The 2017 General Political discussion thread, Part 2!

[Dddrees]

A couple of points. If you're intellectually honest you'll admit that no Democratic president since Johnson faced this kind of opposition from big media like Trump has. It's hard to trust polls from news outlets that effectively fly the #resist flag through every broadcast. I can see more than half of news stories regarding trump being negative, because he's controversial, rude, unconventional, etc. They tend to create narratives and push them without proving the case. For example, the now commonly held belief that Trump and all his supporters are racist is utterly fabricated. I'm not sure what the realistic ratio of negative to positive reports should be, but certainly >90% does not reflect reality.

I've said this to you many times. If you want people to take you credibly, you have to have earned it by saying credible things.

Yes, yes and Trump is currently riding a wave of immense popularity? Get real. Yes, that maybe true with his followers, but I very much doubt that his base isn't shrinking. Maybe just maybe a man so repulsive and wrong headed due to his very own actions might just undue himself. Like I said, time will tell.

 

[Dddrees]

i will......poles are crap because they always pole more dems than reps.....

Ah I see now, so you thinking this is a win for Trumpy as your thinking 36% of Dems actually approve of Trump. Wow, those righties sure know how to spin things don't they? LOL

 

[ghitch75]

Ah I see now, so you thinking this is a win for Trumpy as your thinking 36% of Dems actually approve of Trump. Wow, those righties sure know how to spin things don't they? LOL

no 36% are all the reps poled....all the rest a dems....LOL....

 

[jamil]

Yes, yes and Trump is currently riding a wave of immense popularity? Get real. Yes, that maybe true with his followers, but I very much doubt that his base isn't shrinking. Maybe just maybe a man so repulsive and wrong headed due to his very own actions might just undue himself. Like I said, time will tell.

No. You're wrong. Trump is not popular, partly because of himself, and partly because of a dishonest media has emphasized negatives (even fabricated) while suppressing any positives. If all you listen to are the people who hate Trump, you live in an echo-chamber every bit as much as the people who only listen to those who love him. (Sorry to those of you who hate that term, I do too, but I only use it because it's pretty universally understood.)

So what I'm saying is that, even though Trump has some very negative qualities, you tend to overestimate the negatives by a lot, because you refuse to look at all of reality. You only seem to see what you want seen. That kind of commentary is only valuable to those who only want to hear how bad Trump is. I don't want that. I just want to hear what's real. I don't care about sides. There are some people on both sides, including you, who seem to care most about what tickles your ears. That has zero value to people who care about reality.

 

[Dddrees]

No. You're wrong. Trump is not popular, partly because of himself, and partly because of a dishonest media has emphasized negatives (even fabricated) while suppressing any positives. If all you listen to are the people who hate Trump, you live in an echo-chamber every bit as much the people who only listen to those who love him. (Sorry to those of you who hate that term, I do too, but I only use it because it's pretty universally understood.)

So what I'm saying is that, even though Trump has some very negative qualities, you tend to overestimate the negatives by a lot, because you refuse to look at all of reality. You only seem to see what you want seen. That kind of commentary is only valuable to those who only want to hear how bad Trump is. I don't want that. I just want to hear what's real. I don't care about sides. There are some people on both sides, including you, who seem to care most about what tickles your ears. That has zero value to people who care about reality.

No actually your wrong but I'll try not to insult your intelligence like you just tried to insult mine. No, I really don't need anyone else to tell me that a habitual liar, a conspiracy theorist, a narcissist such as he with his fondness for strongmen and those types of activities he's adopted and somebody who believes that isolationism will make America Great is wrong headed, dangerous, and extremely repulsive. No, actually I looked at his actions, his words, and not those of the media and determined that for myself.

And yes all these things are out there, and yes they are proven as well.

 

[Dddrees]

no 36% are all the reps poled....all the rest a dems....LOL....

Ah, so no matter the numbers somehow your able to work them to your advantage no matter what. LOL

 

[jamil]

No actually your wrong but I'll try not to insult your intelligence like you just tried to insult mine. No, I really don't need anyone else to tell me that a habitual liar, a conspiracy theorist, a narcissist such as he with his fondness for strongmen and those types of activities he's adopted and somebody who believes that isolationism will make America Great is wrong headed, dangerous, and extremely repulsive. No, actually I looked at his actions, his words, and not those of the media and determined that for myself.

And yes all these things are out there, and yes they are proven as well.

Oh. So then YOU intentionally dial it up to 11 then, rather than hearing it in your echo chamber. I'll believe you're interested in what is reality when you start accurately reflecting it. You've only represented the parts of reality that suits you. And talk about conspiracies, you cling to the collusion story as if it were already proven. There may well be something to it, but it's far from being as factual as you regard it as evidence by your posts.

 

[jamil]

no 36% are all the reps poled....all the rest a dems....LOL....

Well, not really. I would tend to rate Trump negatively and I'm neither Rep nor Dem. But I'd certainly say I tend to rate Trump higher than Dems do. There are some things Trump does that I like. Trump has done many things that Dems like, actually, and they hate him for it because it's him.

Ah, so no matter the numbers somehow your able to work them to your advantage no matter what. LOL

you're*

Sorry. Just a habit I've formed having to constantly correct my 16 year old.

 

[indiucky]

Well when he's also known to say he can grab a woman's **** anytime he wants..... All I know is I'm glad that wasn't my daughter that he hugged. Just saying.......

I hear you...

"Keep that cigar fresh for me darling...My humidor is broke..."

 

[Dddrees]

Oh. So then YOU intentionally dial it up to 11 then, rather than hearing it in your echo chamber. I'll believe you're interested in what is reality when you start accurately reflecting it. You've only represented the parts of reality that suits you. And talk about conspiracies, you cling to the collusion story as if it were already proven. There may well be something to it, but it's far from being as factual as you regard it as evidence by your posts.

Ah, so you want to continue trying to insult me even though I told you why I find Trump so repulsive and dangerous? Congratulations preacher you can be a hypocrite too.

 

[Dddrees]

I hear you...

"Keep that cigar fresh for me darling...My humidor is broke..."

'Mommy, Johnny did it first." Oh yes, this most certainly absolves Trump of being a morally corrupt sexual pervert. H*** you subscribe to this why should we even put sexual perverts on watch lists? It's morally acceptable after all, let's embrace it. You know, two wrongs always make a right.

The response on the right is no better than the left. There just your responses. However if you wish to really get it right then you need to denounce it when it's wrong no matter who does it. Clinton was wrong, but get this Trump is as well.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Ah, so you want to continue trying to insult me even though I told you why I find Trump so repulsive and dangerous? Congratulations preacher you can be a hypocrite too.

Lol, that's not an insult.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Ah I see now, so you thinking this is a win for Trumpy as your thinking 36% of Dems actually approve of Trump. Wow, those righties sure know how to spin things don't they? LOL

I tend to go by what I see... what I see is that online, not just here but most places that have debate, is that there is always ONE hysterical, rapibly anti-Trump voice who responds to... every... single... post... with maximum vitriol turned up to 11. There are usually one or more rapidly pro-Trumper's who drank the red koolaid instead of the blue, who are just as fierce. The vast majority don't like the situation, but aren't rabid either way, and seek to approach the real issues sensibly... they are shouted out by "rabids" until they just tune out.

Ditto on the TV... most of the non-political people I know simply don't watch the news anymore. They've tuned out and are tired of it... they don't believe that Trump is a Russian puppet, nor do they believe that he is a very "nice" person. They are waiting to see what happens. All of them would prefer to have a job with insurance versus ObamaCare.

In other words, it's still "The economy, stupid" and if Trump delivers on the economy while keeping us safe and not mired in a distant war, he'll have 8 years. If he doesn't he won't.

 

[jamil]

Ah, so you want to continue trying to insult me even though I told you why I find Trump so repulsive and dangerous? Congratulations preacher you can be a hypocrite too.

I'm not trying to insult you. I'm just saying what reality looks like from here. I find Trump repulsive. In some ways I find him dangerous. His GOP acceptance speech was probably the most authoritarian I've ever heard personally. But I don't *hate* him just because I think mostly negative about him. Objectively, he's just a person who has negative and positive attributes which affect his ability to lead the nation.

I mean, you seem to act as if it would be a betrayal of your principles not to have it dialed to 11 for every thing Trump does. I just think that isn't realistic. it sounds more like you're motivated by vendetta than by the objective facts of Trump's poor character. I think you're ideologically or perhaps emotionally incapable of recognizing any positive trait Trump may have, regardless of the negative ones. That's just not being real, and I'm just being honest about that.

 

[jamil]

I tend to go by what I see... what I see is that online, not just here but most places that have debate, is that there is always ONE hysterical, rapibly anti-Trump voice who responds to... every... single... post... with maximum vitriol turned up to 11. There are usually one or more rapidly pro-Trumper's who drank the red koolaid instead of the blue, who are just as fierce. The vast majority don't like the situation, but aren't rabid either way, and seek to approach the real issues sensibly... they are shouted out by "rabids" until they just tune out.

Ditto on the TV... most of the non-political people I know simply don't watch the news anymore. They've tuned out and are tired of it... they don't believe that Trump is a Russian puppet, nor do they believe that he is a very "nice" person. They are waiting to see what happens. All of them would prefer to have a job with insurance versus ObamaCare.

In other words, it's still "The economy, stupid" and if Trump delivers on the economy while keeping us safe and not mired in a distant war, he'll have 8 years. If he doesn't he won't.

QFT.

I have to admit that I haven't tuned into Fox News or any of the other networks in weeks. I mostly get news from social media these days. Twitter is probably one of the best aggregators of news. I look at what's trending and why it's trending, then search for the facts behind the story, considering how good is the reporting, and how well it's sourced. All traditional media has proven it is completely lost it's sense of what Journalism is. I heard a quote from Eric Wiennstein, paraphrasing,

Journalism sounds like a great idea. I wish we had it.

We do kinda. But it's self-serve.

 

[Dddrees]

I'm not trying to insult you. I'm just saying what reality looks like from here. I find Trump repulsive. In some ways I find him dangerous. His GOP acceptance speech was probably the most authoritarian I've ever heard personally. But I don't *hate* him just because I think mostly negative about him. Objectively, he's just a person who has negative and positive attributes which affect his ability to lead the nation.

I mean, you seem to act as if it would be a betrayal of your principles not to have it dialed to 11 for every thing Trump does. I just think that isn't realistic. it sounds more like you're motivated by vendetta than by the objective facts of Trump's poor character. I think you're ideologically or perhaps emotionally incapable of recognizing any positive trait Trump may have, regardless of the negative ones. That's just not being real, and I'm just being honest about that.

You know what, I've yet to see anything that he does in a positive way to outweigh all the negatives. His release of executive control over every simple decision that commanders make in the field is something I view as being positive. The VA bill they passed may have been positive although I don't have all the details, but if there aren't more resources it will most assuredly fall short. Now let's see, nope I can't remember anything other than these two. But heck, let me give him credit for those I'm not aware of.

Nope, no way those few things outweigh those things that I see as being such strong negatives.

 

[jamil]

You know what, I've yet to see anything that he does in a positive way to outweigh all the negatives. His release of executive control over every simple decision that commanders make in the field is something I view as being positive. The VA bill they passed may have been positive although I don't have all the details, but if there aren't more resources it will most assuredly fall short. Now let's see, nope I can't remember anything other than these two. But heck, let me give him credit for those I'm not aware of.

Nope, no way those few things outweigh those things that I see as being such strong negatives.

If it's logical not to admit positives because they don't outweigh all the negatives, why is it any less logical to for Trumpers not to admit all the negatives if the negatives don't outweigh the alternative. Which was Hillary. I think it's fair if you're keeping tally to let the positives be canceled out. But if you're honest you'll at least make the transaction.

I wasn't a fan of Obama at all but I'd give him his due on the occasions where he did something positive. But it seems you take it even beyond that. You seem as eager to cling to negative news about Trump without vetting it as Trumpers do with positive information. I just see no evidence to that would make me believe you're any more honest about Trump than the fiercely loyal Trumpers are. It's just that you're on opposite sides of extremes.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Got my picture today in front of the Reagan statue in the Rotunda at the US Capitol. VERY cool tour if you ever get a chance. We didn't have time to tour the chamber but we have passes to do so if we ever come back during this congress.

Saw the Supreme Court chamber where they used it 1810-1860. In this room government gave us an example of how they are not to be trusted by deciding against Dred Scott.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Walked on the north side of white house today and hung out with another 100 people trying to get pics. Then some totally ripped guy came running down the road probably sub 6-min pace and gave the one finger salute the whole time he was in view of the white house. Being a tough guy I yelled as loud as I could "Yeah, you keep running".

I'm really glad he followed my advice, for my sake

 

[hoosierdoc]

we walked past the Veterans Affairs building. I wanted to check it out but the line was too long...