The Real Costs of Electric Car Ownership - CNET

[jamil]

Obviously. And incentives are going to influence where that 'somewhere' is as lots of somewheres, US and foreign, are vying to be that somewhere. Like I said I agree in principal but in reality if you don't engage in corporate welfare via incentives you won't get the jobs that corporate welfare brings. Pragmatically, you can stick to your principals but more "somewheres" will be Mexico, Malaysia, India, etc. or just other states that did pay to play.

Government costs what it costs. If government gives away tax dollars spent given companies breaks, it's just shifting the cost of government to workers who work for that business. And sure, employees would probably rather have the jobs than the tax money the company should have been paying.

But, for the sake of employing people in Tennessee vs Oklahoma, or for the sake of employing more people than it would have otherwise, is different thing than for the sake of keeping the jobs in the US rather than in Mexico. I suspect there are other ways to keep jobs here. But we actually have to want to keep jobs here.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Government costs what it costs. If government gives away tax dollars spent given companies breaks, it's just shifting the cost of government to workers who work for that business. And sure, employees would probably rather have the jobs than the tax money the company should have been paying.

But, for the sake of employing people in Tennessee vs Oklahoma, or for the sake of employing more people than it would have otherwise, is different thing than for the sake of keeping the jobs in the US rather than in Mexico. I suspect there are other ways to keep jobs here. But we actually have to want to keep jobs here.

Good paying jobs is a pretty solid investment, though. Better than paying to subsidize a walmart via benefits to keep the workers above poverty level and with healthcare, paying to deal with all the crime it brings, etc. Better than paying for a playground for millionaires to draw some tourist dollars for the service industry but mostly for the millionaires/billionaires. Pragmatism says if I'm in Tennessee I want those jobs in Tennessee and to hell with Oklahoma. Let them season their onion heavy burgers with their own tears.

 

[jamil]

Good paying jobs is a pretty solid investment, though. Better than paying to subsidize a walmart via benefits to keep the workers above poverty level and with healthcare, paying to deal with all the crime it brings, etc. Better than paying for a playground for millionaires to draw some tourist dollars for the service industry but mostly for the millionaires/billionaires. Pragmatism says if I'm in Tennessee I want those jobs in Tennessee and to hell with Oklahoma. Let them season their onion heavy burgers with their own tears.

I'm a proponent of pragmatism. But sensible pragmatism. Pragmatism untempered by principle is nothing more than reacting to the whims of every facile cause. There's a balance between principle and pragmatism where if you get it right, then the outcomes are generally good for the most people.

So Tennessee vs Oklahoma. Both want the employer there. So they try to outbid each other to see who's willing to sell their community out most? Maybe we can find a better way to decide who gets to land the employer.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So Tennessee vs Oklahoma. Both want the employer there. So they try to outbid each other to see who's willing to sell their community out most? Maybe we can find a better way to decide who gets to land the employer.

Probably. Until then, though, pay to play will continue and will keep big business in a position of advantage with resources smaller entities can't get.

 

[jamil]

Probably. Until then, though, pay to play will continue and will keep big business in a position of advantage with resources smaller entities can't get.

No doubt that pay to play will continue. Doesn't make it a sound strategy long term.

 

[KLB]

No doubt that pay to play will continue. Doesn't make it a sound strategy long term.

It's long term where it does become more sound. Most of these large facilities are not only going to be used for 20 years. I'd be curious to see what the break even point was for that grant and taxes collected.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

It's long term where it does become more sound. Most of these large facilities are not only going to be used for 20 years. I'd be curious to see what the break even point was for that grant and taxes collected.

To see the effect of a major employer on the economic standing of an area, one really just needs to look at factory towns when the factory left. Larger cities with a wide variety of employers aren't as vulnerable of course, but let's take a not-hypothetical of a town built around a canning factory.

Canning factory paying wages sufficient for middle class families = town with decent schools, low crime, good home values, reasonable school system, etc. Little need for gov't intervention in form of food stamps, providing health care, dealing with blight properties, dealing with high level of crime, etc. Sufficient revenue for the necessities as well as amenities, nice city parks, a library, clean and maintained roads, etc.

Then the factory begins having issues, does rounds of layoffs, replaces middle class wages with wages for those of questionable immigration status willing to live 6 deep in a one bedroom apartment. Town starts to falter. Loss of tax revenue while increase in demand for services begins a downward spiral.

Then the factory shuts down and the biggest employer is a Dairy Queen or a gas station. Income is now bottomed out, don't have the money to invest in amenities like parks, can't offer salaries to attract more talented employees to local schools, police depts, etc. Monied residents move to be closer to where they now work or just somewhere 'nicer'. Local economy becomes based on meth and whores. Number of employable residents that would attract a new industry is low. Area stuck at the bottom of death spiral and is now rural blight or a ghost town.

 

[smokingman]

Volkswagen may close Brussels factory as low EV demand hits Audi By Reuters

Volkswagen may close Brussels factory as low EV demand hits Audi

www.investing.com

Now they are facing the above talked about spiral and all of the government funds used to build the plant are already spent.

 

[actaeon277]

 

[JCSR]

I was told on INGO that gas powered cars catch fire all the time. So I guess this is normal and ok.

 

[smokingman]

Batteries Needed For Green Transition Are ‘Unrecognized’ Source Of Pollution, Study Finds - [your]NEWS

The lithium-ion batteries that are essential to the green energy transition are an “unrecognized and potentially growing” source of chemical pollution, according to a new study published in Nature.

yournews.com

Lithium-ion battery components are at the nexus of sustainable energy and environmental release of per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances - Nature Communications

A new class of PFAS (bis-perfluoroalkyl sulfonamides) used in lithium-ion batteries have been released to the environment internationally. This places lithium-ion batteries at the nexus of CO2 reduction and release of recalcitrant aquatic contaminants.

www.nature.com

Summary. We recycle 5% of lithium batteries. The rest are put in landfills and they are wrecking our soil and water supply.

 

[PistolBob]

We need nuke powered cars. Buy it once, it has a small reactor, and a fuel pellet that last 15 years. Cost has to be less than 25% of what a house costs. Must come in many colors, and offer a convertible top, a train whistle horn would be nice too.

 

[JCSR]

Batteries Needed For Green Transition Are ‘Unrecognized’ Source Of Pollution, Study Finds - [your]NEWS

The lithium-ion batteries that are essential to the green energy transition are an “unrecognized and potentially growing” source of chemical pollution, according to a new study published in Nature.

yournews.com

Lithium-ion battery components are at the nexus of sustainable energy and environmental release of per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances - Nature Communications

A new class of PFAS (bis-perfluoroalkyl sulfonamides) used in lithium-ion batteries have been released to the environment internationally. This places lithium-ion batteries at the nexus of CO2 reduction and release of recalcitrant aquatic contaminants.

www.nature.com

Summary. We recycle 5% of lithium batteries. The rest are put in landfills and they are wrecking our soil and water supply.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I was told on INGO that gas powered cars catch fire all the time. So I guess this is normal and ok.

Well, Sheetz.

 

[Ingomike]

We need nuke powered cars. Buy it once, it has a small reactor, and a fuel pellet that last 15 years. Cost has to be less than 25% of what a house costs. Must come in many colors, and offer a convertible top, a train whistle horn would be nice too.

 

[Ingomike]

The Nationwide 500,000 EV Charger Charade | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[smokingman]

Lawsuit Alleges Hyundai Conducted "Secret Program" With Dealers To "Inflate" EV Sales | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

Hyundai was bribing dealers to fake electric car sales numbers and punishing dealerships that did not go along.

Wonder how wide spread that is?

 

[JCSR]

 

[smokingman]

You mean to tell me that do to the insurance costing more than the car payment per month in Commifornia, they did not have full coverage? How much do they still owe on their shinny/dented ramming machine(what, if I was the jeep and they hit me again after the initial impact I would have left as well)?

Strange edit of the side video as well. Something seems shaddy.

 

[Flash-hider]

Why wouldn't the air bags have deployed?