The President Trump Immigration Thread

[Alpo]

But yet some guys managed to travel all the way from Honduras to put a roof on your house.





I'm sure $3 an hour is "good money" in Honduras. Did you actually verify the green cards yourself or just take the owners word for it? Because I keep hearing that "verification, not walls" is the best way to combat illegal immigration.

Have you met printcraft yet? Why don't you talk to him for awhile and let the rest of us carry on with what we were doing?

 

[printcraft]

Have you met printcraft yet? Why don't you talk to him for awhile and let the rest of us carry on with what we were doing?

Not something one would forget.

 

[Alpo]

Especially if you forget your pants.

 

[Liberty1916]

Have you met printcraft yet? Why don't you talk to him for awhile and let the rest of us carry on with what we were doing?

So, I'll take that as a hard "No", you didn't really verify anything. Can we try a wall now please? This verification thing seems not to be working.

 

[Alpo]

You can take it that I feel you've passed from irritating into the extremely obnoxious category and I really don't feel you are worth responding to any further.

bye

 

[Liberty1916]

You can take it that I feel you've passed from irritating into the extremely obnoxious category and I really don't feel you are worth responding to any further.

bye

Sorry if the questions are too uncomfortable for you to answer. Maybe the rest of us aren't interested in lectures about the economics of illegal immigration from people who hire illegal immigrants themselves. Just sayin'.

 

[Alpo]

You really are a piece of work.

"the rest of us"? LOL I'm reminded of Tonto's famous line.

As to the Hondurans, I saw the crew working last week. They've been here quite awhile. But, you really have passed the point where you are doing much more than chumming.

I'm taking bets you won't make it to 500.

 

[Liberty1916]

You really are a piece of work.

"the rest of us"? LOL I'm reminded of Tonto's famous line.

As to the Hondurans, I saw the crew working last week. They've been here quite awhile. But, you really have passed the point where you are doing much more than chumming.

I'm taking bets you won't make it to 500.

Asking questions related to the topic isn't "chumming". You should be more open minded and not take everything so personally. It's just an internet forum.

 

[Vigilant]

Why can't I go to ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, and rent a house, get a job, a bank account, etc. without first having to PROVE I will not be a burden on that countries resources? Why is America different? Try visiting Canada( the country everyone loves) with a felony, or a bad misdemeanor, try retiring to Costa Rica or Belize. Why are or is America the only place on Earth where there are no rules to come here?

 

[printcraft]

Why can't I go to ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, and rent a house, get a job, a bank account, etc. without first having to PROVE I will not be a burden on that countries resources? Why is America different? Try visiting Canada( the country everyone loves) with a felony, or a bad misdemeanor, try retiring to Costa Rica or Belize. Why are or is America the only place on Earth where there are no rules to come here?

Because we are nice people!

Or enter "liberal guilt" for being the best in the world. ( < some self hating liberal types will argue with this)
"We must spread the wealth!"

 

[SheepDog4Life]

SD4L: Oh, I'm totally behind e-verify, guest worker programs and fair pay. Unfortunately, we've been talking about this for decades and haven't really made any progress through the legislature. If we can't get Obamacare modified, how is Congress going to do anything as complex and penetrating as immigration? I think we'll still be talking about these things in another 10 years.

As to the effect on the economy, you forgot the multipliers. Let's say it's 5 to 10. At our present productivity rate, you've just taken a slowly growing economy into a recession. A few percent matter.

I guess I didn't say it well... I meant that a lesser number of LEGAL workers making more than the ILLEGALS do would be something near a wash. The lesser number of their dependents in our schools would be money kept and spent by taxpayers rather than by school districts for both EASL teachers and increased total number of teachers, so a net positive. Also, the guest workers would have their money in the "open" market, so money spent on airplane/bus tickets would have the traditional market multiplier effects... I don't think the money paid to coyotes that goes to the cartel hierachy have the same multiplier effect... and if it does, it's not here, it's somewhere in Central/South America, where they build their big compounds and buy their expensive stuff. So, another net plus. Ditto not only paying income taxes, but on higher wages.

So, while you are right that deporting all 12 million tomorrow without any other change would be devastating to the economy, there is no policy that can actually achieve that. And the reasons it would be bad are, IMO, different than their paychecks impact on the economy.

Anywho, I'm skeptical that a reasonable comprehensive immigration reform will happen... though I do think that if enforcement and eVerify get forced through, the result will be an emergency need for guest worker visas. Not because of the absence of them spending the meager amounts their exploiters allow them to keep, but because their WORK is needed and the crops in the fields are a large impact on the economy... and a very visible one everytime we go to the grocery.

 

[BugI02]

Great borrow some more money, because we don't have that money.

I'm confused. So we DO have the money to pay for them once they get here, but we DON'T have the money to prevent their arrival

Sounds like repurposing of existing funds to me

 

[BugI02]

Because we are nice people!

Or enter "liberal guilt" for being the best in the world. ( < some self hating liberal types will argue with this)
[STRIKE]"We must spread the wealth!"[/STRIKE]

No, no. Rather "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"

 

[Alpo]

I guess I didn't say it well... I meant that a lesser number of LEGAL workers making more than the ILLEGALS do would be something near a wash. The lesser number of their dependents in our schools would be money kept and spent by taxpayers rather than by school districts for both EASL teachers and increased total number of teachers, so a net positive. Also, the guest workers would have their money in the "open" market, so money spent on airplane/bus tickets would have the traditional market multiplier effects... I don't think the money paid to coyotes that goes to the cartel hierachy have the same multiplier effect... and if it does, it's not here, it's somewhere in Central/South America, where they build their big compounds and buy their expensive stuff. So, another net plus. Ditto not only paying income taxes, but on higher wages.

So, while you are right that deporting all 12 million tomorrow without any other change would be devastating to the economy, there is no policy that can actually achieve that. And the reasons it would be bad are, IMO, different than their paychecks impact on the economy.

Anywho, I'm skeptical that a reasonable comprehensive immigration reform will happen... though I do think that if enforcement and eVerify get forced through, the result will be an emergency need for guest worker visas. Not because of the absence of them spending the meager amounts their exploiters allow them to keep, but because their WORK is needed and the crops in the fields are a large impact on the economy... and a very visible one everytime we go to the grocery.

I think we are in agreement, more or less.

 

[KLB]

I'm confused. So we DO have the money to pay for them once they get here, but we DON'T have the money to prevent their arrival

Sounds like repurposing of existing funds to me

Nope. We do not. That is the point. End the subsidies for non-citizens, and don't pretend like we are "repurposing" money we don't have. Everyone wants to spend spend spend.

 

[jamil]

Why can't I go to ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, and rent a house, get a job, a bank account, etc. without first having to PROVE I will not be a burden on that countries resources? Why is America different? Try visiting Canada( the country everyone loves) with a felony, or a bad misdemeanor, try retiring to Costa Rica or Belize. Why are or is America the only place on Earth where there are no rules to come here?

Perfectly reasonable questions.

I'd like to suggest that if everyone who wanted to immigrate to America were right-leaning people politically, we'd see Democrats pushing much stricter policies.

 

[jamil]

Nope. We do not. That is the point. End the subsidies for non-citizens, and don't pretend like we are "repurposing" money we don't have. Everyone wants to spend spend spend.

I think the wall is probably a waste of money. I'd rather do something like e-verify and end any kind of public benefits for people who are here illegally. As far as emergency room visits, sure, help them, then call ICE. That's not inhumane. That's what rule of law looks like. We're either a nation of laws or a nation of ideologues.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Why can't I go to ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, and rent a house, get a job, a bank account, etc. without first having to PROVE I will not be a burden on that countries resources? Why is America different? Try visiting Canada( the country everyone loves) with a felony, or a bad misdemeanor, try retiring to Costa Rica or Belize. Why are or is America the only place on Earth where there are no rules to come here?

"Can't?" Let me inform you, you most certainly can. It may be illegal in some places, but it's insanely easy to do.

 

[Sylvain]

Why can't I go to ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, and rent a house, get a job, a bank account, etc. without first having to PROVE I will not be a burden on that countries resources? Why is America different? Try visiting Canada( the country everyone loves) with a felony, or a bad misdemeanor, try retiring to Costa Rica or Belize. Why are or is America the only place on Earth where there are no rules to come here?

Really?
I think you're mixing legal and illegal immigration together.
Of course there are no rules if you do everything illegally (just like with guns, you can buy machine guns off the street without any paperwork).
As a foreigner who had to deal with ICE I can tell you there are PLENTY of rules and they are stricly enforced.
I have to go thru background checks and get a travel authorization from the DHS, days in advance, just to book a plane ticket for a simple visit in the US.
If I book a plane to go to any other country I don't need government authorization to go there.
Get a job or open a bank account? You can't do it without having a US SSN which is not easy to get if you're not a naturally born citizen.
I've been to a bank in the US where my girlfriend (she's a US citizen), she wanted to create a joint account so I could have access to her account while I was in the US.
The bank manager told us it was not possible if I didn't have a proper US SSN.
You obviously have no idea what people have to do to come to the US legally (criminal background checks, medical exams, English proficiency tests etc).
Saying there's no rules is ridiculous when it's probably the toughest country in term of immigration and border protection.

You might want to look at the current requirements to become a legal resident in the US.
You might also look at what your ancestors had to go thru on Ellis Island before they were even allowed to step foot on US soil.

It took on average 5 hours for a newly arrived immigrant to get processed on Ellis Island (criminal background checks, medical check up, making sure they had enough money to support themselves etc).
Many were deported on the spot.

Just because had nothing to do to acquire your US citizenship at birth (I assume) doesn't mean others don't have (or didn't have in the case of your ancestors) to jump thru hoops to enjoy the same rights you enjoy today.

 

[BugI02]

Really?
I think you're mixing legal and illegal immigration together.
Of course there are no rules if you do everything illegally (just like with guns, you can buy machine guns off the street without any paperwork).
As a foreigner who had to deal with ICE I can tell you there are PLENTY of rules and they are stricly enforced.
I have to go thru background checks and get a travel authorization from the DHS, days in advance, just to book a plane ticket for a simple visit in the US.
If I book a plane to go to any other country I don't need government authorization to go there.
Get a job or open a bank account? You can't do it without having a US SSN which is not easy to get if you're not a naturally born citizen.
I've been to a bank in the US where my girlfriend (she's a US citizen), she wanted to create a joint account so I could have access to her account while I was in the US.
The bank manager told us it was not possible if I didn't have a proper US SSN.
You obviously have no idea what people have to do to come to the US legally (criminal background checks, medical exams, English proficiency tests etc).
Saying there's no rules is ridiculous when it's probably the toughest country in term of immigration and border protection.

You might want to look at the current requirements to become a legal resident in the US.
You might also look at what your ancestors had to go thru on Ellis Island before they were even allowed to step foot on US soil.

It took on average 5 hours for a newly arrived immigrant to get processed on Ellis Island (criminal background checks, medical check up, making sure they had enough money to support themselves etc).
Many were deported on the spot.



Just because had [to do] nothing to acquire your US citizenship at birth [As was true for you of your French citizenship, no?] (I assume) doesn't mean others don't have (or didn't have in the case of your ancestors) to jump thru hoops to enjoy the same rights you enjoy today.

Becoming a French Citizen Through Naturalization

1) Obtain a residency visa. Before you can apply for citizenship through naturalization, you’ll have to get the appropriate visa or entry permit. The general rule is that you’ll need to apply to the French consulate where you live, to begin the process. You can check here for consulate locations. The process takes about two weeks for a U.S. citizen, and approximately two months for other nationalities. To apply for a residency visa you’ll need:A valid passport
Application form and long-term application annex
Eight passport-size photos per individual
Financial guarantees, such as a letter from your bank manager stating that you have sufficient income or means to live in France, or proof of a retirement pension
Proof of medical insurance that covers you for any necessary treatment you might need in France
Proof of lodging in France, such as a lease, title to a property, or a letter from a legal resident stating that he or she will provide for your accommodation.


2) Live in France for five consecutive years. This is a prerequisite to obtaining French citizenship through naturalization. However, if you’ve successfully completed two years of higher education in France, the five-year residency period can be reduced to two years.

3) Sign the Reception and Integration Contract (CAI). This is a document used by the French immigration agency (OFII) to make sure that foreign nationals arriving in France “assimilate into French society”. You’ll sign the CAI at your residence, and it’s valid for one year. After that, the French government will evaluate you to make sure you’ve met the CAI requirements, some of which are:
Take the oral and written French test. If you don’t meet the expected level of proficiency, you’ll have to take classes (for free) to improve your skills.
Complete civics training. The purpose of this is to raise your awareness of such things as the equality between men and women, and basic liberties. You receive the training at no cost to you.
Attend an information session. This is geared to presenting you with details about access to public services, such as housing, healthcare and childcare. Attendance is required, and is free.

4) Submit your application. Assuming you’ve met the naturalization requirements, you’ll have to bring your application and accompanying documentation to the local prefecture where you live. You’ll need:
national ID or passport
birth certificate
proof of address
marriage certificate (if applicable)
You may also need proof that you're employed, and that you don’t have a criminal record.

5) Complete any requested interviews and additional paperwork. Your application materials will be assessed by the police, the mayor’s office, and possibly other government departments. They’ll advise you if they want to speak with you and/or if they need any additional information. This whole process can take around two years to complete. Be aware that French immigration policies have become more restrictive since 2006.

The comparable process going the other way does not seem to be as hoop-free, nor lacking jumping requirements therethrough, as you seem to be indicating, Sylvain

Do you find that your own country imposes onerous barriers to citizenship?