The President Trump Immigration Thread

[SheepDog4Life]

No, I mean a checkpoint where everyone is pulled over and checked.

Other than at the borders/ports/airports, no I do not endorse such a thing... I'm opposed to sobriety checkpoints as well.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I am not a cop... but, if I pulled over a car for an infraction and the driver didn't speak English and did not have a driver's license... I might suspect I was dealing with an illegal alien, especially if they were prevalent in the area. I would say that is at least a reasonable suspicion.

Yeah, not so much. Tow the car, identify the person, cite into court. Let the court figure it out.

 

[Thor]

No, I mean a checkpoint where everyone is pulled over and checked.

No, but if for another reason they are stopped and happen to have never had a license they should be investigated further. There are plenty of ways to both start making a difference and send a message. Any illegals that remain should be minding their P's and Q's and perhaps thinking of a way to go back home and get in line for chance at not being illegal.

 

[Kutnupe14]

No, but if for another reason they are stopped and happen to have never had a license they should be investigated further. There are plenty of ways to both start making a difference and send a message. Any illegals that remain should be minding their P's and Q's and perhaps thinking of a way to go back home and get in line for chance at not being illegal.

Do you KNOW how many people, who don't "look" illegal, are Operator Never Licensed (ONL)? Do you believe that everybody who is ONL should be "investigated further" beyond simply not having a license? And exactly what, do you suppose can be done... in a reasonable time to determine status... or did we just hold them for as long as needed until we find out if they are legal?
Neverminding the fact that non-federal LE aren't tasked with enforcing immigration issues.

 

[KLB]

Other than at the borders/ports/airports, no I do not endorse such a thing... I'm opposed to sobriety checkpoints as well.

Same here. I've been through a couple of the checkpoints, very annoying.

 

[1DOWN4UP]

You could always transport them to the nearest Sanctuary City,and drop them off at City Hall.

 

[jamil]

Do you KNOW how many people, who don't "look" illegal, are Operator Never Licensed (ONL)? Do you believe that everybody who is ONL should be "investigated further" beyond simply not having a license? And exactly what, do you suppose can be done... in a reasonable time to determine status... or did we just hold them for as long as needed until we find out if they are legal?
Neverminding the fact that non-federal LE aren't tasked with enforcing immigration issues.

I haven't really thought about this much. I think immigration laws should be enforced. But how enforceable are they without violating citizens' rights? "Reasonable suspicion" shouldn't be coincidentally having some behaviors in common with people here illegally, like not having a license, or whatnot.

 

[Thor]

Do you KNOW how many people, who don't "look" illegal, are Operator Never Licensed (ONL)? Do you believe that everybody who is ONL should be "investigated further" beyond simply not having a license? And exactly what, do you suppose can be done... in a reasonable time to determine status... or did we just hold them for as long as needed until we find out if they are legal?
Neverminding the fact that non-federal LE aren't tasked with enforcing immigration issues.

I'm sure there's a policy that could make sense. If you are 20 and have never had a license, it's a lot different than if you're 35-40 and have never had a license; one says you may be lazy the other begs the question of how you do business here. There are IDs available that are not licenses, that would answer the question as well. Every one of them I see in the paper has been taken to the county jail. Seems there would be plenty of time to send ICE a note.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I'm sure there's a policy that could make sense. If you are 20 and have never had a license, it's a lot different than if you're 35-40 and have never had a license; one says you may be lazy the other begs the question of how you do business here. There are IDs available that are not licenses, that would answer the question as well. Every one of them I see in the paper has been taken to the county jail. Seems there would be plenty of time to send ICE a note.

Every one of what? ONLs? There may be a policy that could make sense, but going after licenses (or failure to have one) isn't the way to go about it.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Every one of what? ONLs? There may be a policy that could make sense, but going after licenses (or failure to have one) isn't the way to go about it.

So, what is the policy for ONLs? You pull someone over for speeding, tail light out, rolling through a stop sign, whatever. The operator doesn't have a license and the information he provides comes back as ONL. What is the next step? Does it matter if the person has no ID at all, as in you have no idea if he/she is giving you the real information or a false identity?

From your previous post, it sounds like you have the vehicle towed and impounded. What do you with the mystery person?

 

[printcraft]

So, what is the policy for ONLs? You pull someone over for speeding, tail light out, rolling through a stop sign, whatever. The operator doesn't have a license and the information he provides comes back as ONL. What is the next step? Does it matter if the person has no ID at all, as in you have no idea if he/she is giving you the real information or a false identity?

From your previous post, it sounds like you have the vehicle towed and impounded. What do you with the mystery person?

If you don't have ID there is no crime. They walk.

 

[jamil]

I'm sure there's a policy that could make sense. If you are 20 and have never had a license, it's a lot different than if you're 35-40 and have never had a license; one says you may be lazy the other begs the question of how you do business here. There are IDs available that are not licenses, that would answer the question as well. Every one of them I see in the paper has been taken to the county jail. Seems there would be plenty of time to send ICE a note.

Maybe there's an enforcement solution that isn't "papers please". In a free society it's presumed that you're law abiding until you've outwardly shown that you're not. I'd like to find a solution that doesn't change that presumption. I'll put it in INGO terms. Having a firearm in a place where it's legal to have them isn't, or shouldn't, be a reason to suspect that we've broken any laws. I think what you're suggesting gets kinda close to that. We want immigration laws enforced. I don't want people here who are here illegally. But I also don't want people to be presumed to be breaking immigration laws just because they don't have a DL.

I'm not sure if I'm doing a good job of explaining my thoughts, but enforcing the law shouldn't make suspects out of people who are here legally just because they have some vague behavioral similarities with people who might be here illegally.

 

[Kutnupe14]

So, what is the policy for ONLs? You pull someone over for speeding, tail light out, rolling through a stop sign, whatever. The operator doesn't have a license and the information he provides comes back as ONL. What is the next step? Does it matter if the person has no ID at all, as in you have no idea if he/she is giving you the real information or a false identity?

From you previous post, it sounds like you have the vehicle towed and impounded. What do you with the mystery person?

It depends, most people actually have some form of ID on them, just not a US govt issued form. Lot of (who I suspect) are illegals have passports, DLs from their home nations, or consulate IDs. If they they are reasonably legit you cite them into court, and cut them loose... if you can't determine who the person is, then you hook them, take them up north, where they'd be fingerprinted, picture taken, and then cut loose... but that is VERY rare.

 

[printcraft]

Maybe there's an enforcement solution that isn't "papers please". In a free society it's presumed that you're law abiding until you've outwardly shown that you're not. I'd like to find a solution that doesn't change that presumption. I'll put it in INGO terms. Having a firearm in a place where it's legal to have them isn't, or shouldn't, be a reason to suspect that we've broken any laws. I think what you're suggesting gets kinda close to that. We want immigration laws enforced. I don't want people here who are here illegally. But I also don't want people to be presumed to be breaking immigration laws just because they don't have a DL.

I'm not sure if I'm doing a good job of explaining my thoughts, but enforcing the law shouldn't make suspects out of people who are here legally just because they have some vague behavioral similarities with people who might be here illegally.

And here you have a perfect example of the unintended consequences of NOT keeping these illegals out in the first place.
The people made to suffer are the citizens of this country. Stuff has gotten so far out of bounds that it is focusing on the law abiding.
Much like guns, every criminal ******* is causing MY 2nd Amendment rights to be eroded.

 

[jamil]

And here you have a perfect example of the unintended consequences of NOT keeping these illegals out in the first place.
The people made to suffer are the citizens of this country. Stuff has gotten so far out of bounds that it is focusing on the law abiding.
Much like guns, every criminal ******* is causing MY 2nd Amendment rights to be eroded.

Exactly this. Enforcement should be on the front end of this. Once they're here illegally it's harder to enforce. A problem would be people who come here on work visas and then overstay their visas. But there are probably some tech solutions for that.

 

[OakRiver]

Exactly this. Enforcement should be on the front end of this. Once they're here illegally it's harder to enforce. A problem would be people who come here on work visas and then overstay their visas. But there are probably some tech solutions for that.

Check their I9s and whether those people are still employed/reporting taxes

 

[SheepDog4Life]

It depends, most people actually have some form of ID on them, just not a US govt issued form. Lot of (who I suspect) are illegals have passports, DLs from their home nations, or consulate IDs. If they they are reasonably legit you cite them into court, and cut them loose... if you can't determine who the person is, then you hook them, take them up north, where they'd be fingerprinted, picture taken, and then cut loose... but that is VERY rare.

Thanks, Kut. As you explain it, I could see that some foreign nationals could be here on legit travel... really cannot tell they aren't legit unless they basically "confess". And, even then, it's not a local LE action.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Here is a very good article that details a day with ICE in Riverside California as they pursue 6 illegal aliens with criminal records. (if you get pay-walled, open the link in an incognito window)

The Immigration Frontlines | The Weekly Standard

It is interesting to note that the increase in ICE actions on those who are "only" in the country illegally is DIRECTLY caused by sanctuary city policies. ICE is out looking for someone the sanctuary city released and encounters others in country illegally, whom they then take into custody for processing. Had the local police/jail turned over the convicted criminal, or at least notified ICE when they were going to be released, ICE would have picked him up there, not been out on the streets looking for him/her.

Also, here is a description of those ICE was seeking on this particular day:

They are not the worst of the worst, but they are eligible for deportation because of their criminal histories: felony spousal abuse, assault with a deadly weapon, drug trafficking. Five of the subjects are Mexican; one is Lebanese.

And, reading the article, these are all CONVICTIONS, not charges.

It's shameful that politicians want to protect these people and keep them on their streets.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Perhaps you haven't heard, but... you know what, nevermind. The above is full of misinformation.

THe news reports are full of stories that the cartel "fee" to get across the border has increased from $2-3,000 under Obama to $6,000 now. This BBC video interview with a man who was deported twice indicates that if you do not use a cartel coyote, if you don't have the password, you will be turned in, kidnapped or killed. The cartel doubtless views DIY attempts to cross as "stealing" $6,000 from them.

At 2:29 in the following video:

Trump's wall: On patrol in the border's deadliest town - BBC News

 

[SheepDog4Life]

President Trump immigration reform plan has deep support in surprising places. Take for example Michigan where support for half a million (RAISE ACT limit) or less immigrants per year has 64% support, while 1 million (current limit) or more has only 22%.

That's a 3-to-1 issue, folks! And it's the kind of issue that could very well add Michigan to Trump's column in 2020 and more blue collar, working-class people vote for policies that serve their interests after being ignored by Democrats for decades.

https://www.numbersusa.com/news/michigan-poll-2017