The 2017 General Salma Hayek discussion thread...Part 3!!!

[SheepDog4Life]

That's demonstrably false.

For it to be false, there would need to be articulable evidence of a crime rising to a standard of probable cause for the warrants and subpoenas issued, at the very least reasonable suspicion.

I'll wait, but I won't hold my breath.

As you know, I'm not fond of Hillary. However, the viciousness of the Republican attacks against her in her role as Secretary of State makes me wonder if you even grasp the horror that many of us feel about the attitudes and actions of the Republican party since 2000. I don't question the Bush election, but there are not many things subsequent to that point that GREATLY affect our present situation that cannot be laid at the feet of the GOP.

I won't mention Obama, because I feel he was held siege for his politics, his birthright and his race. I admire him for maintaining a dignified presence despite it all.

Whether Trump is guilty of conspiring with other nations or not...it is not our opinions that matter. He either did, or he did not. It is clear that some of his subordinates acted illegally. Please don't defend them. They have admitted to lesser crimes and not all of the unindicted co-conspirators are likely to remain so.

Trump has done much to discredit the mystery and majesty of the presidency. Perhaps that is appropriate. A civilian elected to office is not a king. But, even in the 21st Century, the citizenry deserve a leader worthy of respect. For all the many reasons pointed out by the press you so abhor, he's built his own monster and continues to feed it. The best we can hope for is he goes away quietly and as soon as practicable.

Even assuming all of that is true, which I disagree with, the American standard of law is that evidence of a crime is necessary to launch a full fledged criminal investigation of any individual. That bar has always been even higher, requiring strong evidence, to investigate a political opponent to avoid even the appearance of the abhorrent practices of totalitarian regimes.

This investigation fails on all counts. It's a witch-hunt predicated on a fishing trip, which has failed to produce anything but unrelated "minnows". It is quite in line with the Obama administration's use of all levers of government power to punish it's opponents... I refer you again to the KGB manual.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Doesn't really matter. If there is no sin, it will not be found. The evidence doesn't date and never sleeps.

again, not how our justice system works. You don't investigate people looking for sin. You notice a sin and find out who did it

alpo, I'm sure you're a law abiding guy. Would you survive a 16-member prosecutor panel with unlimited time, scope, and funds investigating you and all of your associates? Or would they probably find something, or a process crime during investigation?

 

[Phase2]

Interesting read: How the FBI Criminalized Trump’s Transition

Or would they probably find something, or a process crime during investigation?

Based on the article above, only if they wanted to.

 

[Kutnupe14]

It's amazing to see how easy it is to dismiss the crimes people who have worked so closely with this administration have committed.

 

[IndyDave1776]

It's amazing to see how easy it is to dismiss the crimes people who have worked so closely with this administration have committed.

After decades of the same thing being done (i.e., dismissing criminal activity) when the shoe was on the other foot politically, no, I, for one, am not likely to give a damn about misdeeds which have little or nothing to do with the purpose for which Mueller was supposedly hired.

 

[Kutnupe14]

After decades of the same thing being done (i.e., dismissing criminal activity) when the shoe was on the other foot politically, no, I, for one, am not likely to give a damn about misdeeds which have little or nothing to do with the purpose for which Mueller was supposedly hired.

That's conjecture. While there certainly things that were morally dubious and a fair bit of incompetence, I'm missing the illegal.... at least on the scale we're seeing, with this administration.

 

[hoosierdoc]

It's amazing to see how easy it is to dismiss the crimes people who have worked so closely with this administration have committed.

what crimes?

and can we also put Hillary, Loretta, and Lois Lerner in jail for their crimes? We're just looking for consistency here

 

[Kutnupe14]

what crimes?

and can we also put Hillary, Loretta, and Lois Lerner in jail for their crimes? We're just looking for consistency here

The crimes they've been charged with under a court of law. Hillary, Loretta, and Lois can be put in jail too whenever someone decides to charge them with whatever crime they committed. But obviously, they haven't been charged with any crimes... well, other than in the court of public opinion; which obviously has failed in convincing the real authorities in those matters.

 

[OutdoorDad]

1) a lot of “whataboutism” going on recently

2) where are all the photos?

 

[Alpo]

You all are sayin: that is not how our justice system works.

I would largely agree, except special prosecutors have been used in the past. I think it smacks of the Inquisition and should not be used. But I also don't like FISA courts with the latitude they have, most of the Patriot Act, secretly impaneled grand juries and probably one or two vagaries of the law that I don't know about or have forgotten to mention.

But, Mueller is there. He's "found" something. It now has to run its course. I seriously doubt whether the Russians affected our election to any great degree other than through utilization of internet shills. And, based on all of the bad acts on our side over the years, why would we expect anything less from our "non-friends"?

"Whataboutism". The new buzz word. The fact of the matter is, when you have to compare two variables, and one of them is historic, you are going to get a comparison. Duh. And, please give it a rest. BENGHAZI!!!!! was your war cry for years. Still is.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

It's amazing to see how easy it is to dismiss the crimes people who have worked so closely with this administration have committed.

Which is what? What crime was the FBI investigating and what crime is Mueller investigating?

You cannot name it... which is what makes it a witch hunt.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Which is what? What crime was the FBI investigating and what crime is Mueller investigating?

You cannot name it... which is what makes it a witch hunt.

Mueller is investigating the effects that Russia had on the elections. And unfortunately for the current administration, some doors were opened that led to it, and crimes were discovered. It seems pretty simple. LE is going to go wherever it appears crimes have been committed.... and it appears there might be some crimes committed, at least by three people so far.... but I suspect there will be more, and since this investigation IS legal, and sanctioned by the president's own DoJ, what the issue?

 

[jbombelli]

Mueller is investigating the effects that Russia had on the elections. And unfortunately for the current administration, some doors were opened that led to it, and crimes were discovered. It seems pretty simple. LE is going to go wherever it appears crimes have been committed.... and it appears there might be some crimes committed, at least by three people so far.... but I suspect there will be more, and since this investigation IS legal, and sanctioned by the president's own DoJ, what the issue?

Effects? Is this some nondescript shadowy term? What crime is committed when one country attempts to influence the voters of another country? That's all that really happened, and we all know it. It's just the some want to make more of it than it is because Trump.

If you don't see this whole thing for the witch hunt that it is, then I don't know what else to say.

 

[Brad69]

I am going to watch some CNN and ABC news.
That should get me caught up on the latest on the investigation !

 

[Kutnupe14]

Effects? Is this some nondescript shadowy term? What crime is committed when one country attempts to influence the voters of another country? That's all that really happened, and we all know it. It's just the some want to make more of it than it is because Trump.

If you don't see this whole thing for the witch hunt that it is, then I don't know what else to say.

Well, this "witch hunt," has found criminals. My hunch is that Trump is probably pretty dirty, and there was some quid pro quo on related to his financial history. Russians helped his business ventures, tried to help get him elected, and now he's got to pay up (lift sanctions and have a more favorable stance to Russia). If true, that would make him the biggest traitor since Benedict Arnold. But that's not proven... it's just a hunch. We shall see.... lil then, I'm enjoying the "what goes around..." or "what's good for the goose...", and the steady stream of charges, because these complaints weren't present for Bill, Barry, or Hillary.

"Lock him, or rather THEM, up!"

 

[indiucky]

If you don't see this whole thing for the witch hunt that it is, then I don't know what else to say.

It's a witch pursuit thing....

[video=youtube;o0Rt4Z5g9c0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0Rt4Z5g9c0[/video]

 

[jamil]

It's amazing to see how easy it is to dismiss the crimes people who have worked so closely with this administration have committed.

List them.

 

[Kutnupe14]

List them.

Sorry crimes they've been charged with. That work?

 

[Fargo]

Sorry crimes they've been charged with. That work?

Off the top of my head, 2 of 3 are charged with lying during the course of the investigation, correct? That isn't really discovering crimes. The other was investigated years ago for the things charged now, but the Feds now suddenly care, correct?

None of those are crimes "discovered" by the investigation, two were commited as a part of it and the other was known of way before.

 

[jamil]

Sorry crimes they've been charged with. That work?

Yes. That’ll work. List them.