The 2020 General Election Thread

[KLB]

Thank you for talking down to me and assuming I haven't thought through the consequences. I don't hold republicans and their influence in overall high esteem. A republican paradise sounds nothing short of repulsive to me.

I value separation of church and state. I value bodily autonomy. I value free enterprise. I value the absolutely free movement of people and ideas. I value privacy. I value non-aggression. I value open markets...as such, I value unrestricted access to arms...and I also value unrestricted access to drugs.

The republicans share only one of those values with me and their practical record of supporting that value has been spotty.

Republicans began to lose me with the endless foreign wars, unfunded tax cuts, and crony bailouts. Now with Trump and his administrative back-door gun control there really isn't anything left on the republican agenda to overcome the negatives.

I vote for the candidate that more closely represents my world view. This time it means voting for the guy that openly supports gun control. I really wish I had a better choice.

You and I share a lot of the same values. I have to say I do not share your evaluation of the two parties concerning those values though.

Let me break down how I see it by issue
Church and State - I really don't see an attempt by the Rs to eliminate this separation. I'm closer to you on religion than not. The representation of religion or speaking of religion does not bother me, which is where most of the conflict on this issue seems to come from. Where is anyone trying to force anyone to follow a certain religion?

Bodily autonomy - It really irks me how both sides wrap their beliefs in fluffy wording. This issue is really pro or anti one thing, people need to just call their stance what it is. I tend to think we should stick to the original Roe ruling. The Ds in many cases today seemingly want to take it way past that. The Rs want to ban it totally.

Free Movement of people - Is either side against this?

Freedom of ideas - The move of the Ds towards assaulting the 1st amendment is truly troubling to me. Somewhat on the religious persecution front, but much more on the freedom of speech. The proliferation of hate speech laws and wrong think crusades against people are trying to force people to not be able to express their beliefs. I, for one, think that people have a right to be bigots, idiots, or just plain disagree without being arrested, harassed, or have their lives ruined.

Privacy - The Ds have a little bit of a lead here. The Rs do seem to like themselves some big brother government. Sadly though, the Ds are not very far behind them in that. I only see a few outspoken politicians championing the people on this issue.

Non-aggression - How can you compare Obama and Trump's Presidency and think that this is a R issue? Trump has actually been the only President in a long time to not get us involved in more .

Open Markets - This one is like Privacy to me. Both sides suck.

Arms - Trump pissed me off with the bumpstock ban, and the Rs in Congress really are not the ardent supporters they claim to be for the most part. The others are right though, the Ds today make no effort to hide their disdain for the 2nd Amendment and their desire to attack it if given the opportunity.

Drugs - I agree with you here, and I think Tombs is right. This ball has topped the crest and is starting to roll downhill. Momentum is picking up and it will be impossible to stop.

Taxes - Unfunded? Seriously? You don't fund not taking more of our money. The .gov has to quit spending so damned much. Neither side has any appetite for that. At this point our Federal government is a joke financially. There is no pretense of spending anywhere within our means. Its all purely monopoly money to them, and they see there being an endless supply of it. I say let me keep more of mine while they spend us into a financial collapse that will probably put the world into a war that will make WWII look like a skirmish. The only question is whether I will still be alive to see it.

When I look at Biden, I see an old fool who will sign-off on whatever nonsense hate laws, gun laws, new protected class, or tax hikes his party chooses to throw there

 

[PaulF]

KLB...thank you for taking the time to write that out. I appreciate your efforts to sincerely engage. Rep inbound.

You are correct...we agree on a wide spectrum, and you make some valid arguments against my points. Believe my when I say I mean you no disrespect.

I think you understand that I don't state my case to subvert your gun rights, I do so in support of issues that are more important to me than they are to INGO on whole.

I have no interest in spiting Republicans, I'm trying to live my ideals.

Thanks again for the awesome post.

 

[OakRiver]

https://www.wric.com/news/politics/...accused-of-dumping-mail-and-election-ballots/

Oh look, more tampering with the electoral process by USPS, which we have been assured doesn't happen...

 

[OakRiver]

Ric Grenell's Twitter account was locked, after he shared a warning about potential voter fraud: https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020...ount-of-ric-grenell-over-voter-fraud-warning/

 

[OakRiver]

Ladies and gentlemen, our next debate moderator: Steve Scully

https://smpa.gwu.edu/steve-scully
"While attending college, he served as an intern in the office of Delaware Sen. Joseph R. Biden, and later a staff assistant in Sen. Edward M. Kennedy’s communication office. "

Steve also recently reached out to Scaramucci, who favors a Biden administration, on Twitter, seemingly for advice on how to handle Trump during the debate: https://www.foxnews.com/media/debat...t-asking-scaramucci-should-i-respond-to-trump

 

[KLB]

KLB...thank you for taking the time to write that out. I appreciate your efforts to sincerely engage. Rep inbound.

You are correct...we agree on a wide spectrum, and you make some valid arguments against my points. Believe my when I say I mean you no disrespect.

I think you understand that I don't state my case to subvert your gun rights, I do so in support of issues that are more important to me than they are to INGO on whole.

I have no interest in spiting Republicans, I'm trying to live my ideals.

Thanks again for the awesome post.

Thanks. I wish there was a viable party more in line with my values. One of the biggest reasons I will vote Trump this time is Gorsuch. I am not as enamored of Kavanaugh or Barrett, but he was an awesome appointment in my book. The chance of getting another one like him wins it. We don't need another justice that is as partisan as the liberal justices usually are. On a couple of occasions I have either disagreed with or been unhappy with his votes, but after reading his reasoning I have not been able to fault it.

 

[NKBJ]

The Stand

Yeah, the Stephen King novel. Most people whether they ever read the book or not think it's about a deadly virus that wipes out almost all of mankind. That's the setting for the story. What it's really about is good versus the spiritual and physical embodiment of evil, much like what we are living through today.

Recently Archbishop Vigano doubled down on calling out people in high places globally in both governments and the church who are bringing the luciferian new world order to fruition, going even further than he did in this summer's open letter to President Trump. As the people who are working for the normalization of evil have no choice but to come out into the open to accomplish their goals, what Helena Blavatsky termed the externalization of the hierarchy, the people who will take a stand against evil will increasingly be revealed and targeted. The archbishop is making his stand. It's almost as if he is inviting them to try to strike him down. If you aren't familiar with what has been going down, who and what Archbishop Vigano is, here's a link.
https://www.trunews.com/stream/arch...nism-freemasonry-deep-state-deep-church-cabal

Recently I've had the occasion to ask many people who they think President Trump is the front man for. And, frankly, the most relevant answer heard so far is something along the lines of "oh he's got his own money and isn't fronting for anybody". But mostly what I've heard is crickets. So OK, I said all that to say this. The people who have arrayed themselves against President Trump have defined themselves and in so doing have defined the president. At this late date it's beyond me how one could vote against the man without looking in the mirror and admitting to themselves that yes, they intend to support evil. About the president, I still do not think I have a handle on who brung him to the dance, but I'm getting a pretty good picture of who he's dancing with.

So, yeah, I'm pulling the big R lever.

 

[Alpo]

https://www.wric.com/news/politics/...accused-of-dumping-mail-and-election-ballots/

Oh look, more tampering with the electoral process by USPS, which we have been assured doesn't happen...

This has been around for a couple of days. Please provide us with the math on how this act of terrorism will affect the vote overall.

 

[jamil]

I have convinced myself of no such thing.

It would be one thing if republicans were absolutely steadfast in rhetoric and record in their unwavering support for the 2A...but they're not, they're just better than the democrats. Voting R used to be a no-brainer for me. The 2A, their vocal opposition to deficit spending, and their focus on smaller government/individual liberty were large enough upsides for me vote their way, even knowing they stood in direct opposition to some of my other deeply-held personal values.

In today's world republicans stand mostly for endless war, socially activist judges, and unlimited corporate welfare...even so, they would still get my vote if I trusted them with the 2A. However, I'm not going to gamble away values central to my ideology in the name of the 2A alone if the best I can hope for is "better than the democrats".

Endless wars. Trump was nominated 3 times for the Nobel Peace prize. Obama talked about ending the wars, and while in office bombed people. Trump has accomplished more than Obama did on that. Then there are the ME peace deals. Among other things. As far as foreign entanglements Trump scores much higher than Republicans before him and Democrats. Domestically? I'm not too impressed. He's over-used executive authority in a few key areas, one of course was the bump stock ban. He spends money like it's not his. On guns, again he's not the ideal 2A guarding chief executive. He's had a few misteps, one of which was pretty extreme. Overall I'd rate him a C- on guns. The bump stock problem is more an issue of overstepping authority and establishing a precedent that gun hating Democrats will certainly use if not stricken down by courts. I'd rate him a D- for his regard for rule of law.

It's almost F's across the board for Biden. I'd bet if you were less ideologically biased you might find Biden rates worse than Trump on most of your values, except the word that shall not be mentioned. You have a fairly extreme view on that and Biden is definitely closer to your view than Trump is.

 

[Phase2]

Ric Grenell's Twitter account was locked, after he shared a warning about potential voter fraud: https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020...ount-of-ric-grenell-over-voter-fraud-warning/

The left isn't even pretending to be even handed at this point.

 

[Alpo]

Looks like doxing prevention. In fact, that's what Twitter says it is.

OTOH, the butthead who won't remove the addresses is just being a dick.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Ladies and gentlemen, our next debate moderator: Steve Scully

https://smpa.gwu.edu/steve-scully
"While attending college, he served as an intern in the office of Delaware Sen. Joseph R. Biden, and later a staff assistant in Sen. Edward M. Kennedy’s communication office. "

Steve also recently reached out to Scaramucci, who favors a Biden administration, on Twitter, seemingly for advice on how to handle Trump during the debate: https://www.foxnews.com/media/debat...t-asking-scaramucci-should-i-respond-to-trump

Posted this last night. Was hoping trump would comment about it, but nothing yet. Now there saying his account was hacked. Ya, of course it was. If it was hacked, and that’s a big if, what info did the hacker see? Seems the fbi should be investigating this and pulling all their messages... but fbi lost all its credibility

 

[chipbennett]

A virtual MAGA rally, but denied a virtual debate. That's make a lot of sense...

If you don't understand the difference between the two and/or why the latter makes perfect sense, you should probably try engaging in a deeper level of understanding/thinking.

 

[OakRiver]

A Black Lives Matter chapter co-founder in California isn't happy with the prospect of voting for Biden

[video=youtube_share;_GMB4c0o_w0]https://youtu.be/_GMB4c0o_w0?t=114[/video]

 

[Tombs]

Endless wars. Trump was nominated 3 times for the Nobel Peace prize. Obama talked about ending the wars, and while in office bombed people. Trump has accomplished more than Obama did on that. Then there are the ME peace deals. Among other things. As far as foreign entanglements Trump scores much higher than Republicans before him and Democrats. Domestically? I'm not too impressed. He's over-used executive authority in a few key areas, one of course was the bump stock ban. He spends money like it's not his. On guns, again he's not the ideal 2A guarding chief executive. He's had a few misteps, one of which was pretty extreme. Overall I'd rate him a C- on guns. The bump stock problem is more an issue of overstepping authority and establishing a precedent that gun hating Democrats will certainly use if not stricken down by courts. I'd rate him a D- for his regard for rule of law.

It's almost F's across the board for Biden. I'd bet if you were less ideologically biased you might find Biden rates worse than Trump on most of your values, except the word that shall not be mentioned. You have a fairly extreme view on that and Biden is definitely closer to your view than Trump is.

I still maintain that the EO that banned bumpstocks would be infinitely easier to challenge and get overturned than if congress passed a law regarding "rate increasing devices."
That piece of legislation was all but guaranteed to be passed before that EO was put out.

And now with the talk of arm braces, and the methods the ATF is using... It's all doing a really great job of building a case to get a hell of a lot of stuff overturned and the ATF to get a long deserved de-clawing.

 

[d.kaufman]

I still maintain that the EO that banned bumpstocks would be infinitely easier to challenge and get overturned than if congress passed a law regarding "rate increasing devices."

There was no EO on Bumpstocks. That was all the ATF reclassifying them

 

[Hatin Since 87]

There was no EO on Bumpstocks. That was all the ATF reclassifying them

This.


Although, DJT did urge them to take on the task of doing so. ATF needs power stripped away, they shouldn’t be able to make those decisions imo.

 

[BugI02]

I have convinced myself of no such thing.

It would be one thing if republicans were absolutely steadfast in rhetoric and record in their unwavering support for the 2A...but they're not, they're just better than the democrats. Voting R used to be a no-brainer for me. The 2A, their vocal opposition to deficit spending, and their focus on smaller government/individual liberty were large enough upsides for me vote their way, even knowing they stood in direct opposition to some of my other deeply-held personal values.

In today's world republicans stand mostly for endless war, socially activist judges, and unlimited corporate welfare...even so, they would still get my vote if I trusted them with the 2A. However, I'm not going to gamble away values central to my ideology in the name of the 2A alone if the best I can hope for is "better than the democrats".

I just can't understand, with respect to 2A, voting for some Rube Goldberg mechanism whereby you give people openly hostile to RKBA and the 2A greatly increased power to do harm on the unproven theory that we will hold the senate and the invertebrates who haunt its corridors will somehow protect the little people. What happens if you're wrong. And why can't the same unwieldy mechanism provide protection for whatever is going on in your bedroom without changing a thing. Seems to have worked that way so far, so that assumption at least has evidentiary underpinnings

 

[BugI02]

Thank you for talking down to me and assuming I haven't thought through the consequences. I don't hold republicans and their influence in overall high esteem. A republican paradise sounds nothing short of repulsive to me.

I value separation of church and state. I value bodily autonomy. I value free enterprise. I value the absolutely free movement of people and ideas. I value privacy. I value non-aggression. I value open markets...as such, I value unrestricted access to arms...and I also value unrestricted access to drugs.

The republicans share only one of those values with me and their practical record of supporting that value has been spotty.

Republicans began to lose me with the endless foreign wars, unfunded tax cuts, and crony bailouts. Now with Trump and his administrative back-door gun control there really isn't anything left on the republican agenda to overcome the negatives.

I vote for the candidate that more closely represents my world view. This time it means voting for the guy that openly supports gun control. I really wish I had a better choice.

I doubt you can make Libertarianism happen by voting in Democrats. High price to pay for a buzz

 

[jamil]

I still maintain that the EO that banned bumpstocks would be infinitely easier to challenge and get overturned than if congress passed a law regarding "rate increasing devices."
That piece of legislation was all but guaranteed to be passed before that EO was put out.

And now with the talk of arm braces, and the methods the ATF is using... It's all doing a really great job of building a case to get a hell of a lot of stuff overturned and the ATF to get a long deserved de-clawing.

Nonsense. We were in no danger of that. There's a thread to discuss that though.