The (Current year) General Political/Salma Hayek discussion Thread Part V

[Phase2]

I would say the average Republican is someone that is thoroughly disgusted by the policies and antics of the Republican Party to the point of being almost ready to quit voting for those idiots, only to have the Democrats do something so revolting that it reminds him/her of why he/she continues to vote for Republicans.

The end result of all of this is that someone like Trump is viewed as no worse than the norm regardless of which particular policies/antics one disagrees with.

Close. Someone like Trump is viewed as someone capable and willing to disrupt the corrupt systems, where ever they exist. This goes well beyond Democrats (though that seems to be the center) to the media and many establishment Republicans/RINOs (many of which became Never-Trumpers or retired).

 

[KLB]

"Put it on the camp. It's their camp now"

View attachment 87053


If you wish to argue about ideological purity, might I suggest it would be better to find a Libertarian to argue with

If you wish to argue about results, who has done better since Reagan?

Funny, you guys always talk about Libertarian purity tests, yet you are the ones always talking about someone not being a real Republican.

I ask again, who is the REAL Republican, the majority that run the party or you guys who think they suck?

Maybe you guys should move to Conservative in name only. Of course that is another discussion around what is a conservative.

Where Trump is concerned, do results make him a REAL Republican? Is he fiscally conservative for instance?

I have liked much of what he has done, but he is a bit too authoritarian for my tastes.

 

[KLB]

I would say the average Republican is someone that is thoroughly disgusted by the policies and antics of the Republican Party to the point of being almost ready to quit voting for those idiots, only to have the Democrats do something so revolting that it reminds him/her of why he/she continues to vote for Republicans.

The end result of all of this is that someone like Trump is viewed as no worse than the norm regardless of which particular policies/antics one disagrees with.

I think you are spot on for both sides. It would seem that the majority of voters don't really have a party they can actually identify with anymore.

 

[T.Lex]

I think you are spot on for both sides. It would seem that the majority of voters don't really have a party they can actually identify with anymore.

Sorry, premature repification on my part.

At the national level, I'm in that group. State and local party reflect what I hold to be Republican values. Mostly.

 

[BugI02]

Funny, you guys always talk about Libertarian purity tests, yet you are the ones always talking about someone not being a real Republican.

I ask again, who is the REAL Republican, the majority that run the party or you guys who think they suck?

Maybe you guys should move to Conservative in name only. Of course that is another discussion around what is a conservative.

Where Trump is concerned, do results make him a REAL Republican? Is he fiscally conservative for instance?

I have liked much of what he has done, but he is a bit too authoritarian for my tastes.

If you've called yourself a Republican for years but tolerated the lackluster candidates, devoid of the will to fight for change, the gentlemen losers that they continuously provided you with; and accepted them being beholden to the pro-open borders pro-globalism of the Chamber of Commerce and Club for Growth - does that make you a 'real' Republican

Were you going to answer the question about who has done a better job advancing Republican-compatible goals since Reagan?

When the 'real' Republicans were offered the chance to get behind Trump after he won the nomination fairly, did they not try to [STRIKE]surrender[/STRIKE] run Evan McMuddle instead? With that attitude, perhaps the 'real' Republicans could form the Francophile party to wash their hands of the results of their efforts; or perhaps something more high sounding like The Party of Lafayette, despite that being a travesty of any truth in advertising

With the behavior of his national party towards Bernie, and mindful of the 'real' Republican party's behavior toward the Goldwater candidacy and then Trump's I can see why people are always on about there being no difference between the parties. I would prefer that conservative indicated a desire to conserve core American values rather than conserve the exact system under which the 'real' Republican was getting rich

 

[BugI02]

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-01-05/why-republicans-will-stick-with-trump-in-2020
Opinion: Why Republicans will stick with Trump in 2020 — even if they don’t love his behavior

Recently, a close friend and fellow Republican told me he was “personally shocked at what the evangelicals have been willing to stomach” from Donald Trump. I’m not shocked at all.


My friend’s sentiment — a variation on the empty “if Obama had done this, Republicans would’ve impeached him” — has become a staple of Democrats and Never Trumpers. “Are you ready to turn on him yet?” Republicans are asked over and over.

No one ever says yes. The Republicans who make a living hating Trump today hated him before he was elected. The rest of the party remains solidly behind him. The reason for that, as we enter this election year, is less granular than feeling happy or sad about a specific presidential behavior. Rather, it has to do with the general direction of the nation: Trump and whoever the Democrats nominate represent such fundamentally different directions for our country that it is almost unthinkable for a Republican voter to be seriously torn.

Run along. I think McMullin is still looking for a job, and his Stand Up Republic organization is all in for vote by mail, so it would seem he still favors the 'real Republican' way of doing the people's business

 

[KLB]

Well, I don't really consider myself a Republican, and no one seems to be able to say what makes one, so I don't know if he is better than the Bushes or not.

I like some stuff he has done. Gorsuch was a huge plus. The more I read about him as a USSC Justice, the more I like him. Kavanaugh is a lesser one. Removing some regulations has been good.

On the negative side, I think he is too quick to build up more deficit, and I think he has an authoritarian streak that I do not like.

 

[BugI02]

Well, I don't really consider myself a Republican, and no one seems to be able to say what makes one, so I don't know if he is better than the Bushes or not.

I like some stuff he has done. Gorsuch was a huge plus. The more I read about him as a USSC Justice, the more I like him. Kavanaugh is a lesser one. Removing some regulations has been good.

On the negative side, I think he is too quick to build up more deficit, and I think he has an authoritarian streak that I do not like.

That's better, real issues

1) That one seems easy. Do you think Iraq was a necessary and adviseable intervention given the justification was 9/11? That answer alone should perhaps clear up any doubts about Trump v Bush. Personally, I also wished Bush would have taken the Clinton surpluses and used them to pay down structural debt rather than rebate it to taxpayers. IMO it would have had a strong effect on the economy as well as established the precedent that something needed to be done about the overhang. He would have also needed to fight hard against new wasteful spending for the same reason

2) Agreed, would have preferred another Gorsuch to a Kavanaugh

3) Need more clarification. If you're saying the rework of the tax code was bad because it lowered gov't revenues I cannot agree. The right path, IMO, is reduce taxes going to gov't and then reduce gov't spending on needless crap of which there is a great deal. He needs his party behind him to do the former as well as the latter, but his own party is weak on the reduction of spending. Incumbents love them some pork

If you're referencing pushing out relief to people hurt by the WuVid 19 shutdowns, I don't like the actual amount of debt but I do think something needed to be done to keep us away from a real depression, and there isn't a lot of real world data points on the question. Based on the results of Hoover policies in the 30s I was willing to give Obama wiggle room on his response to the great recession because of the high cost of being wrong. I am willing to give Trump the same wiggle room, and he gets extra credit for aiming the money at the hands of people directly instead of banks and major corporations. I think the PPP's requirement that the money to business be restricted and used to retain employees on the payroll is a good idea. It keeps business ready to hit the ground running when we re-open, keeps those employees eligible for health insurance in the interim, and keeps the association between work and a better life intact which is far more preferable than a UBI in disguise

Authoritarian, or knows what he wants to do and is willing to go to the wall (no pun intended) to do it. Has he ever failed to abide by a court decision?

 

[ArcadiaGP]

An amendment to stop government from getting internet search & browsing histories without a probable cause warrant failed by one vote.

Democratic senators who sided with Mitch McConnell to kill surveillance reform: Feinstein, Whitehouse, Manchin, Kaine, Warner, Shaheen, Hassan, Jones, Carper

 

[jamil]

Well, I don't really consider myself a Republican, and no one seems to be able to say what makes one, so I don't know if he is better than the Bushes or not.

I like some stuff he has done. Gorsuch was a huge plus. The more I read about him as a USSC Justice, the more I like him. Kavanaugh is a lesser one. Removing some regulations has been good.

On the negative side, I think he is too quick to build up more deficit, and I think he has an authoritarian streak that I do not like.

A Republican is a person who is a member of the GOP. A republican is a person who typically votes for Republicans, but is not a member of the party. A RINO is a pejorative term used by people who think a given republican or Republican does not think like them but thinks that's what "real" republicans should do. It's just another form of "othering".

 

[printcraft]

A Republican is a person who is a member of the GOP. A republican is a person who typically votes for Republicans, but is not a member of the party. A RINO is a pejorative term used by people who think a given republican or Republican does not think like them but thinks that's what "real" republicans should do. It's just another form of "othering".

Dick Lugar likes this.

 

[Mikey1911]

Dick Lugar likes this.

He would, if he were alive . . . which raises the possibility that he will be voting Demo this November.

 

[BugI02]

A Republican is a person who is a member of the GOP. A republican is a person who typically votes for Republicans, but is not a member of the party. A RINO is a pejorative term used by people who think a given republican or Republican does not think like them but thinks that's what "real" republicans should do. It's just another form of "othering".

If, by this, you are suggesting McCain and Romney should be considered real Republicans then my predilection for Trumpism over traditional Republicanism is further confirmed

 

[jamil]

Dick Lugar likes this.

Dick Lugar is a member of the Republican Party. He is therefor a Republican. “Republican” is a political party, not an ideology. Many Republicans are conservatives, so many positions on their platform are conservative. That does not mean that Republicans who are not as conservative as you are not Republicans. They have the membership card. Your complaint really is that Dick Luger is not a conservative and is an elitist moderate. That’s fair. He’s not a conservative. He is an elitist **********. But he is a Republican in all the ways that matter. If you have the card too, you’re both Republicans. If you don’t, then the elitist moderate Republican ********** is more Republican than you.

The term RINO is a relic of the failed TEA Party attempt to take over the party.

 

[Indyhd]

Call them what you want, but if Romney, Murkowski, and Collins don't have a "R" next to their name you have Chuck Schumer controlling the Senate.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Rand Paul says no-knock warrants 'should be forbidden' in wake of Breonna Taylor shooting

How about this compromise - You get 5 years to prove you can do them without going to the wrong mother******* address once. The second someone does, nope, banned indefinitely.

 

[jamil]

Rand Paul says no-knock warrants 'should be forbidden' in wake of Breonna Taylor shooting

How about this compromise - You get 5 years to prove you can do them without going to the wrong mother******* address once. The second someone does, nope, banned indefinitely.

That wasn't a case of the wrong address though. And I wouldn't even compromise on it anyway. The all too often innocent person being shot during these raids make the tactic too costly for the benefit. Okay. So the bad guy has time to get rid of the evidence. That's a cheaper price than just killing people that don't need to be dead. It just happens too much.

 

[KLB]

That wasn't a case of the wrong address though. And I wouldn't even compromise on it anyway. The all too often innocent person being shot during these raids make the tactic too costly for the benefit. Okay. So the bad guy has time to get rid of the evidence. That's a cheaper price than just killing people that don't need to be dead. It just happens too much.

Have to agree. They have become all too common, and too many seem to have little real oversight for them.

Sadly, I don't see Congress doing anything about them.

 

[jamil]

Have to agree. They have become all too common, and too many seem to have little real oversight for them.

Sadly, I don't see Congress doing anything about them.

No, they won't do anything. The R's run on being tough on crime. The D's tacitly approve of it while pretending they don't. It's a loser proposition. No one takes Rand Paul seriously. They just kinda roll their eyes and say, "there he goes again."

 

[actaeon277]

Too much freedom...

[video=youtube_share;ViGKjBRkYyI]https://youtu.be/ViGKjBRkYyI[/video]