The Open Carry Argument

[actaeon277]

I conceal carry myself, but if you want to open carry go for it.

I open carry myself, but if you want to conceal carry go for it.

I see what you did there.

 

[Hoosierman]

Did a ride along today with a department in northern Indy area. Got to talking about civilian carry, and he was very against the idea of open carry, said it was your right, but stupid to exercise it. I held my tongue as I'm an applicant, but it was tough.

 

[lonehoosier]

Let me guess because you will be the first one shot. There's a lot of truth to that because I get gunned down seven times a week.

 

[Hoosierman]

Let me guess because you will be the first one shot. There's a lot of truth to that because I get gunned down seven times a week.

Those were his exact words.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Those were his exact words.

Should have asked him how many times he gets shot at each week for OC

 

[ATM]

Let me guess because you will be the first one shot...

Those were his exact words.

It's just one of those commonly held notions that seems to make sense.

Until one actually ponders it and applies any sort of critical thinking to the myth, it often attempts to pass as unchallenged truth.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Should have asked him how many times he gets shot at each week for OC

And how many actual instances of this he could cite.

 

[MisterChester]

The way I see it, it doesn't matter that much how you carry in terms of being targeted by a criminal. I would think most criminals want to commit their crimes the path that's quickest with least resistance. On the other hand, violent criminals usually aren't reasonable people. Is it possible that you'll be shot first by an armed attacker? Absolutely. The more appropriate question is what are the chances of this happening. From what I gather, it's pretty minimal. It is your right to OC or CC and take the risks associated with doing so. It really depends on the thinking process of the criminal, which no two are the same. Since it can vary so much, there is no reason to think that OC or CC will put you in any more danger than the other. I can understand why this particular LEO said it, after all it is his job to ensure the safety of the people he is sworn to protect.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

The way I see it, it doesn't matter that much how you carry in terms of being targeted by a criminal. I would think most criminals want to commit their crimes the path that's quickest with least resistance. On the other hand, violent criminals usually aren't reasonable people. Is it possible that you'll be shot first by an armed attacker? Absolutely. The more appropriate question is what are the chances of this happening. From what I gather, it's pretty minimal. It is your right to OC or CC and take the risks associated with doing so. It really depends on the thinking process of the criminal, which no two are the same. Since it can vary so much, there is no reason to think that OC or CC will put you in any more danger than the other. I can understand why this particular LEO said it, after all it is his job to ensure the safety of the people he is sworn to protect.

Hardly. They have no obligation to protect anyone. The Heckler's Veto is bullying, plain and simple.

 

[eldirector]

after all it is his job to ensure the safety of the people he is sworn to protect.

That is RICH!

Actually, you are very much correct (on the first part). There are as many different criminal mindsets are there are law-abiding citizen mindsets. No single method of carry will deter all possible criminals.

That said, there have been MANY studies of criminal behavior, and they all speak to your "least resistance" comment. Crooks want an easy target. If you don't look easy, for ANY reason, they will move on. It is the old joke about your friend and the bear: you don't need to outrun the bear, just outrun your friend.

 

[MisterChester]

I will admit my last sentence was a little tongue in cheek. How do you turn on half-purple?

 

[1withthegun]

Good Read and for the most part I do not take my Glock 22 out and carry it on me unless I am going to be places I know people will not be alarmed by me carrying it ! I do know that when Winter comes here and I am wearing a coat it is much easier to carry it because it will be under my coat and out of sight . Also when I am Deer Hunting we are allowed to keep a sidearm on us so then I will always have it on me . For me the times I have any problems is mostly A--hole Drivers so the Glock is handy in my truck just to deter the A--holes if they would come up to my vehicle and threaten me !!!

 

[lonehoosier]

Good Read and for the most part I do not take my Glock 22 out and carry it on me unless I am going to be places I know people will not be alarmed by me carrying it ! I do know that when Winter comes here and I am wearing a coat it is much easier to carry it because it will be under my coat and out of sight . Also when I am Deer Hunting we are allowed to keep a sidearm on us so then I will always have it on me . For me the times I have any problems is mostly A--hole Drivers so the Glock is handy in my truck just to deter the A--holes if they would come up to my vehicle and threaten me !!!

Welcome to INGO from Hobart. There quite of few of us that OC in the Portage,Hobart and Lake Station area. We are a pretty active group in northwest Indiana. Check out the event section for NWI events. Hope to see you at one.

NWI INGO General Post - Part 6
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break-room/294268-nwi-ingo-general-post-part-6-a-593.html
you might just want to jump to the last page. It's just us chatting.
But you might want to "subscribe" to it.


Also, here is a link to the NWI INGO group.
Northwest Indiana - INGunOwners
http://tinyurl.com/6t2g3w8
You might want to "join" it, to receive updates on local events.

 

[Mark 1911]

For me the times I have any problems is mostly A--hole Drivers so the Glock is handy in my truck just to deter the A--holes if they would come up to my vehicle and threaten me !!!

What???????????

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

^^^is that you with your fingers on the triggers in that avatar pic 1withthegun ??


(lol. from one n00b to another, welcome)

 

[protias]

...after all it is his job to ensure the safety of the people he is sworn to protect.

Not really, but you'd think so!

Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)
DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services (109 S.Ct. 998, 1989; 489 U.S. 189 (1989))
Balistreri v. Pacifica Police Department (901 F.2d 696 9th Cir. 1990
Zinermon v. Burch (110 S.Ct. 975, 984 1990; 494 U.S. 113 (1990)
Riss v. New York, 240 N.E.2d 860 (N.Y.1968).
Hartzler v. City of San Jose, 46 Cal. App. 3d 6 (1st Dist. 1975)
South v. Maryland
Bowers v. Devito
Davidson v. City of Westminster
Westbrooks v. State of California

 

[lonehoosier]

This afternoon I had lunch at George's Gyros in Hobart and had a short conversation with an off duty LEO for Hobart. I think he was because he had a paper I.D. badge clip to his shirt and drove off in a patrol car. He came up to me and asked me.

(LEO) What department do you worked for.

(Me) I'm just a civilian.

(LEO) Do you always carry your firearm like that.

(Me) Everyday.

(LEO) Do you think that's safe.

(Me) What do you mean?

(LEO) You'll be the first one shot if this place gets robbed.

(Me) Can you tell if that has ever happened before.

At this point he's just looking at me so I ask him to have a seat. He still just looking at me so again I asked him to have seat. And then he tells me he does not have the time for me. As he is walking away from me to go set back down I said I was hoping to have a civil conversation with you.


He goes back to set down for about 5 minutes with he's buddy and then gets up and leaves. Not another word said to me.

 

[MisterChester]

This afternoon I had lunch at George's Gyros in Hobart and had a short conversation with an off duty LEO for Hobart. I think he was because he had a paper I.D. badge clip to his shirt and drove off in a patrol car. He came up to me and asked me.

(LEO) What department do you worked for.

(Me) I'm just a civilian.

(LEO) Do you always carry your firearm like that.

(Me) Everyday.

(LEO) Do you think that's safe.

(Me) What do you mean?

(LEO) You'll be the first one shot if this place gets robbed.

(Me) Can you tell if that has ever happened before.

At this point he's just looking at me so I ask him to have a seat. He still just looking at me so again I asked him to have seat. And then he tells me he does not have the time for me. As he is walking away from me to go set back down I said I was hoping to have a civil conversation with you.


He goes back to set down for about 5 minutes with he's buddy and then gets up and leaves. Not another word said to me.

I think you handled that just fine. Good job!

 

[CPT Nervous]

This afternoon I had lunch at George's Gyros in Hobart and had a short conversation with an off duty LEO for Hobart. I think he was because he had a paper I.D. badge clip to his shirt and drove off in a patrol car. He came up to me and asked me.

(LEO) What department do you worked for.

(Me) I'm just a civilian.

(LEO) Do you always carry your firearm like that.

(Me) Everyday.

(LEO) Do you think that's safe.

(Me) What do you mean?

(LEO) You'll be the first one shot if this place gets robbed.

(Me) Can you tell if that has ever happened before.

At this point he's just looking at me so I ask him to have a seat. He still just looking at me so again I asked him to have seat. And then he tells me he does not have the time for me. As he is walking away from me to go set back down I said I was hoping to have a civil conversation with you.


He goes back to set down for about 5 minutes with he's buddy and then gets up and leaves. Not another word said to me.

So did you get shot or not? I've been carrying openly for over two years, and I cannot tell you the amount of times I've been shot. I'll be paying my hospital bills until the day I die.


I saw an OCer at work today. He was at PNC Bank on Ireland. I was loading up my truck when he walked out, and I called him over. I asked if he was on INGO, he said no. He told me he worked at Kodiak. I thanked him for OCing, although he had *tried* to cover it. I could clearly see it as I was walking out.

He told me since he saw the truck, and was going into the bank, he didn't want to put anyone on edge. I told him OC didn't bother me, and that I do it in my personal life as well. He said he never knows, and doesn't want to make anyone nervous.

I appreciate his sentiment, but I feel much less nervous about open carry than a sloppily covered handgun.

 

[ATM]

...

(LEO) You'll be the first one shot if this place gets robbed.

(Me) Can you tell if that has ever happened before.

At this point he's just looking at me so I ask him to have a seat. He still just looking at me so again I asked him to have seat...

You blew his mind when you challenged what he had presented as an unquestionable truth.

You see, he didn't think of his statement as an unsupported or even flawed notion, he likely thought he was enlightening you to what he'd always considered a universally obvious fact - thus his "deer in the headlights" look and inability to even discuss it further with you.

Hopefully, he will further consider the weakness of that notion before blurting it out there again and placing himself in a position to look foolish when it isn't the conversation ender he thought it was.