The 2017 General Salma Hayek discussion thread...Part 3!!!

[Woobie]

Just a simple question. For the guys who have actually kissed a woman before, was it common practice (for a first kiss) in every instance to ask the young lady's permission? And if you didn't ask, did you get the head fake or something else?

Well if the girl said no, I didn't wait until she fell asleep so I could grab her boobs. Not sure why you think that really applies to Franken, anyway.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Sexual assault.

Did he touch her, or are you considering the kiss to be actionable?

Groping the breasts of a sleeping woman is actionable sexual assault. It'll get you on the lifetime sex offender registry after you get out of prison.

Shoving your tongue down the throat of a woman who has told you no, she doesn't want to kiss you, and multiple times at that... no idea about the law, but the appropriate, immediate "action" is a knee to the groin.

ETA: I looked it up... apparently, in most jurisdictions, an unwanted forced kiss would constitution simple (misdemeanor) battery. Here is Indiana's code for reference, (sections d-k deal with most serious battery: injuries, children, disabled, diseased fluids, etc. so not applicable):

(c) Except as provided in subsections (d) through (k), a person who knowingly or intentionally:

(1) touches another person in a rude, insolent, or angry manner;  or

(2) in a rude, insolent, or angry manner places any bodily fluid or waste on another person;

commits battery, a Class B misdemeanor.

 

[Woobie]

Looks like MSNBC is with you Alpo...I just learned a new term, "Mock Groping"....

[FONT=&amp]SNBC Live
11/16/17
11:53 p.m. Eastern[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]KASIE HUNT: We are starting to see some immediate reaction to this on Capitol Hill to those allegations and you covered what she had to say pretty well. In a nutshell, she said she was on this USO tour that Al Franken wrote — he was a comedian then, not a Senator — wrote into the script that he should kiss her. Tried to get her to rehearse it. It was uncomfortable. She avoided him after that. Then he took a picture, which his office now says was of a joke, that showed him potentially — not actually groping, but mock-groping her while she was asleep.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp](....)[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]12:17 p.m. Eastern[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]HUNT: She says he wrote a part into their skit that required him to kiss her and that he tried to rehearse the kiss backstage that made her uncomfortable. And then she also published a picture that was given to her of her asleep with Senator Franken mock-groping her[/FONT]

That's his claim. The picture doesn't show a "mock" groping. Just a groping.

 

[Woobie]

Most of these guys used bundling beds before marriage, Kut.

Good one. I'm a prude because I think a woman shouldn't be groped in her sleep by someone she has already turned away.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

How you can get a kiss from a "strange" woman (i.e. a stranger vs a romantic involvement) and be funny, no hilarious, at the same time...

[video=youtube_share;EBgHuQoRHp0]https://youtu.be/EBgHuQoRHp0?t=1m32s[/video]

Crud, the link should start at 1:32. Not sure why it doesn't?!?!?!

 

[Alpo]

Groping the breasts of a sleeping woman is actionable sexual assault. It'll get you on the lifetime sex offender registry after you get out of prison.

Shoving your tongue down the throat of a woman who has told you no, she doesn't want to kiss you, and multiple times at that... no idea about the law, but the appropriate, immediate "action" is a knee to the groin.

Good lecture to give some 15 year old. I'm not sure you have a case here though.

 

[Brad69]

This comment is not on the conduct of any one person.
It seems we have a modern day “Witch Hunt” this is a real social thing that happens!
People get whipped into a fever over perceived or real threat and go on the offensive.
Most of the witches did get a trial the guys now are just being labeled “pervert” with just accusations right or wrong.
This is accusation storm is going to hit a person who didn’t do anything and will end badly.
If you have a situation where one person can accuse another and it is taken as fact without the rule of law is deeply troubling.

It seems that the perception that our lawmakers are stupid with low morale levels is right!
They have artificial power not earned authority and respect.

 

[Alpo]

Good one. I'm a prude because I think a woman shouldn't be groped in her sleep by someone she has already turned away.

So, you can honestly say you have never done anything disrespectful in the presence of or to a woman that in today's environment might bring about disapproval?

 

[Woobie]

Did he do it on this job? If the answer is no, then it's up to some ADA to determine whether there is a criminal offense within the statute of limitations.

Ultimately, the voters will decide. Isn't he up for re-election in 2018?

So I really want to know at what level of clothing I can grab a woman's breasts without consent, Alpo. Where is the line? Is it body armor? IBA, IOTV, both? How about a plate carrier? With or without plates? Level III, Level IV? Maybe just a leather vest?

You seem to think he did nothing wrong because he only grabbed the armor. That she was wearing. Over her breasts.

 

[Alpo]

Answer the question.

 

[Woobie]

So, you can honestly say you have never done anything disrespectful in the presence of or to a woman that in today's environment might bring about disapproval?

I really don't recall doing that, no. I certainly haven't groped a woman in any way that wasn't welcome, nor have I pretended to. Well, my wife has had to smack my hand away when I got frisky and she didn't want anyone to see. I've probably used a few double entendres around women before.

And no, I haven't "aped".

 

[Kutnupe14]

Did you read her account? She told him no multiple times, they didn't need to rehearse the kiss. Simply badgering her into a kiss she didn't want to do makes him a loser in my book. Non-consensual groping of her breasts makes him a criminal and sex offender.

My question still stands. Anybody care to answer it? Here, I'll make it easy. I've tried to kiss a girl, grabbed her hips, pulled her close, and got the head face before. Anybody else?

 

[Woobie]

Answer the question.

I'll throw you a dog bone. I know you will continue to rudely ignore my question, but I will answer yours. Yes, he did do it on the job.

 

[Woobie]

My question still stands. Anybody care to answer it? Here, I'll make it easy. I've tried to kiss a girl, grabbed her hips, pulled her close, and got the head face before. Anybody else?

No. I have tried to lean in and kiss to make up for a fight, and had her turn away. But I haven't tried to pull her toward me.

 

[Woobie]

Good lecture to give some 15 year old. I'm not sure you have a case here though.

He doesn't have a case because there is an excuse for what Franken did?

 

[Kutnupe14]

No. I have tried to lean in and kiss to make up for a fight, and had her turn away. But I haven't tried to pull her toward me.

Huh? I'm not following. A fight?

 

[Woobie]

Huh? I'm not following. A fight?

You know, a spat, quarrel, disagreement. Women are not always open to a kiss after one. So, yeah, I've had a girl turn away from a kiss. But I've never tried to force one.

 

[Alpo]

I guess what I'm saying is that over my 50 years over 18, I've observed all sorts of behavior by men around women, with women, when talking about same, etc etc etc. There are some things I've said or ways that I acted when I was much younger that I would not do again, if given half a chance. None of those would rise to the level of a crime as I was brought up pretty well in a religious family with 6 sisters who didn't take grief from any boy or brother.

But I think I draw the line differently than you do. I consider intercourse by an adult on a young person to be an outrage and criminal. I don't necessarily see Franken's actions here as anything other than dumb. If he gets sued for it an loses in a civil trial...well, the chips have fallen where they may. But I'm not going to call for his resignation just as I didn't get all that upset when Wilbur Mills ended up in a fountain with Fannie whats-her-name, drunk out of his mind. Wilbur was about the most knowledgeable tax man that ever sat on Ways & Means and it would have been a shame to judge his career on that one act.

And that appears to be what this "Star Chamber" is doing today: judging a person's life work based on a single event. I think it stinks.

On the other hand, we all agree that Hillary's life work is awful and probably criminal at some level. Yet I give her a pass on Benghazi just like you don't.

I try not to judge others that I meet too harshly, yet it is easy to appear so on the internet. That's the nature of this beast.

I'm afraid I stand by Al Franken, just like I might have if it was Dick Cheney in a similar circumstance: I don't think it rises to the level of a crime.

Opinions differ.

 

[Brad69]

KUT
The difference is when you got the “head face” you stopped!
and I hope it wasn’t a Jerry Lee Lewis reenactment!

 

[Kutnupe14]

You know, a spat, quarrel, disagreement. Women are not always open to a kiss after one. So, yeah, I've had a girl turn away from a kiss. But I've never tried to force one.

Am talking about first kisses. I hope you don't get into fights with a chick, and then go in for a kiss to make up. lol