The President Trump Immigration Thread

[SheepDog4Life]

I wonder what the next level of incursion will be....

Do we need to beef up the Coast Guard to protect seaward approaches?

Amazon can deliver drugs-by-drone, so it won't completely stop the drug trade. How soon will a drone be able to pick up and deliver a person?

I know that sounds foolish, but can it be all that far away if we could have self-driving vehicles within a year?

If Yellowstone blows, are the people of Mexico going to let us in?

Very soon, possibly within the year?

But how much would you charge for "ticket" on a $200,000-300,000 drone that would likely become F-16 target practice on the empty return trip?

https://www.pcworld.com/article/301...nsports-people-yes-people-at-11-000-feet.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2017/02/14/dubai-autonomous-taxi-drones-ehang/#7a2ae8364702

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Good! And far far cheaper than paying for the associated welfare of illegal immigration.

I don't know about welfare, specifically, I haven't seen those costs broken out, but saving a fraction of the ANNUAL total costs associated with illegal aliens, in one year, would pay for the ENTIRE wall.

The "investment" ROI is extremely high.

 

[Alpo]

Very soon, possibly within the year?

But how much would you charge for "ticket" on a $200,000-300,000 drone that would likely become F-16 target practice on the empty return trip?

https://www.pcworld.com/article/301...nsports-people-yes-people-at-11-000-feet.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2017/02/14/dubai-autonomous-taxi-drones-ehang/#7a2ae8364702

F-16's along the border wall. LOL $200K drone? I know it's not a subject that many would keep up with, but there has been a lot of improvement in payload capacity and synchronized drone flights. Little drones, man. Not bathtub size drones. Just sayin'. You may be overthinking this. If a guy in Long Beach can get to a good altitude in a lawn chair with helium baloons and a six-pak, how much is really necessary to get over a 50 foot barrier? I don't know the MacGyver equivalent in Sonora, but he does exist.

Grappling irons and rope ladders would do just as well for the lower tech excursion fare customers.

 

[jamil]

I view the "wall" as nothing more than an expensive "we do not want you here" statement. Unless ladders, explosives, and shovels are unknown or scare, south of the border, it will be little more than a speed bump for those who actually are trying to get into the country. But seriously. If you wanted to get over these walls, how difficult would it actually be? This administration is going about curbing illegal immigration in entirely the wrong way.

I think that needs clarification. It's fair to erect it as a statement saying "we don't want you here ILLEGALLY!". The wall is no actual deterrence to people coming here legally from Mexico. You know. Because those people go through the gates, with documentation, legally. But of course, the left is helping to promote the idea that it's all about the right hating Mexicans, and not just about keeping them from coming here illegally.

But I do agree that I think the wall is a waste of money. I don't think it's going to be all that effective compared to the cost. Maybe there'll be some deterrence just by it being there. But people who want to come here illegally will find a way to get here illegally. The wall will only skew the line of division towards those who determined enough to get here. So I'm not saying it'll have no effect. Just doubtful enough effect to make it worth it.

The real value of building the wall is in fulfilling a campaign theme.

 

[Alpo]

Why? His credibility is shot anyway...mostly by his own doing. Just get on with being presidential and don't worry about the promises. No one believes anything he says.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Much is made along the lines of "we already have 700 miles of border wall/fence and it doesn't stop the illegal crossers and drugs. Doing anything to enhance or expand the current border barriers is futile". If we had 700 miles of border wall that looked like the prototypes, I might agree... but we don't... not even close.

About half of that 700 miles of barriers is only to stop vehicles from crossing.

Southern US Border Barrier

or maybe not even that when there is only a 20-30 ft of barrier for a road:

Southern US Border Barrier

Of the other half, the half to stop people, some portion is simple "three wire cattle fencing". Google search Youtube videos to see reporters crossing the border with coyotes and their paying customers on flat lands that only protect the border from cattle roaming across. (and the reporter points out the mounds of empty water jugs, trash, etc along the well-worn path)

Southern US Border Barrier

And there are places that ranchers wish there was at least a cattle fence for exactly that reason. To stop cattle from roaming across. Lol!

NM ranchers worry that sick cows could cross to US - The San Diego Union-Tribune

But surely populated areas have high, difficult walls that extend far out into the country side, right? No, here's an example that could be scaled using a simple 6-ft home step ladder that divides populated areas on both sides of the border. Remember, this is part of the "best protected" 350 miles, it's by Tecate.

Southern US Border Barrier

There are populated areas where someone on the Mexican side could make good money just letting people climb up and over an RV (plus a courtesy rope ladder) to defeat the current barrier. (last picture on the page)

Southern US Border Barrier

And this place that is 1,000 ft from a manned border crossing... folks can and do spend hours with a simple hacksaw defeating this poor design and then pass all of the drugs and people they want to through the opening (second picture):

Southern US Border Barrier

So, when people say to me "We tried the wall and it doesn't work, so more can't work and is a waste of money", I assume they are either ignorant, haven't done their research, or are flat out lying to further their agenda. Would enhancing the current wall to the prototype standards and adding miles in "easy" places to cross stop all border crossings? No. Would it significantly staunch the flow across the Southern border? I think that is readily apparent.

IMO, enhancing the border wall (which is relatively cheap, see above) along with mandatory eVerify, prosecuting and fining employers of illegals, and tracking Visa entry/exits would result in a tidal change in this problem.

IMO, part of the solution should be seasonal worker visas issued only at foreign embassies and consulates so that law-abiding foreigners could LEGALLY come, work, pay taxes, then go back home to their families... no $3,000-$6,000 fee to drug-cartel coyotes and death-defying journeys necessary, just an ordinary plane ticket.

tl;dr: The current wall/fence sucks. A child could cross

 

[printcraft]

I wonder what the next level of incursion will be....

Do we need to beef up the Coast Guard to protect seaward approaches?

Amazon can deliver drugs-by-drone, so it won't completely stop the drug trade. How soon will a drone be able to pick up and deliver a person?

I know that sounds foolish, but can it be all that far away if we could have self-driving vehicles within a year?

If Yellowstone blows, are the people of Mexico going to let us in?

We should do NOTHING because doing nothing has worked so well so far to keep unchecked illegal immigration from happening....... unless flooding this country with illegals is your goal, then it has worked well.

 

[Alpo]

It's intriguing. I don't remember you ever recommending anything in the way of a solution.

I'm in favor of e-verify as a real measure that could assist us with border incursions as well as the people from other countries (pick your favorite) who overstay their welcome and represent, perhaps, a bigger threat to our national security.

 

[printcraft]

It's intriguing. I don't remember you ever recommending anything in the way of a solution.

I'm in favor of e-verify as a real measure that could assist us with border incursions as well as the people from other countries (pick your favorite) who overstay their welcome and represent, perhaps, a bigger threat to our national security.

What? You don't think my automated machine guns and a alligator moat idea would work?

 

[SheepDog4Life]

F-16's along the border wall. LOL

It's a money saver for pilot training... the taxpayer doesn't even have to pay for the target drone. Lol!

$200K drone? I know it's not a subject that many would keep up with, but there has been a lot of improvement in payload capacity and synchronized drone flights. Little drones, man. Not bathtub size drones. Just sayin'. You may be overthinking this. If a guy in Long Beach can get to a good altitude in a lawn chair with helium baloons and a six-pak, how much is really necessary to get over a 50 foot barrier? I don't know the MacGyver equivalent in Sonora, but he does exist.

It's a lower "bar", only 30 ft. Given how cheap a tank of helium, a lawn chair and balloons are, especially compared to either coyotes or drones, why don't they just do that? Prevailing winds?

Grappling irons and rope ladders would do just as well for the lower tech excursion fare customers.

Hence the round pipe on top of the prototypes in the pictures. I would expect a grappling hook would be one of the tests the border patrol performs in attempting to defeat the prototype barriers.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

It's intriguing. I don't remember you ever recommending anything in the way of a solution.

I'm in favor of e-verify as a real measure that could assist us with border incursions as well as the people from other countries (pick your favorite) who overstay their welcome and represent, perhaps, a bigger threat to our national security.

More than once, prior to this... in both immigration threads (also the wall poll thread), examples:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...-trump-immigration-thread-38.html#post6982358

...
I do believe that squeezing on the eVerify/I-9 side gets the needle moving in the right direction, and at least reduces, though doesn't eliminate, the "job magnet". I do believe that in order to reach critical mass, increased LEGAL immigration, both work permits and paths to citizenship, are necessary.


Once the ball starts rolling, those who are here face a choice... remain here amongst a smaller and smaller illegal population, waiting until you get caught... or return home to get in line to return legally.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...iscussion/440700-wall-poll-4.html#post7187612

More wall... more interior enforcement... universal eVerify... more penalties for those who hire humans carried around in horse trailers... AND THEN


more work Visas for those who want to come here legally, to work for people who want to hire, pay and treat them humanely, and then return to their home country when their Visa is up... and, if they want to come here permanently, who follow the laws to do so

ETA: I've been pretty consistent, though I have "softened" some on currently present DACAs who are contributing positively to society from discussions with T. Lex, Jamll and others.

 

[Liberty1916]

We should do NOTHING because doing nothing has worked so well so far to keep unchecked illegal immigration from happening....... unless flooding this country with illegals is your goal, then it has worked well.

The same people who think there's nothing we can do to stop illegal immigration are the same ones who think more laws will stop gun crime.

When you realize their real objective, it will all make sense though.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

It's intriguing. I don't remember you ever recommending anything in the way of a solution.

I'm in favor of e-verify as a real measure that could assist us with border incursions as well as the people from other countries (pick your favorite) who overstay their welcome and represent, perhaps, a bigger threat to our national security.

Common ground... did I accidentally click on the wrong website?

 

[Alpo]

[video=youtube_share;Hz7AXG3XoFo]http://youtu.be/Hz7AXG3XoFo[/video]

 

[printcraft]

[video=youtube_share;Hz7AXG3XoFo]http://youtu.be/Hz7AXG3XoFo[/video]

Good point. 99.9% of illegals crossing the desert will have those. I have to rethink this whole wall thing.

 

[Alpo]

Common ground... did I accidentally click on the wrong website?

Ride around in a pickup truck with me for an hour and you'll be disabused of my "liberal" INGO status.

 

[Alpo]

Good point. 99.9% of illegals crossing the desert will have those. I have to rethink this whole wall thing.

Are you just playing the underachiever or is this a real problem?

The point, mi amigo, (notice how I intersperse my comments with another language), is that this cannister which is available at most offshore marine outlets is pretty standard rigging for large offshore vessels and costs about $700. If a coyote is getting a couple grand per person, a throwaway device at that price makes sense.

Heck, you could haul a 100 kilos of marijuana over that nice round wall crown and not abrade the line much at all.

When the wind is right, all you'd need is a kite.

For every hi-tech barrier solution, there is a junkyard way to defeat it.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Ride around in a pickup truck with me for an hour and you'll be disabused of my "liberal" INGO status.

As long as that ride ends with a cold beer!

 

[Alpo]

Yeah....I hated it when they put in those stupid open container laws....

 

[jamil]

The same people who think there's nothing we can do to stop illegal immigration are the same ones who think more laws will stop gun crime.

When you realize their real objective, it will all make sense though.

Not really. There is nothing we can do that will *stop* illegal immigration. If just one illegal immigrant slips through every now and again, you haven't stopped it. The wall isn't going to stop it. It might impede it. Obviously it will deter those who aren't willing to go to the extra trouble of circumventing it.

E-verify would help. But since we have so many leftist enclaves willing to ignore immigration laws I'm pretty sure there'll still be safe and inviting places for illegals to live and work once they get here.