The President Trump Immigration Thread

[JettaKnight]

I think you're not understanding me. The machines make money by keeping them here, not sending them back. The illegals are a valuable resource to them.

Respectfully, you're not understanding me: Trump is directing a shift in policy to go after a new set of illegal aliens (e.g. those that received notices) instead of who ICE is targeting now (crims & border protection). Let's follow that money. What payoff is gained by this shift?



AFAIK, ICE isn't adding agents, and they're already at 100% utilization...

 

[JettaKnight]

Eh, don't get so hung up on a phrase. The "follow the money" shtick is a simple explanation for why things seem to go against what's most sensible to an average person, and it seems like it works out that way much more often than not. We have laws against illegal immigration. Both the traditional sides seem to have a hard-on for illegal immigration, because, well, follow the money. To do the sensible thing isn't a "follow the money" kind of thing. Or, maybe **** it. Maybe rule of law is a ****ty idea, and we should just all ignore laws and have arbitrary rule of **********s.

I dunno. It's not so much a money thing, or a voting thing, but more and ideological thing - another wedge issue to getting lathered up about.

It sure would be nice if the clowns in DC would stop yelling about it, and start solving it.



As to this voting thing, anyone got hard evidence or is this just all a bunch of musing? I really don't know what to think about that. If Jose is voting, well, I guess that's better than Joe that doesn't bother because he's cooking meth.

 

[Sylvain]

Have you ever seen the people that work our elections, they are 80 year old volunteers I doubt they'd tell the difference from one license to another. Also we have plenty of American citizens who drive without insurance saying this would force illegals to get insurance is wishful thinking.

From what I understand in some states you need to show proof of insurance in order to get a driver's licence.
Not sure how it works in California.

 

[Dead Duck]

'NY county clerk says he won't enforce law giving drivers' licenses to illegal immigrants, warns of voter fraud'


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ny-county-clerk-drivers-license-illegals-voter-fraud-dangerous

 

[Trigger Time]

From what I understand in some states you need to show proof of insurance in order to get a driver's licence.
Not sure how it works in California.

You can take them fake proof, they are very good at getting fake documents. Or they can buy it for 1 month and then not renew it. The BMV doesnt verify it unless youre in an accident. Ive always had insurance. I dont play those games.
Funny thing happened to me once. I had an accident and like 5 years later BMV sent me proof of insurance request for the time of the accident. Lol. Talk about dropping the ball.

 

[BugI02]

From what I understand in some states you need to show proof of insurance in order to get a driver's licence.
Not sure how it works in California.

There's an easy fix. Insurance companies required to report to BMV whenever a policy lapses or is initiated. A simple computer search could tell when a policy was not in force (at any company) on a particular DL, could identify a pattern of establishing insurance only for show at renewal time and if the state had the political will could match DLs to comprehensive list of insured to produce a list of likely uninsured motorists - a list which could be disemminated to LE and watched for with digital plate reading technology

 

[Timjoebillybob]

A) Not seeing a whole lot of people lining up to work fields or process chickens. Nor do I see shoppers asking for higher food prices.
B) FIFY.Not sayin' it's not a good idea to get some deportations going, but but sometimes the "follow the money" logic is tinted by ones political POV. If Joe replaces Jose in the field, Joe is just as likely to be suckling at the govt. teet.

No idea what the cost of labor from field work or processing chickens adds to the cost. But I do have an idea for pork. A pork processor near me pays somewhere about $15 per hr average for line workers. They have about 2000 employees total and process 20000 hogs a day. At 8 hrs a day, $15 per hour it works out to about $.08 per lb. And that is only counting "retail meat" not anything else. When they say they use everything but the oink, they mean it. Animal feed/fertilizer/pharmaceutical products/etc are all sold which when factored in would lower that 8 cent per lb.

The problem with LEGAL Immigration is that it just takes too long to LEGALLY come over. It sure would be nice to just fix this problem instead of being stuck with this illegal headache.

A large part of the time it takes to come here legally is due to quotas, a smaller part is processing delays. To fix it would require almost unlimited legal immigration and a massive increase in personnel to process. Also to go along with the unlimited legal immigration, you would also have to have a low almost non existent requirements for those who can. Basically to fix illegal immigration through immigration reform, you would almost have to have an open border.

I'm missing the point. You know those votes won't be counted, right, regardless of the mental capacity of the poll worker. Now if you're complaining that illegals in voting lines are adding to congestion, ok, I can get onboard with that.

Not sure on that. While you would think that, and it shouldn't be that hard to do, not sure of the reality of it.
https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article223886630.html

There's an easy fix. Insurance companies required to report to BMV whenever a policy lapses or is initiated. A simple computer search could tell when a policy was not in force (at any company) on a particular DL, could identify a pattern of establishing insurance only for show at renewal time and if the state had the political will could match DLs to comprehensive list of insured to produce a list of likely uninsured motorists - a list which could be disemminated to LE and watched for with digital plate reading technology

Easy fix, but one which would cost consumers and taxpayers. They have something like that in IN for some drivers, it's called SR22 insurance. It's required for some who have been convicted of some driving offenses. It's well more expensive than insurance for someone with the same offenses, but not the SR22 requirement.

 

[HoughMade]

From what I understand in some states you need to show proof of insurance in order to get a driver's licence.
Not sure how it works in California.

To get a driver's license? I'd be interested hear where. I have never heard of this. To register a vehicle/get license plates, sure, but not to become a licensed driver.

 

[Sylvain]

To get a driver's license? I'd be interested hear where. I have never heard of this. To register a vehicle/get license plates, sure, but not to become a licensed driver.

In California you need to show proof of insurance before taking the driving test to get a licence.

That's why the article I read said that allowing illegal immigrants to get a licence will be a way to make sure they have car insurance.
But it's just to take the test, you can even show up with a friend's car and use somebody else's insurance during the driving test.

But like TT said earlier it doesn't mean they will have insurance once they start driving their own car, or that they will renew it.

 

[HoughMade]

In California you need to show proof of insurance before taking the driving test to get a licence.

That's why the article I read said that allowing illegal immigrants to get a licence will be a way to make sure they have car insurance.
But it's just to take the test, you can even show up with a friend's car and use somebody else's insurance during the driving test.

But like TT said earlier it doesn't mean they will have insurance once they start driving their own car, or that they will renew it.

Are you sure that they aren't just proving that the vehicle they are using for the test is insured?

 

[BugI02]

This^^^ I'm not even sure you can get insurance w/o being already licensed

 

[Leadeye]

Eh, don't get so hung up on a phrase. The "follow the money" shtick is a simple explanation for why things seem to go against what's most sensible to an average person, and it seems like it works out that way much more often than not. We have laws against illegal immigration. Both the traditional sides seem to have a hard-on for illegal immigration, because, well, follow the money. To do the sensible thing isn't a "follow the money" kind of thing. Or, maybe **** it. Maybe rule of law is a ****ty idea, and we should just all ignore laws and have arbitrary rule of **********s.

Thanks, that's a good explanation of the phrase.

I've observed over the years that where there's money to be made it usually is, and those that make the big money prefer to remain unseen doing it. When ideology, morals, or "right" in the common sense would seem to dictate one course of action and things go a different way, I figure you should be looking for where the money goes. It's just a part of human nature.

When leadership deplores the state of our immigration system and vows to fix it, but just seems to run in circles, I look for where the money is going.

 

[Leadeye]

Respectfully, you're not understanding me: Trump is directing a shift in policy to go after a new set of illegal aliens (e.g. those that received notices) instead of who ICE is targeting now (crims & border protection). Let's follow that money. What payoff is gained by this shift?



AFAIK, ICE isn't adding agents, and they're already at 100% utilization...

You're right, we aren't talking about the same thing. Let's just leave it at that.

 

[Sylvain]

Are you sure that they aren't just proving that the vehicle they are using for the test is insured?

Yeah I guess it's just for the test.

Once they get their licence they can drive another car without insurance.Maybe once they get a licence, instead of driving without one, it's easier for them to get car insurance.

I really don't know.
I'm just trying to understand the argument that providing illegal immigrants with a driver's licence is somehow making them get insurance.

I don't even know if they can get insurance if they are not supposed to be in the country in the first place.
Now they are just driving legally while being there illegally, instead of driving illegally while being there illegally.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Trump tweets ICE operation.

Trump cancels operation.

At the request of Democrats, I have delayed the Illegal Immigration Removal Process (Deportation) for two weeks to see if the Democrats and Republicans can get together and work out a solution to the Asylum and Loophole problems at the Southern Border. If not, Deportations start!

Those within the administration believe acting DHS Sec. McAleenan (or his staff) leaked operational details and that is what put the ICE operation in jeopardy ultimately, according to two sr. administration officials. “Leaking the locations and details to stop the operation from happening not only harmed operational integrity, but it put the safety and well-being of his own officers in jeopardy," said one sr. official. "The ICE mission is enforcing the nation’s laws and ensuring those who are unlawfully present in the country are removed if ordered by a judge; this will leave an un-erasable mark on his tenure.”

 

[KMaC]

Over 50% of the cars in Center Township, Marion Co, IN aren't insured. Get insurance to get plates and immediately cancel it. Get in an accident with no insurance and you get a ticket that you don't pay, that gets your license revoked, but you don't care cause you're gonna drive without insurance so you're gonna drive without a license.

 

[KMaC]

I'm sensing a trend here.
https://www.wthr.com/article/trump-delays-nationwide-operation-deport-immigrants
Make a policy announcement about a wall, a tax, a bombing mission, or ICE raids, then cancel at the last minute. How many times will his base accept fake announcements before calling him on it?

 

[Dead Duck]

I'm sensing a trend here.
https://www.wthr.com/article/trump-delays-nationwide-operation-deport-immigrants
Make a policy announcement about a wall, a tax, a bombing mission, or ICE raids, then cancel at the last minute. How many times will his base accept fake announcements before calling him on it?

Keep em on their toes.
It's not crying wolf when he follows through on the other times.

 

[actaeon277]

Liberals love all immigrants... unless the immigrant is conservative and comes over legally.

[video=youtube;Af9WMBribYQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af9WMBribYQ[/video]

 

[actaeon277]

So, AOC complains about conditions at the borders, but then she shoots down the bill that would provide money to make better conditions.