The President Trump Immigration Thread

[printcraft]

The article was about letting them vote in local elections, not run for office.

Why is this even being considered? They should be doing neither.

 

[OakRiver]

The article was about letting them vote in local elections, not run for office.

Correct. So anyone is willing to advance legislation that runs contrary to their oath of office (such as letting non-citizens vote in this case) that person should be asked to reconcile their position with their oath.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Correct. So anyone is willing to advance legislation that runs contrary to their oath of office (such as letting non-citizens vote in this case) that person should be asked to reconcile their position with their oath.

Ya know, I've seen a mayors/councilmen sworn in, but was so disinterested that I never really listened. What is the text of their oath of office?

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I guess if you're in this country illegally, illegally working, employing illegals then you should expect to be exploited because another option is incarceration and exportation. These people are not immigrants, immigrants come to a country through their immigration policy; these people are criminals and deserve to be treated that way.

Those employers who do as you suggest, farmers and construction contractors, are breaking the law as well simply by knowingly hiring illegals. If they then exploit them, they break additional labor laws.

"If you are found to have engaged in a “pattern and practice” of hiring undocumented workers, then you can be fined up to $3,000 per employee and/or imprisoned for up to six months."

On the ICE site, repeat offenders may be fined as much as $16,000 per illegal employee.

Ok, let's say a bunch of suspected illegals are working in a field, someone calls ICE, and ICE shows up at the jobsite.... what happens then? How do you determine who is illegal?

In the case of my post, which you quoted, the employer is the one calling the authorities and has knowledge of the person's immigration status.

In the case of ICE initiated actions where the employer is completely illegitimate, they can serve a Notice of Inspection on the employer for a list of employees, their I-9 paperwork and documentation.

Alternatively for employers who at least try to go through the motion, a lot of the meat packing raids, for example, occur because of all the stolen identities and social security numbers "clustered" at that employment location... they have a list of names before they even arrive.

I don't have to prove I'm legal to anyone, unless I'm caught committing a crime, or my boss asks.

Actually, you do have to provide documentation to your employer to "prove" you are legal, employment status-wise, and your employer must keep a copy of the I-9 form and the documentation you provided them for 3 years past the end of your employment.

 

[OakRiver]

Ya know, I've seen a mayors/councilmen sworn in, but was so disinterested that I never really listened. What is the text of their oath of office?

For which jurisdiction?

 

[OakRiver]

I don't have to prove I'm legal to anyone, unless I'm caught committing a crime, or my boss asks.

I have my Green Card on me to prove I'm here legal and I'm a pasty Irish guy.

And USCIS can check any I9s so long as 3 days notice is given; https://www.uscis.gov/i-9-central/106-inspection
The INA specifically authorizes DHS, IER and DOL to inspect Forms I-9, including any copies of employees’ documents retained with the corresponding Form I-9. DHS, IER, and DOL provide employers a minimum of three days’ notice before inspecting a retained Form I-9. The employer must make Forms I-9 available upon request at the location where DHS, IER or DOL requests to see them. Forms I-9 and supporting documentation may also be sent to the agency in electronic format or hard copy if requested.

If you store Form I-9 records at an off-site location, inform the inspecting officer of the location where you store them and make arrangements for the inspection. The inspecting officers may perform an inspection at an office of an authorized agency of the United States if previous arrangements are made. Recruiters or referrers for a fee who designate an employer to complete employment verification procedures may present photocopies or printed electronic images of Forms I-9 at an inspection. If you refuse or delay an inspection, you will be in violation of DHS retention requirements.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Why is this even being considered? They should be doing neither.

I would love to see how they'd allow people to be on the rolls for local but not federal

"please don't vote for president, that would be illegal"

 

[Kutnupe14]

I have my Green Card on me to prove I'm here legal and I'm a pasty Irish guy.

And USCIS can check any I9s so long as 3 days notice is given; https://www.uscis.gov/i-9-central/106-inspection
The INA specifically authorizes DHS, IER and DOL to inspect Forms I-9, including any copies of employees’ documents retained with the corresponding Form I-9. DHS, IER, and DOL provide employers a minimum of three days’ notice before inspecting a retained Form I-9. The employer must make Forms I-9 available upon request at the location where DHS, IER or DOL requests to see them. Forms I-9 and supporting documentation may also be sent to the agency in electronic format or hard copy if requested.

If you store Form I-9 records at an off-site location, inform the inspecting officer of the location where you store them and make arrangements for the inspection. The inspecting officers may perform an inspection at an office of an authorized agency of the United States if previous arrangements are made. Recruiters or referrers for a fee who designate an employer to complete employment verification procedures may present photocopies or printed electronic images of Forms I-9 at an inspection. If you refuse or delay an inspection, you will be in violation of DHS retention requirements.

No one is saying you don't have the documentation to prove youre legal. Let's say you and I are walking down the street, and an ICE officer asks us to prove we're legal. You pull out your green card and comply. What do you think I'm going to do. Hint: it has something to do with boxing and the type of soil most often found on beaches.

 

[OakRiver]

You can determine the best course of action based on your beliefs and circumstances, even if your example seems flawed as ICE are unlikely to approach two people "walking down the street" and question them with no reason. That being said I'm happy to err on the side of obeying the lawful request of a Federal Agent, especially as the onus is on the individual to prove their citizenship.

 

[OakRiver]

I would love to see how they'd allow people to be on the rolls for local but not federal

"please don't vote for president, that would be illegal"

Sorta like staying in a country without legal permission to do so?

 

[Kutnupe14]

You can determine the best course of action based on your beliefs and circumstances, even if your example seems flawed as ICE are unlikely to approach two people "walking down the street" and question them with no reason. That being said I'm happy to err on the side of obeying the lawful request of a Federal Agent, especially as the onus is on the individual to prove their citizenship.

Stop and frisk and Convict Joe wouldn't agree.... hell, ICE wouldn't even agree. ICE has detained hundreds of American citizens for immigration checks.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

No one is saying you don't have the documentation to prove youre legal. Let's say you and I are walking down the street, and an ICE officer asks us to prove we're legal. You pull out your green card and comply. What do you think I'm going to do. Hint: it has something to do with boxing and the type of soil most often found on beaches.

And, that's not the way it works... I've never heard of ICE agents randomly asking people just walking down the street for "their papers". More likely, and frequently reported, is that ICE has their sights on an illegal alien who has a warrant out for their arrest. They track them down and nab them AT THEIR HOUSE.

IN ADDITION, they question the other people in the household as they have at the VERY LEAST a reasonable suspicion that the others in the house may be guilty of harboring a fugitive (the arrest warrant) and/or harboring an alien who entered illegally. (8 USC § 1324.a.1.A.iii at this link indicates a 5 year felony https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1324) So, yes, most states you must provide identification to law enforcement investigating a crime... or don't, and they can just arrest you on that in most states.

Edit: Added the USC code for harboring illegal aliens

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Thor, in addition to the criminal and civil penalties I mentioned earlier for employing an illegal alien, transporting or housing them "for the purpose of commercial advantage or private financial gain" is a federal felony with up to 10 years imprisonment under 8 USC 1324 (a.1.B.i)

 

[Thor]

Thor, in addition to the criminal and civil penalties I mentioned earlier for employing an illegal alien, transporting or housing them "for the purpose of commercial advantage or private financial gain" is a federal felony with up to 10 years imprisonment under 8 USC 1324 (a.1.B.i)

So let's enforce those laws...we seem to be in violent agreement here.

 

[printcraft]

I would love to see how they'd allow people to be on the rolls for local but not federal

"please don't vote for president, that would be illegal"

It's almost as if they planned it all along.

 

[Leadeye]

Change the statute to hold the executive level of companies personally responsible for the crime of hiring illegals and make the penalty 10 years in max security state prison. When the Tyson family is personally looking at ten years behind bad bars, the illegal hiring will stop the next day. Be prepared for the price of chicken to go up, there are trade offs in everything.

 

[KLB]

And, that's not the way it works... I've never heard of ICE agents randomly asking people just walking down the street for "their papers". More likely, and frequently reported, is that ICE has their sights on an illegal alien who has a warrant out for their arrest. They track them down and nab them AT THEIR HOUSE.

IN ADDITION, they question the other people in the household as they have at the VERY LEAST a reasonable suspicion that the others in the house may be guilty of harboring a fugitive (the arrest warrant) and/or harboring an alien who entered illegally. (8 USC § 1324.a.1.A.iii at this link indicates a 5 year felony https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1324) So, yes, most states you must provide identification to law enforcement investigating a crime... or don't, and they can just arrest you on that in most states.

Edit: Added the USC code for harboring illegal aliens

What about people driving down a road?

 

[Thor]

You mean operating a vehicle illegally in a place where it is illegal for them to be? Deportation seems about right.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

So let's enforce those laws...we seem to be in violent agreement here.

What about people driving down a road?

I am not a cop... but, if I pulled over a car for an infraction and the driver didn't speak English and did not have a driver's license... I might suspect I was dealing with an illegal alien, especially if they were prevalent in the area. I would say that is at least a reasonable suspicion.

 

[KLB]

You mean operating a vehicle illegally in a place where it is illegal for them to be? Deportation seems about right.

No, I mean a checkpoint where everyone is pulled over and checked.