The 2017 General Political discussion thread, Part 2!

[2A_Tom]

So do you wish to make it illegal? If so you willing to also pay more for these lazy people. Also are women who have been raped Lazy as well? Do they fall into that same category and what do you suggest they do? How about the cases where it's either a case of life or death for mother or child. How would you as a husband or father feel in this situation?

OK, Say I were to say to you abortion in the case of incest, rape or where the mother's life is at risk is OK.

Would you be willing to say that it is OK to make abortion for convience illegal?

 

[hoosierdoc]

"56% are black or hispanic," is a LONG way off from 75% black. And you can't extrapolate that rate as being constant since Roe V Wade (44 years ago). I sure you're clear

Just trying to get accurate data out there

 

[Dddrees]

I believe it I morally wrong, but I don't believe it is murder. I would try to convince someone not to do it, but I firmly believe it is their right.

Frankly I don't know that there is a difference in certain cases. However I would have a problem making moral judgements with those women who have been raped or where there is a choice when it comes to the life of the newborn or the mother. I just don't see this as being something I should be imposing on others. You just can't make people do what they don't want to do. The consequences of doing that generally don't end up being a good thing.

 

[Dddrees]

OK, Say I were to say to you abortion in the case of incest, rape or where the mother's life is at risk is OK.

Would you be willing to say that it is OK to make abortion for convience illegal?

No

BBecause here again your trying to make people do what they don't want to do. Are you willing to pay for it because you most certainly will pay for some of these. Do you really think the majority of these kids are going to have a happy productive life with parents that were forced to keep them? Hell some parents that decide to have kids don't do that very well. Force someone to do something and see how often that turns out well.

 

[printcraft]

Back and forth...... "an acceptable percentage"

Is that the argument here?

 

[Dddrees]

OK, Say I were to say to you abortion in the case of incest, rape or where the mother's life is at risk is OK.

Would you be willing to say that it is OK to make abortion for convience illegal?

Besides your just going to force this thing underground anyway. Women are just going to be forced to get an illegal abortion. It'll happen and these consequences aren't good either.

 

[Birds Away]

No

BBecause here again your trying to make people do what they don't want to do. Are you willing to pay for it because you most certainly will pay for some of these. Do you really think the majority of these kids are going to have a happy productive life with parents that were forced to keep them? Hell some parents that decide to have kids don't do that very well. Force someone to do something and see how often that turns out well.

Well, while I might agree that making abortion illegal is a difficult proposition, using the above argument wouldn't sway me in the least. The government forces people to do things against their will every single day. We've all become so accustomed to it that we don't usually give it much thought. But some of us feel the weight of that yoke.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Back and forth...... "an acceptable percentage"

Is that the argument here?

Well, their life was going to start out hard, so... they're better off this way...

since many states have poverty handouts that exceed the average household income, I don't see financial burden as a valid excuse. Not that I see anything as a valid excuse, but still.

 

[2A_Tom]

Let's tear down the Jefferson Memorial and Montecello.

Something we can agree on.

 

[Birds Away]

Let's tear down the Jefferson Memorial and Montecello.

Something we can agree on.

No, let's tear down Google. Break it up like they did Standard Oil.

 

[Dddrees]

Well, while I might agree that making abortion illegal is a difficult proposition, using the above argument wouldn't sway me in the least. The government forces people to do things against their will every single day. We've all become so accustomed to it that we don't usually give it much thought. But some of us feel the weight of that yoke.

I fail to see why you would want to use this as an argument especially when then outcome just results in making people have unwanted kids which more than likely not only cost us more more but more importantly lead to more social problems.

 

[Birds Away]

I fail to see why you would want to use this as an argument especially when then outcome just results in making people have unwanted kids which more than likely not only cost us more more but more importantly lead to more social problems.

If you will recall I said I don't want this as an outcome. I do not support making abortion illegal. I understand all of the ramifications of doing so. I'm just saying that as an argument, saying that people won't do what they don't want to do, is pretty weak.

 

[JettaKnight]

I would never consider Jetta a troll.

I was just trying to express the level of frustration with another member.

I really tried to have a conversation with him. No one has ever told me that I remind them of JOB.

I certainely don't have the thick skin of Trump.

When I am tried and purified I shall come forth as gold.

He's worse than that...He's Canadian... (Just kidding....I was just yanking Jetta's chain and used your post to do so..)

No one has ever told me I remind them of JOB either...Just Joe Bob Billy Ray....

Take off, ya hosers!


I don't follow this thread much (there's not enough about Trudeau to interest me ), but it seemed like someone was attempting to shut down their opponent by going nuclear and labeling the resident liberal a troll. He may be wrong, he may be dense, he may be frustrating, but I don't think his primary intention is to irritate and annoy.

 

[JettaKnight]

I fail to see why you would want to use this as an argument especially when then outcome just results in making people have unwanted kids which more than likely not only cost us more more but more importantly lead to more social problems.

Morality can't be defined in dollars and cents.

There are other ways to solve this social problem than pre-infacide.

 

[indiucky]

He may be wrong, he may be dense, he may be frustrating, but I don't think his primary intention is to irritate and annoy.

 

[Dddrees]

If you will recall I said I don't want this as an outcome. I do not support making abortion illegal. I understand all of the ramifications of doing so. I'm just saying that as an argument, saying that people won't do what they don't want to do, is pretty weak.

Understand, but it is what it is. So the choice remains and what do you do. For me the choice was easy I had three healthy boys and then choose to get fixed because long term consequences of a woman on the pill can be harmful to her health.

But given the choice of either making it legal or illegal I just see making it illegal as doing more harm than good. Those who make that choice to do so will just have to learn to live with their decision.

 

[hoosierdoc]

I fail to see why you would want to use this as an argument especially when then outcome just results in making people have unwanted kids which more than likely not only cost us more more but more importantly lead to more social problems.

Holy crap. You just justified the slaughter of a million lives a year by claiming it alleviates social problems?

Care to name the next social problem you want to fix by murdering people who have yet to commit a crime? I see murdering 1000000 babies as a social problem...

"unwanted kids" is a myth. Adoption lines are long.

 

[hoosierdoc]

And it's absurd to claim that since mom didn't want to have a baby when she was 7 weeks along she would treat the live birth with disdain or claim it an "unwanted kid"

that impugnes women and is a horrendous argument

 

[Dddrees]

Morality can't be defined in dollars and cents.


There are other ways to solve this social problem than pre-infacide.

Costs whether in dollars or cents or in social costs are real. Frankly if you are willing to pay the actual cost that is one thing. Really, really do you believe there are enough people willing to take on the responsibility of trying to take on the social responsibility as well? Have the Big Brothers and Big Sisters gotten to the point they have so many volunteers they can no longer use the overwhelming support that is racing to their door?

 

[Birds Away]

We should be able to agree on a few things but, as usual, both sides are completely entrenched in their positions. The left wants abortion on demand, anywhere, anytime and under any circumstances. The right wants no abortion, anywhere, anytime or under any circumstances. There is plenty of middle ground and reasonable people should be able to agree.

Late term abortions where a child is born alive and then killed by the physician are abhorrent, inhumane and should be condemned on all sides. But the vitriol surrounding this issue is so overwhelming that there are actually a lot of people that won't even discuss the possibility of doing away with this practice. That does not speak well for our humanity.