The Open Carry Argument

[actaeon277]

Isn't this considered advocating for gun control? Doesn't that make him a hypocrite?

How?
He want's gun control.

 

[chipbennett]

How?
He want's gun control.

Ah, I think I misread. I thought he was an anti-open carry Fudd.

 

[actaeon277]

Ah, I think I misread. I thought he was an anti-open carry Fudd.

Well, it started out on a page where they made an open carry comment, and I thought it was a pro-gun page I follow, when it was really an anti-gun page.
This is what started it.

Oops.
I was on Facebook, and someone was arguing about open carry.
I thought it was

https://www.facebook.com/HaSoGCA/
Hypocrisy and Stupidity of Gun Control Advocates.

instead... it was

https://www.facebook.com/HSOHSGCA/?...FXpDAsrX8eDHB2cgM3PMZ5MMRe9kZgvJFx2X8&fref=nf
Hypocrisy and Stupidity of Gun Control Opponents.



That went well.
As usual with anti-gunners, not a single fact.

 

[nakinate]

[video=youtube_share;ksbBmnPAwOw]https://youtu.be/ksbBmnPAwOw[/video]

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Not an OC issue but an SA issue. Pops let BG in his space.

 

[lonehoosier]

[video=youtube_share;ksbBmnPAwOw]https://youtu.be/ksbBmnPAwOw[/video]

Not an OC issue but an SA issue. Pops let BG in his space.

Here's the old thread on it. https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...my-gun-so-i-gave-him-case-lead-poisoning.html

Also what's your point?!

Conceal And Carry Holder Robbed With His Own Gun « WCCO | CBS Minnesota

 

[nakinate]

Not an OC issue but an SA issue. Pops let BG in his space.

It’s more than that if we’re being honest. The SA was a problem, but he was being robbed for his gun. I’m pro OC, just stirring the pot is all.

 

[comm2679]

I haven't read every post in this thread, but I read the entire essay in the initial post. I advocate concealed carry. A few things:

1. I couldn't give a darned less what people think of the fact that I carry a gun. However, I do know that open carry will attract way more attention, be it positive or negative, than concealed carry. My goal when in public is to attract the least attention possible.

2. If you open carry you had better be using level II or higher retention holsters. Anything less is irresponsible, but that's just my opinion. A friction fit kydex or leather holster is an easy victim to a from-behind gun grab. And before you tell me you're situationally aware enough to know for 100% certain when someone is or is not sneaking up on your 6, I would argue that you aren't, plain and simple. Your head would have to be on a 360 degree swivel at 60 rpm for that to be the case. And good luck going anywhere where you'll be standing in a line of people waiting for something without looking like a paranoid schizophrenic. I've never seen an OC'r with a real retention holster besides a Serpa, which is a bad choice (re: Tex Grebner). My concealed draw (from appendix carry) is faster than my level II retention draw. I wouldn't be one bit behind the curve.

3. I don't buy into the deterrent argument, especially nowadays. With the heinous crimes committed on the regular these days, my money isn't on deterrence. If an attacker's primary objective is the biggest body count he can create, your openly carried weapon probably won't even be a blip on his radar.

4. There are lots of scenarios where it would be advantageous to you for a bad guy not to know immediately that you are armed. Think bank robbery (I go into banks exponetionally more often than 7-11's). The ability to step aside and act like all the other sheep until the bad guy turns his back (see my previous argument about the myth of 100% situational awareness) could be a key tactical advantage. In my neck of the woods, I believe that scenario is more likely than a random mugging where OC MAY deter the bad guy. With OC you have only one option, which is everybody knowing you're armed, whether that's what's best in the moment or not. With CC, you have the choice to appear unarmed until you decide it's time.

i am going to point out that I am, first and foremost, a second amendment supporter to the bone. I may disagree with OC, but I'll fight to the death for your right to do it if that's what you want. Secondly, my attitude towards OC is biased because of my own personal encounters with it. I rarely (I'm talking 1 out of 10) see anyone doing it in a way that looks secure to the point where it would defeat a gun grab, which is the biggest concern I have about OC. Most times I see guys with $10 Uncle Mikes velcro holsters. It's also not uncommon to see the old "jeans tucked into cowboy boots with kel-tec P3AT clipped to the OUTSIDE of a pants pocket like a cell phone". That infuriates me. But like I said, it's their right to do so. I just think if you're going to do it, steps should be taken to keep your weapon out of the hands of the bad guys.

If I were to ever open carry, it would be with a rifle. If everybody's got to know I'm armed, at least I'll be ARMED. That's my tongue in cheek argument to the OC contention that deterring crime is more important than the sheep's comfort levels and "not caring what anybody else thinks". Why aren't OC guys all carrying rifles then? A rifle can be easily slung to free up your hands so that you can take care of your errands. It's not illegal to do so...maybe it's got something to do with...not alarming the general public? Maybe OC advocates care about alarming the public more than they know they do.

I'm getting saucy for only my 20th post, I know lol.

 

[churchmouse]

Retention holster..........Drops mic

 

[2A_Tom]

I OC in a really floppy worn out uncle Mike's fanging on my sweat pants.

 

[actaeon277]

I OC in a really floppy worn out uncle Mike's fanging on my sweat pants.

And you make people cry, just because they've been late a few times.

 

[2A_Tom]

Well I paid you back in spades last time. You were on time and I was late.

 

[protias]

I haven't read every post in this thread, but I read the entire essay in the initial post. I advocate concealed carry. A few things:

1. I couldn't give a darned less what people think of the fact that I carry a gun. However, I do know that open carry will attract way more attention, be it positive or negative, than concealed carry. My goal when in public is to attract the least attention possible.

2. If you open carry you had better be using level II or higher retention holsters. Anything less is irresponsible, but that's just my opinion. A friction fit kydex or leather holster is an easy victim to a from-behind gun grab. And before you tell me you're situationally aware enough to know for 100% certain when someone is or is not sneaking up on your 6, I would argue that you aren't, plain and simple. Your head would have to be on a 360 degree swivel at 60 rpm for that to be the case. And good luck going anywhere where you'll be standing in a line of people waiting for something without looking like a paranoid schizophrenic. I've never seen an OC'r with a real retention holster besides a Serpa, which is a bad choice (re: Tex Grebner). My concealed draw (from appendix carry) is faster than my level II retention draw. I wouldn't be one bit behind the curve.

3. I don't buy into the deterrent argument, especially nowadays. With the heinous crimes committed on the regular these days, my money isn't on deterrence. If an attacker's primary objective is the biggest body count he can create, your openly carried weapon probably won't even be a blip on his radar.

4. There are lots of scenarios where it would be advantageous to you for a bad guy not to know immediately that you are armed. Think bank robbery (I go into banks exponetionally more often than 7-11's). The ability to step aside and act like all the other sheep until the bad guy turns his back (see my previous argument about the myth of 100% situational awareness) could be a key tactical advantage. In my neck of the woods, I believe that scenario is more likely than a random mugging where OC MAY deter the bad guy. With OC you have only one option, which is everybody knowing you're armed, whether that's what's best in the moment or not. With CC, you have the choice to appear unarmed until you decide it's time.

i am going to point out that I am, first and foremost, a second amendment supporter to the bone. I may disagree with OC, but I'll fight to the death for your right to do it if that's what you want. Secondly, my attitude towards OC is biased because of my own personal encounters with it. I rarely (I'm talking 1 out of 10) see anyone doing it in a way that looks secure to the point where it would defeat a gun grab, which is the biggest concern I have about OC. Most times I see guys with $10 Uncle Mikes velcro holsters. It's also not uncommon to see the old "jeans tucked into cowboy boots with kel-tec P3AT clipped to the OUTSIDE of a pants pocket like a cell phone". That infuriates me. But like I said, it's their right to do so. I just think if you're going to do it, steps should be taken to keep your weapon out of the hands of the bad guys.

If I were to ever open carry, it would be with a rifle. If everybody's got to know I'm armed, at least I'll be ARMED. That's my tongue in cheek argument to the OC contention that deterring crime is more important than the sheep's comfort levels and "not caring what anybody else thinks". Why aren't OC guys all carrying rifles then? A rifle can be easily slung to free up your hands so that you can take care of your errands. It's not illegal to do so...maybe it's got something to do with...not alarming the general public? Maybe OC advocates care about alarming the public more than they know they do.

I'm getting saucy for only my 20th post, I know lol.

The funny thing is, it doesn't look like you even bothered to read the first post.

 

[wtburnette]

The funny thing is, it doesn't look like you even bothered to read the first post.

Read, just disregarded I'm thinking.

 

[comm2679]

Having different opinions and viewpoints than those expressed in the essay does not equate to disregard. In fact, I did the opposite of disregarding the initial post by taking the time to write a thought out response to it.

 

[protias]

Having different opinions and viewpoints than those expressed in the essay does not equate to disregard. In fact, I did the opposite of disregarding the initial post by taking the time to write a thought out response to it.

Now the question becomes, do you have the evidence to back up your opinion?

 

[ATM]

I like saucy.

I also enjoy sammiches.

 

[wtburnette]

Having different opinions and viewpoints than those expressed in the essay does not equate to disregard. In fact, I did the opposite of disregarding the initial post by taking the time to write a thought out response to it.

True enough, though there have been enough posts that rebut pretty much all of your points. Either way, I'm happy with you carrying however you like and I'll do the same. At least I don't clip my phone to my pocket or use a floppy nylon Uncle Mike's. I'm not one of those guys...

 

[2A_Tom]

We need to have a statewide INGO Meet and Greet at a walmart near you all of us in sweats with unk mikey holsters. Say 2 PM New Years Day, see you there.

 

[comm2679]

We need to have a statewide INGO Meet and Greet at a walmart near you all of us in sweats with unk mikey holsters. Say 2 PM New Years Day, see you there.

Ill be there with bells on, concealed of course
Seriously though, as long as the way you carry is backed by reasoning, carry on. Every individual and locale is different and calls for a unique approach to our duty of defending ourselves, our loved ones, and those who cannot defend themselves.