The 2017 General Political discussion thread, Part 2!

[KLB]

Moot point because I don't think they actually want to repeal it. Trump maybe does, but the party doesn't.

It screwed up my insurance, so I'll be happy to be wrong, but the cynical side of me says I'm not.

Same here. My premiums went up a lot, my deductible went up, and my coverage went down.

 

[KLB]

You really think the Republicans are even capable of agreeing on the smaller points? Seems to me the Republicans are to diverse at this point to agree on anything. By anything, I mean not only the principles of how they want to address healthcare but things like tax reform and our infrastructure as well.

Probably not. The Democrats definitely have them beat these days when it comes to following the party line for votes.

 

[Dddrees]

Probably not. The Democrats definitely have them beat these days when it comes to following the party line for votes.

Think that actually reflects that the Republican contingency might actually be more diverse at least in their ideology?

 

[jamil]

So the GOP healthcare bill appears to be dying. So what's next when it comes to Healthcare? How does this one play out? Any idea who takes the blame when Obamacare dies? The Republicans who can't govern even though the are in charge of all three branches of government or the Democrats who gave away the entitlement to begin with?


More importantly will the Democrats and Republicans be forced to work together to come up with a plan. Could a feasible and workable plan actually be a result of all this crap?

I think Democrats are content to stand pat. If Republicans could actually pass something, anything capable of passing wouldn't accomplish anything meaningful. It would still be some form of a Government/Insurance/Provider trifecta of cronies. Dems can just stand back and cheer on its failure. If Republicans can't get anything passed the Dems can cheer on Obamacare's failure and blame Republicans inability to govern.

Jbombelli is right. But I'll say it in a less homogeneous way, "establishment" Republicans never really wanted to eliminate ACA. They just wanted to campaign on it to maintain and gain seats. It's almost like they were caught by surprise that they actually gained a majority, and the presidency. It's like, "oh ****! Now we have to actually lead!"

 

[Dddrees]

I think Democrats are content to stand pat. If Republicans could actually pass something, anything capable of passing wouldn't accomplish anything meaningful. It would still be some form of a Government/Insurance/Provider trifecta of cronies. Dems can just stand back and cheer on its failure. If Republicans can't get anything passed the Dems can cheer on Obamacare's failure and blame Republicans inability to govern.

Jbombelli is right. But I'll say it in a less homogeneous way, "establishment" Republicans never really wanted to eliminate ACA. They just wanted to campaign on it to maintain and gain seats. It's almost like they were caught by surprise that they actually gained a majority, and the presidency. It's like, "oh ****! Now we have to actually lead!"

You mean the dog that caught the car and now they don't know what to do.

Unfortunately with this one I think it's actually going to have an affect on a lot of people. Really screwed up with regards to where we find ourselves. I still say the only true fix is going to require both parties to pull their heads out of their A***s and work together.

 

[Dddrees]

I think Democrats are content to stand pat. If Republicans could actually pass something, anything capable of passing wouldn't accomplish anything meaningful. It would still be some form of a Government/Insurance/Provider trifecta of cronies. Dems can just stand back and cheer on its failure. If Republicans can't get anything passed the Dems can cheer on Obamacare's failure and blame Republicans inability to govern.

Jbombelli is right. But I'll say it in a less homogeneous way, "establishment" Republicans never really wanted to eliminate ACA. They just wanted to campaign on it to maintain and gain seats. It's almost like they were caught by surprise that they actually gained a majority, and the presidency. It's like, "oh ****! Now we have to actually lead!"

But more importantly how does this bode for the Republicans being able to get any major legislation passed. Do you really think they can get anything done with tax reform or infrastructure?

 

[jamil]

You mean the dog that caught the car and now they don't know what to do.

Unfortunately with this one I think it's actually going to have an affect on a lot of people. Really screwed up with regards to where we find ourselves. I still say the only true fix is going to require both parties to pull their heads out of their A***s and work together.

That's not possible. The two sides may as well be from different planets in differen galaxies.

But more importantly how does this bode for the Republicans being able to get any major legislation passed. Do you really think they can get anything done with tax reform or infrastructure?

They're probably not going to get much done until after midterms. If Repubs maintain or gain seats, they'll have the political calital to pressure the fickle Tuesday group into going along with substantial tax reform. If not, Repubs and Trump aren't going to accomplish much.

 

[Dddrees]

That's not possible. The two sides may as well be from different planets in differen galaxies.




They're probably not going to get much done until after midterms. If Repubs maintain or gain seats, they'll have the political calital to pressure the fickle Tuesday group into going along with substantial tax reform. If not, Repubs and Trump aren't going to accomplish much.

if they can't get anything done and Trump keeps being Trump do you really think Democrats aren't going to make some gains? After all Trumps numbers really do look like s*** right now.

 

[indiucky]

Haven't heard that term used in years.

Been awhile lol...

 

[Dddrees]

Well it does appear McConnell wants to move forward with repeal with a 2 year window to replace. Wonder how the insurance agencies will receive this, not to mention the American people?

 

[PaulF]

if they can't get anything done and Trump keeps being Trump do you really think Democrats aren't going to make some gains? After all Trumps numbers really do look like s*** right now.

It is a mistake to put too much faith in "the numbers". I made that mistake this past election, certainly, along with so many others.

Polls are just another type of propaganda in our current political climate.

Still, there is an argument to be made that Trump motivates democrats more than republicans, and if that case proves credible the next election could be disastrous for republicans. I'm not going to make a prediction this time, as my abilities as a prognosticator have proven themselves rather inadequate.

We'll see what happens in a little over a year...so much can happen in that time, who knows what will happen.

 

[Dddrees]

It is a mistake to put too much faith in "the numbers". I made that mistake this past election, certainly, along with so many others.

Polls are just another type of propaganda in our current political climate.

Still, there is an argument to be made that Trump motivates democrats more than republicans, and if that case proves credible the next election could be disastrous for republicans. I'm not going to make a prediction this time, as my abilities as a prognosticator have proven themselves rather inadequate.

We'll see what happens in a little over a year...so much can happen in that time, who knows what will happen.

Understand, but can you really continue to win at the ballot box even if you show your unable to pass any major legislation? Heck, in this case they cant even pass the most hyped of things they've been chanting for the last seven years.

Not only that but every recommendation they came up seemed like it was much worse than what they were trying to replace. Kinda looked like the keystone cops to me.

 

[indiucky]

'Mommy, Johnny did it first." Oh yes, this most certainly absolves Trump of being a morally corrupt sexual pervert. H*** you subscribe to this why should we even put sexual perverts on watch lists? It's morally acceptable after all, let's embrace it. You know, two wrongs always make a right.

The response on the right is no better than the left. There just your responses. However if you wish to really get it right then you need to denounce it when it's wrong no matter who does it. Clinton was wrong, but get this Trump is as well.

Young bull talking to old bull in a pasture where they thought they were in private..

"Look if you like her just grab her by the ***** and go in with it..." (I am paraphrasing here...)

Compared to a 50+ year old man who IS President of the United States sticking his cigar into a 20 year old EMPLOYEE's (you know what) after telling her to wax his boogie board...


This isn't a childlike "Mommy. Johnny did it first"....One is two guys talking like two women at a Bunco party when the menfolk are not around and the other is sexual harassment, sodomy, adultery, perjury, etc..while working for us....If any CEO of any corporation did that he would be in jail or broke...

It's called "apples and oranges".....

Man what puritans we have become.......

"Mommy the bad man told another man that if he thought that girl liked him to grab her by the *****...Is that like when you tell dad if he doesn't get the toilet fixed you are going to grab him by the ***** and drag him to Home Depot???? Because I am offended!!!!!!!!!"

(I hate to do it because it's kind of silly but I am going to insert an "LOL" at this juncture...)

If that kind of talk is what you consider makes someone a "morally corrupt sexual pervert" that should be put on a "watch list" I warn you to never listen in to women talking when they think men are not around...........Or watch "Orange is the New Black", or "Sex and The City".....Unless you have a fainting couch around...

 

[Dddrees]

Young bull talking to old bull in a pasture where they thought they were in private..

"Look if you like her just grab her by the ***** and go in with it..." (I am paraphrasing here...)

Compared to a 50+ year old man who IS President of the United States sticking his cigar into a 20 year old EMPLOYEE's after telling her to wax his boogie board...


This isn't a childlike "Mommy. Johnny did it first"....One is two guys talking like two women at a Bunco party when the menfolk are not around and the other is sexual harassment, sodomy, adultery, perjury, etc..while working for us....If any CEO of any corporation did that he would be in jail or broke...

Does this help you a little Johnny????

No, it really is that simple. If thats all you got when it comes to justifying someone's behavior by saying someone previous to them has done just as bad or worse it's still that response you expect from that little kid. If you can't recognize inappropriate or just simply wrong behavior and you wish to condone it or excuse it because someone else somewhere in history can also be found at fault well then you'll be able to excuse anything and anybody,. Wrong is just wrong and it's that simple and to over complicate it just excuses it, period. Did I ever say Trumps speech or what he said rose to the level of Clinton and what he did or at least what his testimony was where he perjured himself? No I did not. But that still doesn't mean what Trump said by any means was acceptable.

 

[Dddrees]

If you ask me Repeal before you have an alternative is irresponsible. The responsible thing to do is to work on Replacing it even if that means you have to work across the aisle. Repealing it first is a dangerous game where somehow hoping you can force the opposition party to do more of want you want them to do. H*** in the meantime I can see this causing nothing but chaos.

 

[indiucky]

If you can't recognize inappropriate or just simply wrong behavior and you wish to condone it or excuse it because someone else somewhere in history can also be found at fault we'll then you'll be able to excuse anything and anybody.

What??????

Let's try again....Two adults, male or female can have a conversation and use slang terms for genitalia in a private conversation...whether it's the girls at Bunco or a couple of guys in the gun shop...And because I think that is okay and falls under the shelter of a private conversation and just adults being adults that means I can "excuse it because someone else somewhere in history can also be found at fault ("will you" is what I think you meant to say)then you'll be able to excuse anything and anybody..."

Really???? That's your takeaway???? Quite a stretch.....

Maybe I grew up differently but rough talk and not being uptight about sex or language is just something we learned in the 70's.....

 

[Dddrees]

What??????

Let's try again....Two adults, male or female can have a conversation and use slang terms for genitalia in a private conversation...whether it's the girls at Bunco or a couple of guys in the gun shop...And because I think that is okay and falls under the shelter of a private conversation and just adults being adults that means I can "excuse it because someone else somewhere in history can also be found at fault ("will you" is what I think you meant to say)then you'll be able to excuse anything and anybody..."

Really???? That's your takeaway???? Quite a stretch.....

Maybe I grew up differently but rough talk and not being uptight about sex or language is just something we learned in the 70's.....

Sorry, but even when it comes to locker room talk I've never heard anyone come up with that one. Besides why didn't you start your debate with this instead of trying the "Mommy Johnny did it first" defense. Showing a picture of Clinton or anyone for that matter being just as wrong or worse doesn't help Trumps case. Seems as though this is the standard defense used for the most part nowadays.

At least this new attempt makes more sense in my opinion. Sorry I guess what he said just made me cringe a bit. I hadn't heard this ever being used before and I thought I had heard a good number of things. His doubling down on this issue didn't do him much good in my eyes either. He made a mistake, he would have been better served by not trying to minimize it or trying to excuse it in the first place. However this individual seems very comfortable being extremely offensive.

 

[Kutnupe14]

If you ask me Repeal before you have an alternative is irresponsible. The responsible thing to do is to work on Replacing it even if that means you have to work across the aisle. Repealing it first is a dangerous game where somehow hoping you can force the opposition party to do more of want you want them to do. H*** in the meantime I can see this causing nothing but chaos.

I would agree, if you intend to replace. However, ACA shouldn't be replaced. It should be gone. Now, does the ACA do a lot of good things? Yes it does, but the govt shouldn't compel people to hand over their money for the good of all. It sounds harsh, but that's the way it should be.

 

[Dddrees]

I would agree, if you intend to replace. However, ACA shouldn't be replaced. It should be gone. Now, does the ACA do a lot of good things? Yes it does, but the govt shouldn't compel people to hand over their money for the good of all. It sounds harsh, but that's the way it should be.

Unfortunately, you and those Republicans trying to pass this method aren't winning that argument. It's certainly not working with the majority of Republican Govenors. Now this would make more sense and have a better chance if healthcare were more affordable and included better coverage in the first place.

 

[indiucky]

I would agree, if you intend to replace. However, ACA shouldn't be replaced. It should be gone. Now, does the ACA do a lot of good things? Yes it does, but the govt shouldn't compel people to hand over their money for the good of all. It sounds harsh, but that's the way it should be.

Sir Kut the consistent.....(When I read this I heard it in Reagan's voice)....