The executive prerogative to not enforce laws

[Kirk Freeman]

Destruction of the rule of law=>lawessness of government=>war & disorder=>anarchy=>Rule of the Strong Man.

INGOarchists are getting what they crave.

 

[T.Lex]

Heya,

Just trying to figure out where I fit into your INGOtarian political spectrum.

 

[chipbennett]

While a good portion of folks may actually disapprove of his actions (48% as polled) the fact is that they DO want something done and the republican congress has totally failed to deliver, even on plans offered by their own people. They are the problem in this instance, not Obama. Yeah, he may have stepped in it, but he has done nothing illegal or unConstitutional and even he has said all the congress has to do to make it go away is get off their lazy, partisan asses and pass immigration reform, as the vast majority of Americans want them to do.

"Republican Congress"? So Harry Reid is really a Republican in charge of the Senate?

If the American populace were displeased with how the Republicans ran the House of Representatives, they could effect change every two years - which is why the Republican majority has waned since 2010, right? Oh, you mean to tell me that Americans were so displeased with the Republican control of the House of Representatives that they just gave them a post-WWII record majority?

And as an added bonus: the American people were so happy with how the Democrats were running the senate that they just gave the Republicans a resounding majority.

And what does people who believe that government is too big, and spending too much of tax-payers' money (Taxed Enough Already) have anything to do with the illegal immigration issue - other than, perhaps, being rightfully upset that their taxes are going to fund public services used by illegal immigrants?

 

[Denny347]

"Republican Congress"? So Harry Reid is really a Republican in charge of the Senate?

If the American populace were displeased with how the Republicans ran the House of Representatives, they could effect change every two years - which is why the Republican majority has waned since 2010, right? Oh, you mean to tell me that Americans were so displeased with the Republican control of the House of Representatives that they just gave them a post-WWII record majority?

And as an added bonus: the American people were so happy with how the Democrats were running the senate that they just gave the Republicans a resounding majority.

And what does people who believe that government is too big, and spending too much of tax-payers' money (Taxed Enough Already) have anything to do with the illegal immigration issue - other than, perhaps, being rightfully upset that their taxes are going to fund public services used by illegal immigrants?

While the Repubs did get the majority, the voter turn out was the worst since 1943, I'm not sure that is something the Republicans should be proud of or take it as a signal. The fact that so few turned out to vote says something about the state of our political process in general. The Republicans nor the Democrats seemed to get people motivated at all. I do not see it as a win but rather the Republicans loss a little less than the Democrats.

 

[chipbennett]

While the Repubs did get the majority, the voter turn out was the worst since 1943, I'm not sure that is something the Republicans should be proud of or take it as a signal. The fact that so few turned out to vote says something about the state of our political process in general. The Republicans nor the Democrats seemed to get people motivated at all. I do not see it as a win but rather the Republicans loss a little less than the Democrats.

I'm not sure how that's relevant here. If Americans were so incensed, they sure didn't show it on election day. Thus, the consent of the governed stands as the results of the elections show: an even bigger Republican majority in the House, and a +9 swing and Republican control of the Senate.

There is absolutely no basis in the 2014 election to claim that Obama is carrying out the will of the people by circumventing a so-called "do-nothing" Congress.

 

[rambone]

Yay, now we have another immigration thread. zzzzz

 

[Denny347]

I'm not sure how that's relevant here. If Americans were so incensed, they sure didn't show it on election day. Thus, the consent of the governed stands as the results of the elections show: an even bigger Republican majority in the House, and a +9 swing and Republican control of the Senate.

There is absolutely no basis in the 2014 election to claim that Obama is carrying out the will of the people by circumventing a so-called "do-nothing" Congress.

Apathy is what was shown on election day. The "will" of the people is "who cares?" They obviously do not since they stayed home rather than vote. If the Republicans had moved their base as much as they like to think more of them would have made it to the polls. The Republicans won and that was certainly no surprise but the Democrats set such a LOW bar that the Republicans should have decimated the Democratic Party . Obama is so toxic to the Democrats that the Republicans should have broken the Democratic party, beaten them so badly that it would take a decade to recover. As it stands now, they just barely won, leaving the Democrats quite capable of recovering in 2 years. The Republican Party needs to work on drawing more voters.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Apathy is what was shown on election day. The "will" of the people is "who cares?" They obviously do not since they stayed home rather than vote. If the Republicans had moved their base as much as they like to think more of them would have made it to the polls. The Republicans won and that was certainly no surprise but the Democrats set such a LOW bar that the Republicans should have decimated the Democratic Party . Obama is so toxic to the Democrats that the Republicans should have broken the Democratic party, beaten them so badly that it would take a decade to recover. As it stands now, they just barely won, leaving the Democrats quite capable of recovering in 2 years. The Republican Party needs to work on drawing more voters.

The Democrats have been concentrating on simultaneously suppressing the Republican vote while whipping up their base for the past 10 years. Nothing previous has been as blatant as the IRS suppressing Tea Party-type organizations prior to 2012, and of course, the Dems' strident accusations of racism, sexism, bigotry and any other -ism they could think of got so stupid that even their base didn't turn out for them. Don't try to paint this past election as anything other than a cry by voters (not the non-participants - whose opinions shouldn't count for anything since they couldn't be bothered to be counted one way or another) to stop the Democrats and their agendae.

 

[Denny347]

The Democrats have been concentrating on simultaneously suppressing the Republican vote while whipping up their base for the past 10 years. Nothing previous has been as blatant as the IRS suppressing Tea Party-type organizations prior to 2012, and of course, the Dems' strident accusations of racism, sexism, bigotry and any other -ism they could think of got so stupid that even their base didn't turn out for them. Don't try to paint this past election as anything other than a cry by voters (not the non-participants - whose opinions shouldn't count for anything since they couldn't be bothered to be counted one way or another) to stop the Democrats and their agendae.

Ah, the Republican Party are VICTIMS? Victims of the Democratic Party? Once you adopt the mentality that you are a victim you give control of your life over to someone else. This applies to individuals as well as group think (political party). Rather than act like victims, they need to ask themselves, "what part of this situation do I own?" "Blaming is the last resort for the defeated." Let's hope they do something constructive with this gift given to them by the voters.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Ah, the Republican Party are VICTIMS? Victims of the Democratic Party? Once you adopt the mentality that you are a victim you give control of your life over to someone else. This applies to individuals as well as group think (political party). Rather than act like victims, they need to ask themselves, "what part of this situation do I own?" "Blaming is the last resort for the defeated." Let's hope they do something constructive with this gift given to them by the voters.

Never said the Republicans were "victims", I merely said the Democrats attempted to suppress their opposition (although not in those words). Although, I have to say, the Republican leadership in Washington certainly acts like victims of "The Stockholm Syndrome", since they are more-or-less continuously under attack by the establishment media around them no matter what they do. I am hopeful that leadership will arise within the Republican Party and will force the current wishy-washy leadership to take stronger action than they have indicated they want to take thus far.

 

[Denny347]

Never said the Republicans were "victims", I merely said the Democrats attempted to suppress their opposition (although not in those words). Although, I have to say, the Republican leadership in Washington certainly acts like victims of "The Stockholm Syndrome", since they are more-or-less continuously under attack by the establishment media around them no matter what they do. I am hopeful that leadership will arise within the Republican Party and will force the current wishy-washy leadership to take stronger action than they have indicated they want to take thus far.

You're more optimistic than I

 

[steveh_131]

I get such a warm feeling knowing that INGOtarians support the rule of the individual's whim--despotism.

I knew all that juvenile rhetoric about Liberty was just a stalking horse for a fascist agenda, and now we have proof beyond any doubt.

This makes absolutely no sense. Do you seriously succeed as a lawyer with these disconnects in logic? Or do you just use words that you don't understand?

Definition of despotism: "the exercise of absolute power, especially in a cruel and oppressive way."

Please point out a single post in this thread that advocates absolute power for the executive branch.

The arguments that I have made and have seen can only result in less power for the government. One branch wants the government to act and another can prevent it, resulting in no action.

There are only two options. Either you are exercising complete intellectual dishonesty or you have no idea what the word 'despotism' means.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

This makes absolutely no sense. Do you seriously succeed as a lawyer with these disconnects in logic? Or do you just use words that you don't understand?

Definition of despotism: "the exercise of absolute power, especially in a cruel and oppressive way."

Please point out a single post in this thread that advocates absolute power for the executive branch.

The arguments that I have made and have seen can only result in less power for the government. One branch wants the government to act and another can prevent it, resulting in no action.

There are only two options. Either you are exercising complete intellectual dishonesty or you have no idea what the word 'despotism' means.

Although Kirk can defend himself, I can't tell if you're being deliberately ingenuous or just staking out a strawman argument. The responses I've seen seem to be justifying Obama's Executive Order as a legitimate exercise of Executive power and I can't see how deliberately disregarding immigration statutes coexists with the President's Oath to faithfully execute the laws of the United States.

 

[steveh_131]

Although Kirk can defend himself, I can't tell if you're being deliberately ingenuous or just staking out a strawman argument. The responses I've seen seem to be justifying Obama's Executive Order as a legitimate exercise of Executive power and I can't see how deliberately disregarding immigration statutes coexists with the President's Oath to faithfully execute the laws of the United States.

That is a reasonable argument and, in fact, is the exact argument taking place in this thread.

Calling it "despotism", however, and accusing everyone of supporting "despotism" is both inaccurate and a perfect example of a "strawman".

 

[steveh_131]

Check out executive order 13603.

This might merit calling him a 'dictator'. Despotism is an exaggeration but at least the right ballpark.

I'm sure I could come up with plenty more executive orders by this idiot that would add up to calling him a dictator.

But a decision that stops the government from acting in some way does not qualify.

 

[chipbennett]

Apathy is what was shown on election day. The "will" of the people is "who cares?" They obviously do not since they stayed home rather than vote. If the Republicans had moved their base as much as they like to think more of them would have made it to the polls. The Republicans won and that was certainly no surprise but the Democrats set such a LOW bar that the Republicans should have decimated the Democratic Party . Obama is so toxic to the Democrats that the Republicans should have broken the Democratic party, beaten them so badly that it would take a decade to recover. As it stands now, they just barely won, leaving the Democrats quite capable of recovering in 2 years. The Republican Party needs to work on drawing more voters.

If you don't vote, then your voice doesn't count. Anyone incensed about immigration or any other matter, but who failed to vote, willingly disenfranchised themselves. Sorry, not sorry. That's how a constitutional republic works. Vote, or shut up.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Apathy is what was shown on election day. The "will" of the people is "who cares?" They obviously do not since they stayed home rather than vote. If the Republicans had moved their base as much as they like to think more of them would have made it to the polls. The Republicans won and that was certainly no surprise but the Democrats set such a LOW bar that the Republicans should have decimated the Democratic Party . Obama is so toxic to the Democrats that the Republicans should have broken the Democratic party, beaten them so badly that it would take a decade to recover. As it stands now, they just barely won, leaving the Democrats quite capable of recovering in 2 years. The Republican Party needs to work on drawing more voters.

If you don't vote, then your voice doesn't count. Anyone incensed about immigration or any other matter, but who failed to vote, willingly disenfranchised themselves. Sorry, not sorry. That's how a constitutional republic works. Vote, or shut up.

I'm not so sure we're not better off if fewer people vote. If your circle of friends and family are like mine, probably the percentage I would judge having an educated opinion (misguided or not) on significant issues of the day, roughly reflects the turn out in midterm elections such as these. I've got pockets of friends and family that are very knowledgable but I'd bet the majority of the others couldn't pass Beck's Moron Trivia or Leno's Jay Walking quizzes.

I know it's popular to urge people to get out and vote, let their voices be heard, and all those other platitudes but maybe we ought to asterisk that with "* if you know what the heck you're doing".

 

[Denny347]

I'm not so sure we're not better off if fewer people vote. If your circle of friends and family are like mine, probably the percentage I would judge having an educated opinion (misguided or not) on significant issues of the day, roughly reflects the turn out in midterm elections such as these. I've got pockets of friends and family that are very knowledgable but I'd bet the majority of the others couldn't pass Beck's Moron Trivia or Leno's Jay Walking quizzes.

I know it's popular to urge people to get out and vote, let their voices be heard, and all those other platitudes but maybe we ought to asterisk that with "* if you know what the heck you're doing".

I guess it depends who gets out to vote...it could be good...it could be bad. Some dingbats choose to stay home and I am sure there are intelligent people who stayed home (it was a midterm I guess). Neither party is doing a great job of rallying the base, the Republicans did just a little bit better than the Dems this time around.

 

[steveh_131]

I'm not so sure we're not better off if fewer people vote. If your circle of friends and family are like mine, probably the percentage I would judge having an educated opinion (misguided or not) on significant issues of the day, roughly reflects the turn out in midterm elections such as these. I've got pockets of friends and family that are very knowledgable but I'd bet the majority of the others couldn't pass Beck's Moron Trivia or Leno's Jay Walking quizzes.

I know it's popular to urge people to get out and vote, let their voices be heard, and all those other platitudes but maybe we ought to asterisk that with "* if you know what the heck you're doing".

He's not encouraging people to vote, he's encouraging them to shut up.

I disagree. Choosing not to vote makes a statement as well and your opinion can still be valid.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

He's not encouraging people to vote, he's encouraging them to shut up.

I disagree. Choosing not to vote makes a statement as well and your opinion can still be valid.

The problem with that strategy is it's indiscernible from the ignorant and lazy.