidenced by his clothing line being made in America.