The President Trump Immigration Thread

[indiucky]

Maybe I should modify my statement. ISIS like him...that's true.

I don't think they did....One thing I have picked up is that they despise any one who comes across as weak...Especially an enemy.....

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I don't think they did....One thing I have picked up is that they despise any one who comes across as weak...Especially an enemy.....

See my football reference above. I realize this analogy might be lost on folks north of SEC territory.... but I'm not saying "like" like invite them over for supper and exchange Christmas gifts. I'm saying like like I'm glad he's running the show instead of someone that will not keep moving the red line in the sand every time he's pushed.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Iran, Syria and North Korea loved Obama. Palestine too. Obama was a friend to a lot of dictators. Castro...

That "huge popularity" is one on the reasons we can happily have President Trump.

Well, that's intellectually dishonest. What is the litmus test for friend?

 

[bwframe]

Trump to Schumer: No wall, no DACA deal

 

[Kutnupe14]

Trump to Schumer: No wall, no DACA deal

Seems like another lie.

 

[ghitch75]

Seems like another lie.

ok i give.....why?......isn't what they do in washington....make deals????

 

[Kutnupe14]

ok i give.....why?......isn't what they do in washington....make deals????

You will probably support it, but I don't think the president wants a deal on DACA. I think he wants his wall, and no DACA. If the Democrats give him a wall, they had better be dang sure that they include DACA protections in it.

 

[jamil]

Well, you certainly won't hear me accusing you of looking at something critically. If you don't see the issue of a 23 year old being appointed to position which is second, only, to the drug czar, then the transformation from one who questions the decisions of govt, to blind loyalty, is complete. Even if the the Deputy Chief of Staff's resume was accurate, it doesn't contain near the amount of experience most would expect for someone in the position.... but that's just me, wanting experienced people working in govt.

The drug czar! Holy ****.

Seriously, c’mon man, surely in this target rich environment that is the Trump administration, you can come up with something that matters. Surely you’re not running THIS low on material to fuel the cause.

 

[IndyDave1776]

For the poor countries, yeah. the wealthy one's, not so much. Russia and Israel, are the only nations that have a better opinion of our current president, than our last one.

Trump Unpopular Worldwide, American Image Suffers | Pew Research Center

Of course the majority of foreign countries liked Obama far better than they like Trump. Trump will tell them to go **** up a rope where Obama would crawl under their desks and start, well, vacuuming.

 

[Twangbanger]

Those chickens will come home to roost, in the next 20-25 years. It's the last hurrah of a dying perspective. Those who believe that they have been victimized by that perspective, will unspring a backlash, that will drive the nation hopelessly left.

What perspective is that?

 

[Kutnupe14]

The drug czar! Holy ****.

Seriously, c’mon man, surely in this target rich environment that is the Trump administration, you can come up with something that matters. Surely you’re not running THIS low on material to fuel the cause.

Low on material? Lol. I haven't even said anything about Trumpy's pornstar adventure, and how fake evangelicals are.

Nevertheless, that lazy 24 year old Deputy Chief of Staff was placed on desk duty, and will be thankfully leaving his position next month.
Controversial Trump drug policy appointee to step down | TheHill

 

[Kutnupe14]

What perspective is that?

I think I made that clear in a subsequent post.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Logan Act? ::eyeroll::

Kerry to Abbas confidante: 'Stay strong and do not give in to Trump' - Arab-Israeli Conflict - Jerusalem Post

ETA: Oops. in the general discussion thread:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...scussion-thread-part-3-a-272.html#post7390951

 

[jamil]

Those chickens will come home to roost, in the next 20-25 years. It's the last hurrah of a dying perspective. Those who believe that they have been victimized by that perspective, will unspring a backlash, that will drive the nation hopelessly left.

Look a bit beyond that. First, it helps to have the media incessantly tell people how victimized they are. But whatever, that’s a different point. To whatever extreme that backlash is, there will be an even more extreme response to that, and then an even bigger response the other way, and so on. Obama was an extreme response to Bush. Trump is an extreme response to Obama. What leftward extreme awaits us next? Fauxahantas? Bernie? Cory “teary outrage” Booker? Oprah? And then what do you think the response from the other side will be? Do you think the personalties which tend to make people conservative will suddenly vanish?

Calm down. Everyone needs to calm down. The depths of despair that people think they’re in now because if Trump, is largely imagined. Hes, he’s fairly incompetent, but not as much as you think. He’s crass, probably every bit as much as you think. He’s certainly not as racist as you think. He’s fairly divisive but no more so than Obama. All the damage you think he does, is mostly fake damage. What he’s damaged is what is in your opinion the best things for the country.

And what you’re doing is part of the problem. Your cause is transparent. Your outrage only inspires the other side. You’re not changing any opinions about trump. You’re just making people more willing to accept even more extreme behavior fron Trump. And the sides are getting so extreme, really none of us will be better off with either extreme winning a particular swing of the pendulum. Let’s slow the pendulum. Let’s try to get it back to a normal range. Calm down.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Look a bit beyond that. First, it helps to have the media incessantly tell people how victimized they are. But whatever, that’s a different point. To whatever extreme that backlash is, there will be an even more extreme response to that, and then an even bigger response the other way, and so on. Obama was an extreme response to Bush. Trump is an extreme response to Obama. What leftward extreme awaits us next? Fauxahantas? Bernie? Cory “teary outrage” Booker? Oprah? And then what do you think the response from the other side will be? Do you think the personalties which tend to make people conservative will suddenly vanish?

Calm down. Everyone needs to calm down. The depths of despair that people think they’re in now because if Trump, is largely imagined. Hes, he’s fairly incompetent, but not as much as you think. He’s crass, probably every bit as much as you think. He’s certainly not as racist as you think. He’s fairly divisive but no more so than Obama. All the damage you think he does, is mostly fake damage. What he’s damaged is what is in your opinion the best things for the country.

And what you’re doing is part of the problem. Your cause is transparent. Your outrage only inspires the other side. You’re not changing any opinions about trump. You’re just making people more willing to accept even more extreme behavior fron Trump. And the sides are getting so extreme, really none of us will be better off with either extreme winning a particular swing of the pendulum. Let’s slow the pendulum. Let’s try to get it back to a normal range. Calm down.

This. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Kutnupe14]

Look a bit beyond that. First, it helps to have the media incessantly tell people how victimized they are. But whatever, that’s a different point. To whatever extreme that backlash is, there will be an even more extreme response to that, and then an even bigger response the other way, and so on. Obama was an extreme response to Bush. Trump is an extreme response to Obama. What leftward extreme awaits us next? Fauxahantas? Bernie? Cory “teary outrage” Booker? Oprah? And then what do you think the response from the other side will be? Do you think the personalties which tend to make people conservative will suddenly vanish?

Calm down. Everyone needs to calm down. The depths of despair that people think they’re in now because if Trump, is largely imagined. Hes, he’s fairly incompetent, but not as much as you think. He’s crass, probably every bit as much as you think. He’s certainly not as racist as you think. He’s fairly divisive but no more so than Obama. All the damage you think he does, is mostly fake damage. What he’s damaged is what is in your opinion the best things for the country.

And what you’re doing is part of the problem. Your cause is transparent. Your outrage only inspires the other side. You’re not changing any opinions about trump. You’re just making people more willing to accept even more extreme behavior fron Trump. And the sides are getting so extreme, really none of us will be better off with either extreme winning a particular swing of the pendulum. Let’s slow the pendulum. Let’s try to get it back to a normal range. Calm down.

I'm not here to change minds about Trump. I'm here to make sure people remember the things he does, so there's no confusion about the person he is, or the person they are, in supporting him. That way when the next guy does the same thing, but for the benefit for the other side, they'll understand that they don't have legitimate reasons to complain.... at least without exposing their hypocrisy. But truth be told, that hypocrisy is already shamefully evident.

 

[jamil]

I'm not here to change minds about Trump. I'm here to make sure people remember the things he does, so there's no confusion about the person he is, or the person they are, in supporting him. That way when the next guy does the same thing, but for the benefit for the other side, they'll understand that they don't have legitimate reasons to complain.... at least without exposing their hypocrisy. But truth be told, that hypocrisy is already shamefully evident.

No. You’re more transparent than that. But again, that’s not my point.

The person Trump actually is, is somewhere between what Trumpers think he is, and what you think he is. It’s fine to bring up the legitimately bad parts about Trump. On a lot of those criticisms, I agree even. But you bring up hyperbole. That only undermines the thing you say you’re doing. It makes it obvious that you’re just picking at the Trumpers. And when you do those things, I just feel like I have to respond to it. I’d spend less time disagreeing with you if it wasn’t so apparent that you’re trying to give Trumpers their comeuppance. What’s real? What’s not real? I’d rather it be a discussion based on that. Not Trump outrage. That’s only based on imagination.

I’ve kinda come the the conclusion lately that there isn’t a collective solution to the extreme divisions. It’s an individual solution. It’s each individual making a decision to figure out what’s true, and then act like uou believe what’s true. It’s easy to figure out what’s our own opinion and act on that. THAT’s what got us into this division, with the help of social media. But what’s true about our opinions, and especially what’s not true, are the important things to discover.

 

[T.Lex]

I’ve kinda come the the conclusion lately that there isn’t a collective solution to the extreme divisions. It’s an individual solution.

I am open to this.

But, both on INGO and in some personal interactions, I am really, actually concerned that even that isn't enough. America's "rugged individualism" includes a downside - we (act like) we don't really need anyone else.

And, in the modern era where so much interacting/shopping/living is done online, we are more able than ever before to pick and choose with whom we share ideas. People are intentionally choosing echo chambers - at every level.

The opportunities to find common ground are growing more infrequent, it seems to me.

 

[jamil]

I am open to this.

But, both on INGO and in some personal interactions, I am really, actually concerned that even that isn't enough. America's "rugged individualism" includes a downside - we (act like) we don't really need anyone else.

And, in the modern era where so much interacting/shopping/living is done online, we are more able than ever before to pick and choose with whom we share ideas. People are intentionally choosing echo chambers - at every level.

The opportunities to find common ground are growing more infrequent, it seems to me.

Common ground is only an issue with conflicting opinions. If we’re talking about separating objective truth from opinion, common ground isn’t even part of that discussion.

But the discussions we’re having is “Trump is the greatest l, most smartest, POTUS in the history of ever, that we’re nust tired of winning so much”, vs, “Trump is a racist, sexist, homophobic bigot who hates the poor, golfs with Putin every day, and smokes cigars wrapped in the labor of immigrant slaves. Of course there’s no common ground in that. It’s all peception of an imagined reality. The truth of that is discoverable. We don’t have to interpret all the input with our own biases.

 

[T.Lex]

Sorry Jamil, there's a real world update.

https://www.wthr.com/article/trump-says-hes-open-to-pathway-to-citizenship-for-dreamers-0

So Trump is now open to a pathway to citizenship. Actually, I think that is consistent with at least some of his other comments on the matter. (Although also inconsistent with some of his other comments.)

I wonder if Twitter Trump will approve.