The Republic is dead.

[INgunowner]

If only there were some way to determine what was causing this type of thing to occur.

The symptoms are diverse, but the disease itself is quite easy to diagnose.

Individual Ignorance.

 

[ziggy]

W know the election was stolen, but will it matter?

 

[BugI02]

And that is what has kept our republic alive this long. The whigs, the bull moose, various other parties have come and gone.

Our system allows for the marketplace of [Facebook & MSM approved] ideas. The politicians who present the strongest [Google and Twitter approved] case for their ideas get elected.

Or, like in 2016 and 2020, people vote against candidates they don't like.

You dropped something

 

[INgunowner]

We shouldn't have monuments to celebrate any of our enemies, foreign or domestic, anywhere in the country.

I STRONGLY disagree with your assertion!!!

How easily do we forget the past?
How quickly do we discard it's lessons?
How dangerous are the times we face?

Danger is quickly forgotten when the scars those failed ideas are removed from our eyes, and thus from our hearts.

If YOU are incapable of articulating the failure of your opponents ideology, the failure is your own.

 

[IndyDave1776]

1) Just because Trump says something, does not make it true.

2) Read #1 until it sinks in.

3) States do not have any - ANY - legal authority to dictate how other states conduct elections. The position you take in your first point is unconstitutional. Congratulations on your switching sides to liberalism and a "living document" version of constitutional thought. Conservativism is sad to see you go that direction.

4) Trump has not been concerned about voting systems, other than perhaps lip service (pardon the pun). As POTUS, he had the opportunity to introduce reforms and incentivize actions. He did not. There may be many reasons for it, but it certainly appears that it was only convenient for him when he lost.

5) It does not defy my understanding that you believe Trump in all things.

6) The courts did what courts do - allowed the parties to present their claims and evaluated those claims based on a long tradition of application of the law. Trump's claims were found lacking and, generally, he did not appeal. That is not the fault of the judicial system.

1. WTF? Trump established a commission to verify voter rolls among other things. It isn't a matter of what he said, he acted (or at least tried) early in his term.

3. Only a crooked lawyer could make that argument. The particulars are one thing but fraud that damages the entire nation is another issue.

4. Did you spend 2017 in a coma?

5. It isn't a matter of believing Trump. It is believing I saw something damn well impossible with the architect of the fraud getting caught confessing to it. Just because I came to the same general conclusion that does not indicate Trump caused me to believe that. I would think that a lawyer worth a damn would understand that correlation does not prove causation. Then again, I would also think that a lawyer worth a damn would not prosecute someone for using the minimum response necessary to avoid getting chewed on.

6. Standing was in all cases but one of which I am aware the reason for dismissal. Nothing factual is proven in that.

 

[INgunowner]

my only real concern, equality,

You'll never get it,
It seems a great number have failed to learn this fundamental fact,

Insisting on a fair fight is the first step in ensuring your defeat.

 

[CampingJosh]

Meanwhile in Seattle...

View attachment 120059

CJ, I don't think you're actually wrong here, but this sort of wild double standard is what has people's blood boiling. We shouldn't have monuments to celebrate any of our enemies, foreign or domestic, anywhere in the country. If we're going to stand the ground of being free speech absolutists, then we have to stand that ground the entire way and allow it all. If we're not, then we get what he have now where it appears the speech of some is more equal than others.

I'm more than happy with tearing that one down, too.

It's really not a "free speech" issue because these statues are on on public property. The government doesn't get free speech; the people get free speech.

 

[IndyDave1776]

America was founded as a Republic form of government. Too many today freely use the term democracy. The problem with democracy is it can become mob rule. A democracy is always temporary. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate(s) who promise the most benefits with the result of eventual collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is followed by dictatorship.

The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations progressed through the following sequence:

1. From bondage to spiritual faith
2. From spiritual faith to great courage
3. From courage to liberty
4. From liberty to abundance
5. From abundance to complacency
6. From complacency to apathy
7. From apathy to dependence
8. From dependency back into bondage

Where do you believe we stand right now in this cycle ? I believe we are at the end of apathy and very close to dependency. Leftists keep encouraging people to depend on them. "We'll take care of you ! Trust us !"

I am going to say we are at about 7.8

 

[maxwelhse]

I'm more than happy with tearing that one down, too.

It's really not a "free speech" issue because these statues are on on public property. The government doesn't get free speech; the people get free speech.

So, people now need to agree that we're going one way or the other with that issue and then shake hands and move on.

The problem is that nobody seems willing to do that.

 

[maxwelhse]

I STRONGLY disagree with your assertion!!!

How easily do we forget the past?
How quickly do we discard it's lessons?
How dangerous are the times we face?

Danger is quickly forgotten when the scars those failed ideas are removed from our eyes, and thus from our hearts.

If YOU are incapable of articulating the failure of your opponents ideology, the failure is your own.

My assertion was that if we're going to celebrate one group of horrible political statues that we have to accept them all equally or none of them at all. CJ's point, which I'm in general agreement with, is that there is a huge difference between education and celebration. No one erected statues to the confederacy as a warning to the future to become educated. My point is that the Lenin statue isn't a warning either...

 

[INgunowner]

No one erected statues to the confederacy as a warning to the future to become educated

History whispers it's warning all the same,
Those deaf to his cry are doomed to repeat the cycle.

This world owes you nothing,
Certainly not equal representation.

 

[maxwelhse]

History whispers it's warning all the same,
Those deaf to his cry are doomed to repeat the cycle.

This world owes you nothing,
Certainly not equal representation.

OK. I expect you to be the most vocal defender of all of these monuments then. You're going to be awfully busy on INGO defending some of the more recent additions to the historical record that are going to be whispering for decades to come under your stewardship.





Or... You can stop trying to shoe horn whatever view you have of whatever it is you think I'm saying onto what I actually said. You seem to believe that I am somehow advocating for a revisionist view of history just because I disagree with the literal idolizing of America's enemies.

 

[IndyDave1776]

OK. I expect you to be the most vocal defender of all of these monuments then. You're going to be awfully busy on INGO defending some of the more recent additions to the historical record that are going to be whispering for decades to come under your stewardship.

View attachment 120066

View attachment 120067

Or... You can stop trying to shoe horn whatever view you have of whatever it is you think I'm saying onto what I actually said. You seem to believe that I am somehow advocating for a revisionist view of history just because I disagree with the literal idolizing of America's enemies.

Can it be truly said that fighting against overreach, particularly in terms of tariffs that favored one group of states over another, makes a person an enemy?

 

[maxwelhse]

Can it be truly said that fighting against overreach, particularly in terms of tariffs that favored one group of states over another, makes a person an enemy?

...you actually about to go down the road of defending the confederacy as not an enemy of the United States?

 

[IndyDave1776]

...you actually about to go down the road of defending the confederacy as not an enemy of the United States?

My point is that there are two sides to the story in the first place and taxing the bejesus out of imports in order to prop up northern industry on the backs of the South is hardly innocent. Further, in this time before the state's were converted into mere subsidiaries of Washington, many honorable men (Lee is among the first to come to mind) went with their first loyalty, which was to their state. In historical context this was more akin to any of us siding with the United States against the UN than the way it looks to us AFTER a radical consolidation of power in Washington as a consequence of the war.

Also, I could remind you that in the near future you could become redefined as a felon. Do you consider it fair to have it presupposes that YOU are an enemy of the United States because of some treasonous pieces of **** inside the Washington beltway?

 

[maxwelhse]

Also, I could remind you that in the near future you could become redefined as a felon. Do you consider it fair to have it presupposes that YOU are an enemy of the United States because of some treasonous pieces of **** inside the Washington beltway?

So, yes, you're going to defend the confederacy as not an enemy of the USA.

As far as the quote above, I'll proudly die as an enemy of the state if that's how things go. If the USA goes on and someone builds a monument in my honor, I would be just as perplexed by that as I am the current state of affairs.

Also, please don't build any monuments in my honor.

 

[dekindy]

My only hope is that the Democrats will be as ineffective as they were during the first two years of Obama's initial term.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Also, please don't build any monuments in my honor.

I don’t think the city would let us erect an ***hole on the circle.



Obviously purple... but a light shade

 

[BigRed]

My point is that there are two sides to the story in the first place and taxing the bejesus out of imports in order to prop up northern industry on the backs of the South is hardly innocent. Further, in this time before the state's were converted into mere subsidiaries of Washington, many honorable men (Lee is among the first to come to mind) went with their first loyalty, which was to their state. In historical context this was more akin to any of us siding with the United States against the UN than the way it looks to us AFTER a radical consolidation of power in Washington as a consequence of the war.

Also, I could remind you that in the near future you could become redefined as a felon. Do you consider it fair to have it presupposes that YOU are an enemy of the United States because of some treasonous pieces of **** inside the Washington beltway?

Well said.

 

[maxwelhse]

I don’t think the city would let us erect an ***hole on the circle.



Obviously purple... but a light shade

If Georgia can do it...