The Real Costs of Electric Car Ownership - CNET

[actaeon277]

If only we had a thread for this

 

[BehindBlueI's]

If only we had a thread for this

In fairness, EV nonsense has infected a metric **** ton of non-EV nonsense threads, so turnabout and all that.

Maybe we can mention HOAs and cyclists?

 

[actaeon277]

In fairness, EV nonsense has infected a metric **** ton of non-EV nonsense threads, so turnabout and all that.

Maybe we can mention HOAs and cyclists?

Maybe HOAs will ban cyclists

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Maybe HOAs will ban cyclists

Get'em drunk enough and they might... amirite?

 

[indykid]

I love INGO! Where else can you open a thread on electric vehicles and find pages of debate on alcohol consumption!

 

[rhamersley]

I love INGO! Where else can you open a thread on electric vehicles and find pages of debate on alcohol consumption!

When's the pineapple pizza discussion start?

 

[KLB]

If only we had a thread for this

It is the rare thread that keeps on subject around here, especially after 142 pages.

 

[bwframe]

Why Ford Could Revive 2 High-Volume Vehicles, and Soon

As Ford looks toward the future of affordable EVs, the answer could be in its recent past.

finance.yahoo.com

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Fake news.

 

[Route 45]

Fake news.

You're right, I deleted it.

But it's not like they aren't thinking about it.

Caltrans pilot program tests replacing gas tax with charging per mile driven

Because of electric vehicles, California is making less in gas taxes so the state may start charging drivers by miles driven instead.

abc7.com

 

[BehindBlueI's]

You're right, I deleted it.

But it's not like they aren't thinking about it.

Caltrans pilot program tests replacing gas tax with charging per mile driven

Because of electric vehicles, California is making less in gas taxes so the state may start charging drivers by miles driven instead.

abc7.com

The overall program is correct, just the cost isn't. Essentially replacing gas tax with mileage tax based on fuel economy estimates with a per mile tax so that hybrids/EVs pay for road maintenance in the same proportions as ICE vehicles. I think it's more like 3-5 cents a mile but it's been awhile since I saw the stories about it on the various car sites.

Which, IMO, isn't as bad an idea as making ICE vehicles shoulder the whole burden if they can figure out a reasonable way to track it. I've no idea how it would work for out of state drivers, for example. Rental cars? Without GPSing every vehicle (and what happens if the GPS goes on the fritz legitimately or because I decided to wrap the antennae in foil?) how do you know if miles are in CA or somewhere else? What about trucking companies? Seems like a lot of questions would have to be answered and the simplest version is still "EVs pay more to register", though that has it's own fairness issues if they don't drive many miles I suppose.

 

[KLB]

The overall program is correct, just the cost isn't. Essentially replacing gas tax with mileage tax based on fuel economy estimates with a per mile tax so that hybrids/EVs pay for road maintenance in the same proportions as ICE vehicles. I think it's more like 3-5 cents a mile but it's been awhile since I saw the stories about it on the various car sites.

Which, IMO, isn't as bad an idea as making ICE vehicles shoulder the whole burden if they can figure out a reasonable way to track it. I've no idea how it would work for out of state drivers, for example. Rental cars? Without GPSing every vehicle (and what happens if the GPS goes on the fritz legitimately or because I decided to wrap the antennae in foil?) how do you know if miles are in CA or somewhere else? What about trucking companies?

Most of your issues already exist. There is no way to know where gas is purchased today. If bought in another state, the person is not paying Indiana for the miles driven.

Seems like a lot of questions would have to be answered and the simplest version is still "EVs pay more to register", though that has it's own fairness issues if they don't drive many miles I suppose.

That is my situation. It is just a price of having my car to me though.

 

[Wstar425]

The overall program is correct, just the cost isn't. Essentially replacing gas tax with mileage tax based on fuel economy estimates with a per mile tax so that hybrids/EVs pay for road maintenance in the same proportions as ICE vehicles. I think it's more like 3-5 cents a mile but it's been awhile since I saw the stories about it on the various car sites.

Which, IMO, isn't as bad an idea as making ICE vehicles shoulder the whole burden if they can figure out a reasonable way to track it. I've no idea how it would work for out of state drivers, for example. Rental cars? Without GPSing every vehicle (and what happens if the GPS goes on the fritz legitimately or because I decided to wrap the antennae in foil?) how do you know if miles are in CA or somewhere else? What about trucking companies? Seems like a lot of questions would have to be answered and the simplest version is still "EVs pay more to register", though that has it's own fairness issues if they don't drive many miles I suppose.

Well, to answer one little segment the trucking companies are already reporting and paying fuel tax on a per mile basis. Now it comes off the GPS driven Electronic Logging Device, but long ago we used to write down our miles at the state line, then every trip you had to fill out a mileage report to turn in. I don’t think any companies are doing that yet, maybe some guys driving 1999 and older trucks, older glider kits and such. Those have been outlawed a few years back I think, but I wasn’t in that part of trucking. Bach in the 80’s you had to keep track of how many miles you ran and then try to purchase enough fuel in each state to cover your miles, and be aware that some states would not reimburse you if you over purchased too much fuel for the miles ran in that state. It was a real cluster until at some point (1995ish) it went federal and Canadian and the members would sort out all your taxes you paid with how many miles in each state.

Having said all that, could something similar be done with who knows how many more automobiles?

Never underestimate the power of government to screw up with just the proper application of an appropriate amount of tax dollars. (Sarcasm intended)

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Most of your issues already exist. There is no way to know where gas is purchased today. If bought in another state, the person is not paying Indiana for the miles driven.

If the gas is bought in another state and the person passes through Indiana without refueling, the person is probably using the federal interstate system and paid the federal gas tax wherever they bought gas. I drove through Illinois without getting gas all the time because their gas was too expensive vs surrounding states, but I was always on the federal highway system.

I don't really see that as the same issue as someone with a CA registration who ends up driving thousands of miles outside of the state but has to pay CA tax on those same miles while also buying gas in those other states when they go to register.

 

[04FXSTS]

My wife and I just did our part to promote EVs, I went from a 2004 F-150 to a 2017 F-150 w/2.7 EcoBoost a couple months ago. Last week my wife traded her 2009 Prius hybrid for a 2019 Ford Escape with 1.5 EcoBoost. Figure we helped the environment by not running up the demand/price of EVs. Jim.

 

[KLB]

If the gas is bought in another state and the person passes through Indiana without refueling, the person is probably using the federal interstate system and paid the federal gas tax wherever they bought gas. I drove through Illinois without getting gas all the time because their gas was too expensive vs surrounding states, but I was always on the federal highway system.

I don't really see that as the same issue as someone with a CA registration who ends up driving thousands of miles outside of the state but has to pay CA tax on those same miles while also buying gas in those other states when they go to register.

That is such a small percentage of vehicles though. You plan for the 95%, not the fraction of 1%.

There is never anything fair about government tax systems.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

That is such a small percentage of vehicles though. You plan for the 95%, not the fraction of 1%.

There is never anything fair about government tax systems.

Cool, then there's no reason to keep track of miles at all. Just take whatever the gas tax budget shortfall was last year, divide by the number of EVs and full hybrids, tax each owner that much at registration time. Simple, unconcerned with fair, and the majority will pay something like what they probably drove.

 

[KLB]

Cool, then there's no reason to keep track of miles at all. Just take whatever the gas tax budget shortfall was last year, divide by the number of EVs and full hybrids, tax each owner that much at registration time. Simple, unconcerned with fair, and the majority will pay something like what they probably drove.

Again, it already isn't fair, but you can throw out silliness like that if you want.

 

[smokingman]

Maybe HOAs will ban cyclists

A quick google search and I found it is actually a fairly common rule in HOAs of gated communities "for safety",with a couple of them mentioning a child hit while on a bike and how the rule would "save lives".

The biggest problem with electric cars and data centers is the same problem. They both mean everyone from homeowners,to businesses,and government all will pay higher electric costs as supply is heading the wrong direction as demand increases. You can not shut off powerplants to be "super green"(in my best Ruby Rod from 5th element voice), and expect demands you are forcing into the electric system to somehow go down as well. We are already getting warnings about grid stability, soon even here in the midwest we very well could be like California with rolling blackouts. But "super green" is the cause(group think).

 

[JCSR]

This is normal because I read on INGO that gas powered vehicles burn up all the time.

Cybertruck inferno challenges DPS to identify victim, determine Tesla owner​

Cybertruck inferno challenges DPS to identify victim, determine Tesla owner

A fire that ignited following a Tesla Cybertruck crash in Chambers County was so severe, state troopers are having a tough time identifying the victim and getti

kfdm.com