The Republican Primary Race Is Filling Up

[Thor]

How in the hell a news org spreads a fake story about candidate 1.... and candidate 2 runs with it after it was denied.... INGO people come to blame candidate 1.... is beyond me.

Actually, it's about ethics in political election journalism.

I do not blame 1: Rubio or 2: Cruz for this story. I do not blame either for their positions trying to take advantage of it or make money off of it or spin their opponents as dishonest. None of this is needful of reflecting the truth, and none of it is necessarily linked directly to the candidates themselves. I understand the 'culture of corruption' argument, but if their culture of corruption is based a some volunteer enthusiasm and is not really nation shaking stuff (like personally lying to congress, the people, and families about an embassy attack) then I guess I'm not seriously irked.

Ethics in journalism does not exist, never really has...ever. It's about selling copy, not the truth.

I will make my own determination. I did watch Cruz do 40 mins at CPAC without notes or a teleprompter and he IMHO rocked it. He not only identified the problems (which Rubio does well) he outlined his solutions and vision for the country (which Rubio does not do). I'd recommend watching it and making your own determination. Of course, if you watch it from the perspective of 'he's a liar and I don't believe him' don't bother.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I'd recommend watching it and making your own determination. Of course, if you watch it from the perspective of 'he's a liar and I don't believe him' don't bother.

I've not been in the anti-Cruz camp. I've always liked him and would have been happy to vote for him.

He speaks well enough (doesn't know the definition of brevity, though) and has a great message most of the time. I'm fine with that. His recent tactics, however, are what's bothering me... I'd prefer to see him get out of the mud and just run a good campaign. Continuing to run fake stories for political gain **** me off, as it only enables people like CNN, et al.

I'm still fine with voting for Cruz, but if it's shown and proven that his campaign is blatantly lying (and he isn't stopping it), it's going to come to a point where I can't support him.

 

[chipbennett]

I'm a Cruz guy. However I don't want to vote for somebody who is not as they portray themselves. I'd like to read the links you have that have caused you to arrive at this position.

My thoughts exactly, though worded in a much more polite format.

We'll start with the non-linked commentary. The few times I have watched Cruz speechifying, I watch him lie through his teeth about other candidates - made all the more despicable since he shields himself with his Bible. Similarly, Cruz pulled extremely dirty tricks in Iowa (VOTER VIOLATION mailer), lied directly to caucus-goers about other candidates (Carson), and is doing the same thing now with Rubio in Florida.

Cruz claims to be a "consistent Conservative", but is anything but. This is admittedly a pro-Trump video, so consider the bias. But while context can be biased, the fact of Cruz changing positions cannot be:

[video=youtube;6VckRA4tYFo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VckRA4tYFo[/video]

Things that I can link to regarding Cruz positions/policy/issues:

Ted Cruz voted (procedurally) to authorize TPP/TPA fast-track (before voting "against" it):

Yes, Unfortunately Ted Cruz Did Support Trans-Pacific Trade Deal (TPA) ? With Video? | The Last Refuge

Ted Cruz has a conflict-of-interest issue with Goldman Sachs (wife Heidi is a longtime employee/investment banker), and failed to report Goldman Sachs campaign loans (this is kind of a big deal):

Ted Cruz?s Goldman Sachs Problem - The New Yorker

The TPP/Goldman Sachs issues are very much connected:

The Debate Issue The Wall Street Funded RNC/GOPe Refuse To Allow? | The Last Refuge

Ted Cruz proposed amnesty during the Gang of Eight fiasco. (Even if it was a gambit/poison pill, amnesty for illegals is inherently wrong, and I disagree with Cruz that he had to propose the amendment in order to prove that Republicans had to "do something".)

Blue State Blues: Ted Cruz Is 100% Right About Gang of Eight

Ted Cruz also joined Glen Beck in his "give teddy bears and soccer balls to illegal alien children" ruse in 2014:

Everything You Need to Know About Mercury One?s Border Relief Effort | TheBlaze.com

Ted Cruz criticized Trump for a non-repudiation (that was actually a repudiation) of a non-endorsement, while he himself actively campaigns with an extreme, anti-gay bigot Bryan Fischer:

Ted Cruz Campaigning Tomorrow In Mississippi With Extremist Bryan ?Arrest All The Gays? Fischer? | The Last Refuge

Ted Cruz preaches privacy, and protection against government intrusion on that privacy - then creates a data-mining, user-monitoring/surveillance campaign app that severely violates privacy:

Cruz app data collection helps campaign read minds of voters

I have no idea what's in Ted Cruz's records (or in his mother's), nor do I have any opinion on his NBC status, but I am bothered that someone proclaiming integrity and transparency would have/keep such records sealed.

I am troubled by the Dominionist beliefs of Ted Cruz's family:

Ted Cruz?s Father: My Son ?Anointed? To ?Take Control of Society?.. | The Last Refuge

I am troubled by the use of proselytizing as an electoral strategy. We are electing a secular office-holder, not a religious leader:

Sen. Ted Cruz Tells Volunteers: We Can Win 'If We Awaken And Energize The Body Of Christ" - Breitbart

 

[chipbennett]

Circling back to an earlier topic about GOPe preferring Hillary Clinton to Donald Trump:

Bret Baier: Some Republicans Could Back Clinton Over Trump

“Listen, there are Republicans in Washington who are privately saying that already,” Baier told TheWrap on Monday. “Maybe some don’t publicly say it, but I think there are some who are that adamant about it who would.”

Inside the beltway "R" and "D" are meaningless. There is only the UniParty.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Hey, Donald Trump conned people in a pyramid scheme!? *polls go up 5 points*

Donald Trump -- Trump Network?s Failure Harmed Small Investors

 

[Jludo]

Hey, Donald Trump conned people in a pyramid scheme!? *polls go up 5 points*

Donald Trump -- Trump Network?s Failure Harmed Small Investors

Just think if how well he can con other countries on our behalf now.
He really cares about his fellow Americans, not just himself...

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I'll read through these. I skimmed a couple and my first impression is they read like some of those 9/11-truther articles some of my friends keep sending me as proof.

We'll start with the non-linked commentary. The few times I have watched Cruz speechifying, I watch him lie through his teeth about other candidates - made all the more despicable since he shields himself with his Bible. Similarly, Cruz pulled extremely dirty tricks in Iowa (VOTER VIOLATION mailer), lied directly to caucus-goers about other candidates (Carson), and is doing the same thing now with Rubio in Florida.

Cruz claims to be a "consistent Conservative", but is anything but. This is admittedly a pro-Trump video, so consider the bias. But while context can be biased, the fact of Cruz changing positions cannot be:

[video=youtube;6VckRA4tYFo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VckRA4tYFo[/video]

Things that I can link to regarding Cruz positions/policy/issues:

Ted Cruz voted (procedurally) to authorize TPP/TPA fast-track (before voting "against" it):

Yes, Unfortunately Ted Cruz Did Support Trans-Pacific Trade Deal (TPA) ? With Video? | The Last Refuge

Ted Cruz has a conflict-of-interest issue with Goldman Sachs (wife Heidi is a longtime employee/investment banker), and failed to report Goldman Sachs campaign loans (this is kind of a big deal):

Ted Cruz?s Goldman Sachs Problem - The New Yorker

The TPP/Goldman Sachs issues are very much connected:

The Debate Issue The Wall Street Funded RNC/GOPe Refuse To Allow? | The Last Refuge

Ted Cruz proposed amnesty during the Gang of Eight fiasco. (Even if it was a gambit/poison pill, amnesty for illegals is inherently wrong, and I disagree with Cruz that he had to propose the amendment in order to prove that Republicans had to "do something".)

Blue State Blues: Ted Cruz Is 100% Right About Gang of Eight

Ted Cruz also joined Glen Beck in his "give teddy bears and soccer balls to illegal alien children" ruse in 2014:

Everything You Need to Know About Mercury One?s Border Relief Effort | TheBlaze.com

Ted Cruz criticized Trump for a non-repudiation (that was actually a repudiation) of a non-endorsement, while he himself actively campaigns with an extreme, anti-gay bigot Bryan Fischer:

Ted Cruz Campaigning Tomorrow In Mississippi With Extremist Bryan ?Arrest All The Gays? Fischer? | The Last Refuge

Ted Cruz preaches privacy, and protection against government intrusion on that privacy - then creates a data-mining, user-monitoring/surveillance campaign app that severely violates privacy:

Cruz app data collection helps campaign read minds of voters

I have no idea what's in Ted Cruz's records (or in his mother's), nor do I have any opinion on his NBC status, but I am bothered that someone proclaiming integrity and transparency would have/keep such records sealed.

I am troubled by the Dominionist beliefs of Ted Cruz's family:

Ted Cruz?s Father: My Son ?Anointed? To ?Take Control of Society?.. | The Last Refuge

I am troubled by the use of proselytizing as an electoral strategy. We are electing a secular office-holder, not a religious leader:

Sen. Ted Cruz Tells Volunteers: We Can Win 'If We Awaken And Energize The Body Of Christ" - Breitbart

 

[ArcadiaGP]

edit: fake

 

[chipbennett]

I'll read through these. I skimmed a couple and my first impression is they read like some of those 9/11-truther articles some of my friends keep sending me as proof.

No factual rebuttal?

• Has or has not Cruz engaged in a pattern of dirty campaign tactics and lying about his opponents?
• Has or has not Cruz flip-flopped on several issues?
• Did or did not Cruz provide procedural vote support that allowed TPP/TAP fast-track to pass the senate (even though he voted against final passage)?
• Did or did not Cruz submit an amendment that would give citizenship to illegal aliens?
• Did or did not Cruz fail to report his Goldman Sachs loan? Did or did not Cruz lie about that loan? Is or is not Heidi Cruz an employee of Goldman Sachs?
• Did or did not Cruz join Glen Beck in his "teddy bears for illegal alien children" ruse?
• Is or is not Cruz campaigning with Bryan Fisher?
• Did or did not Cruz release a data-mining/privacy-invading campaign app?
• Are or are not Cruz's records sealed?
• Are or are not Cruz's family Dominionists?
• Does or does not Cruz engage in proselytizing as electoral strategy?

These are the things that concern me about Ted Cruz. You asked for cited links, and then instead of addressing the substance, rejected the sources. That's your prerogative, but it certainly isn't a sincere interest in understanding why someone who once supported Cruz no longer supports him.

 

[JTScribe]

Sooooo.... now there's talk about Trump's wife. If he wins the White House, she'll be the first First Lady to have been nude in print.
Classing the place up.

If Rubio wins will he be the first President that's a former stripper?

Classing the place up.

 

[Thor]

they read like some of those 9/11-truther articles some of my friends keep sending me as proof.

Ditto

 

[jamil]

If Rubio wins will he be the first President that's a former stripper?

Classing the place up.

Could be a lot of firsts. Trump's wife could be the first First Lady to have posed in the nude at 30K feet.

 

[chipbennett]

Ditto

• Has or has not Cruz engaged in a pattern of dirty campaign tactics and lying about his opponents?
• Has or has not Cruz flip-flopped on several issues?
• Did or did not Cruz provide procedural vote support that allowed TPP/TAP fast-track to pass the senate (even though he voted against final passage)?
• Did or did not Cruz submit an amendment that would give citizenship to illegal aliens?
• Did or did not Cruz fail to report his Goldman Sachs loan? Did or did not Cruz lie about that loan? Is or is not Heidi Cruz an employee of Goldman Sachs?
• Did or did not Cruz join Glen Beck in his "teddy bears for illegal alien children" ruse?
• Is or is not Cruz campaigning with Bryan Fisher?
• Did or did not Cruz release a data-mining/privacy-invading campaign app?
• Are or are not Cruz's records sealed?
• Are or are not Cruz's family Dominionists?
• Does or does not Cruz engage in proselytizing as electoral strategy?

 

[MisterChester]

If Rubio wins will he be the first President that's a former stripper?

Classing the place up.

W was a cheerleader, so this isn't crazy.

 

[jamil]

Dude. Pick your poison. Because they're all poison.

• Has or has not Cruz engaged in a pattern of dirty campaign tactics and lying about his opponents?
• Has or has not Cruz flip-flopped on several issues?
• Did or did not Cruz provide procedural vote support that allowed TPP/TAP fast-track to pass the senate (even though he voted against final passage)?
• Did or did not Cruz submit an amendment that would give citizenship to illegal aliens?
• Did or did not Cruz fail to report his Goldman Sachs loan? Did or did not Cruz lie about that loan? Is or is not Heidi Cruz an employee of Goldman Sachs?
• Did or did not Cruz join Glen Beck in his "teddy bears for illegal alien children" ruse?
• Is or is not Cruz campaigning with Bryan Fisher?
• Did or did not Cruz release a data-mining/privacy-invading campaign app?
• Are or are not Cruz's records sealed?
• Are or are not Cruz's family Dominionists?
• Does or does not Cruz engage in proselytizing as electoral strategy?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

No factual rebuttal?

• Has or has not Cruz engaged in a pattern of dirty campaign tactics and lying about his opponents?
• Has or has not Cruz flip-flopped on several issues?
• Did or did not Cruz provide procedural vote support that allowed TPP/TAP fast-track to pass the senate (even though he voted against final passage)?
• Did or did not Cruz submit an amendment that would give citizenship to illegal aliens?
• Did or did not Cruz fail to report his Goldman Sachs loan? Did or did not Cruz lie about that loan? Is or is not Heidi Cruz an employee of Goldman Sachs?
• Did or did not Cruz join Glen Beck in his "teddy bears for illegal alien children" ruse?
• Is or is not Cruz campaigning with Bryan Fisher?
• Did or did not Cruz release a data-mining/privacy-invading campaign app?
• Are or are not Cruz's records sealed?
• Are or are not Cruz's family Dominionists?
• Does or does not Cruz engage in proselytizing as electoral strategy?

These are the things that concern me about Ted Cruz. You asked for cited links, and then instead of addressing the substance, rejected the sources. That's your prerogative, but it certainly isn't a sincere interest in understanding why someone who once supported Cruz no longer supports him.

Sir, cool your jets.

If you'll carefully read what I posted, I said I'd "read through them". That means I haven't done so yet but intend to do so at a later time. I also said I skimmed through a couple of them and they appeared to read like 9/11-truther materials. When I get a chance to read through them more carefully, I might change my mind.

 

[MisterChester]

• Has or has not Cruz engaged in a pattern of dirty campaign tactics and lying about his opponents?
• Has or has not Cruz flip-flopped on several issues?
• Did or did not Cruz provide procedural vote support that allowed TPP/TAP fast-track to pass the senate (even though he voted against final passage)?
• Did or did not Cruz submit an amendment that would give citizenship to illegal aliens?
• Did or did not Cruz fail to report his Goldman Sachs loan? Did or did not Cruz lie about that loan? Is or is not Heidi Cruz an employee of Goldman Sachs?
• Did or did not Cruz join Glen Beck in his "teddy bears for illegal alien children" ruse?
• Is or is not Cruz campaigning with Bryan Fisher?
• Did or did not Cruz release a data-mining/privacy-invading campaign app?
• Are or are not Cruz's records sealed?
• Are or are not Cruz's family Dominionists?
• Does or does not Cruz engage in proselytizing as electoral strategy?

Plus he looks like a weird amphibian

 

[T.Lex]

• Has or has not Cruz engaged in a pattern of dirty campaign tactics and lying about his opponents?

If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin.

Not to be overly flippant about it, but pushing the edge is usually what Dems do. I'm ok with a certain amount of that from Rs.

• Has or has not Cruz flip-flopped on several issues?

Issues matter less to me than principles. Even then, some more than others.

• Did or did not Cruz provide procedural vote support that allowed TPP/TAP fast-track to pass the senate (even though he voted against final passage)?
• Did or did not Cruz submit an amendment that would give citizenship to illegal aliens?
• Did or did not Cruz fail to report his Goldman Sachs loan? Did or did not Cruz lie about that loan? Is or is not Heidi Cruz an employee of Goldman Sachs?
• Did or did not Cruz join Glen Beck in his "teddy bears for illegal alien children" ruse?
• Is or is not Cruz campaigning with Bryan Fisher?
• Did or did not Cruz release a data-mining/privacy-invading campaign app?
• Are or are not Cruz's records sealed?
• Are or are not Cruz's family Dominionists?
• Does or does not Cruz engage in proselytizing as electoral strategy?

With the exception of the Dominionist and proselytizing, those are all pretty "inside baseball" type stuff. And frankly, the religious part is what gives me the most pause. I prefer a religious person in politics generally, because it helps me understand their principles. But, there can be too much of a "good" thing.

All of those are preferable trade-offs to what I foresee getting from Trump.

 

[chipbennett]

Dude. Pick your poison. Because they're all poison.

I've certainly not said otherwise, but in this case, I was asked specifically what changed my mind about Cruz.

Sir, cool your jets.

If you'll carefully read what I posted, I said I'd "read through them". That means I haven't done so yet but intend to do so at a later time. I also said I skimmed through a couple of them and they appeared to read like 9/11-truther materials. When I get a chance to read through them more carefully, I might change my mind.

I'm not nearly as concerned with the presentation of facts as I am with the facts themselves. I'm not looking to change your mind about Cruz. If the things that are issues for me are not issues for you, that's perfectly understandable.

Plus he looks like a weird amphibian

*looks at self*

Nah, I don't think I'm going to call out anyone on their looks...

 

[chipbennett]

[/LIST]
If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin.

Not to be overly flippant about it, but pushing the edge is usually what Dems do. I'm ok with a certain amount of that from Rs.

Speaking as someone who has worked for a long time as an election supervisor, I'm not okay with any of it. I've worked very hard, in several elections, to ensure that the process and outcome are fair and impartial, for all participants.

Issues matter less to me than principles. Even then, some more than others.

It's kind of hard to evaluate someone's principles if that person takes both sides of so many issues. (That point applies to multiple candidates.)

With the exception of the Dominionist and proselytizing, those are all pretty "inside baseball" type stuff. And frankly, the religious part is what gives me the most pause. I prefer a religious person in politics generally, because it helps me understand their principles. But, there can be too much of a "good" thing.

But that "inside baseball" stuff demonstrates an important point: how can someone claim to be an anti-establishment outsider, while engaging in exactly the sort of "inside baseball" horse-trading and shenanigans that define the establishment?

All of those are preferable trade-offs to what I foresee getting from Trump.

That's certainly fair. I have similar reservations about Trump.

Trump could be a disaster, or he could spark a Reagan-esque economic/industrial recovery. But with Cruz (and Rubio and Kasich), there is a ZERO percent chance that anything will change meaningfully. All three of them are part of the establishment, in their own ways.