The 2017 General Political discussion thread, Part 2!

[SheepDog4Life]

SD, what does DOJ do to a company, not controlled by the Clintons or the Democrat party, that deletes information and destroys devices under subpeona?

BF, IANAL, but my reading of this stuff is that the first thing that prosecutors do is serve the company with a legal Notice to Preserve the evidence and that may either precede or accompany the subpoena. At that point, it is established as legal evidence in a criminal proceding, so if they fail to preserve it, or actively destroy it, there are repercussion like obstruction of justice, tampering with evidence, etc.

So, yeah, anyone else not named Clinton would go to prison for ordering Bleachbit on a subpoena'ed server and all of those on the conference call would likewise be indictable for conspiracy. And that's just the normal code... they could also be subject to Sarbannes-Oxley shredding and wiping penalties, which IIRC add up to 10 years.

 

[ghitch75]

2 journalists allegedly assaulted by Charlottesville counter-protesters | Fox News

 

[IndyDave1776]

2 journalists allegedly assaulted by Charlottesville counter-protesters | Fox News

Well, that's what they get for screwing up the narrative by filming the lefties who never do anything wrong while they were doing things wrong.

 

[Dddrees]

Create a website as a tool in committing a crime, and yes, you should expect the authorities to seize everything that comprises that website. This is not some rare thing that only happened here because the criminals were anti-Trump. In fact, apparently this is so common that the DoJ published a "how-to" in the November 2011 edition of the US Attorneys Bulletin.

See pg 35, "Compelling Online Providers to Produce Evidence Under ECPA". This is a standard investigation except that the all of the snowflakes melting are making a river.

https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/usao/legacy/2011/11/30/usab5906.pdf

I still strongly disagree. The website and it's creators intentions are one thing. Who stumbles on it and more importantly what they do on it is the issue. If they visit it it could be for many and various reasons. Just because you visit and even if you in fact post on it unless you do something criminal you should not be at risk for this wide net they cast.

 

[Dddrees]

James Murdoch of Fox Slams Trump's Response To Charlottesville.

21st Century Fox's James Murdoch slams Trump: 'There are no good Nazis' - Aug. 17, 2017

 

[IndyDave1776]

James Murdoch of Fox Slams Trump's Response To Charlottesville.

21st Century Fox's James Murdoch slams Trump: 'There are no good Nazis' - Aug. 17, 2017

Apparently that f**king moron missed the memo that there were in fact individuals and groups on the pro-Lee side there who do not fall under the Nazi/KKK/WN/WS umbrella.

 

[Dddrees]

Apparently that f**king moron missed the memo that there were in fact individuals and groups on the pro-Lee side there who do not fall under the Nazi/KKK/WN/WS umbrella.

I doubt very much that the side supporting Trumps actions are in the majority here.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I doubt very much that the side supporting Trumps actions are in the majority here.

Can you elaborate on this? The side supporting Trump's actions? Is that to say everyone who supports Trump or the Nazis, et alia?

Is 'here' in the situation in general, on INGO, where?

 

[Dddrees]

Can you elaborate on this? The side supporting Trump's actions? Is that to say everyone who supports Trump or the Nazis, et alia?

Is 'here' in the situation in general, on INGO, where?

No, that's not what I said. All I said was the supporters of what he said I very much doubt are in the majority. So it goes that I believe those who support what he said are in the minority, I didn't label anybody.

 

[Dddrees]

Can you elaborate on this? The side supporting Trump's actions? Is that to say everyone who supports Trump or the Nazis, et alia?

Is 'here' in the situation in general, on INGO, where?

The fact that the head of a Fox came out against Trump does nothing but to support my thinking. This is after all the biggest media outlet that typically agrees with most everything else that Trump does.

 

[IndyDave1776]

No, that's not what I said. All I said was the supporters of what he said I very much doubt are in the majority. So it goes that I believe those who support what he said are in the minority, I didn't label anybody.

OK, I completely misunderstood, even worse than I realized I was failing to understand, hence the request for clarification.

The fact that the head of a Fox came out against Trump does nothing but to support my thinking. This is after all the biggest media outlet that typically agrees with most everything else that Trump does.

I don't place much value on it. Both of Murdoch's sons are liberal enough to be Swedes.

 

[Dddrees]

OK, I completely misunderstood, even worse than I realized I was failing to understand, hence the request for clarification.



I don't place much value on it. Both of Murdoch's sons are liberal enough to be Swedes.

Well I had heard Fox was considering a different path not to long ago. However it really seems that there is a growing amount of criticism that he simply has not faced before and he's faced a good bit many times before, the fact that all the Military Chiefs of Staff felt it was necessary to speak out, The critics from the same Republicans that always come out against him is nothing new but I think we're hearing new voices this time, Wait until they get back in session and the news media converges on them.

Trump's really isolated himself on this one.

 

[Birds Away]

The fact that the head of a Fox came out against Trump does nothing but to support my thinking. This is after all the biggest media outlet that typically agrees with most everything else that Trump does.

Actually Fox is full of "never Trump" Republicans. Only about half on their actually support him.

 

[jamil]

James Murdoch of Fox Slams Trump's Response To Charlottesville.

21st Century Fox's James Murdoch slams Trump: 'There are no good Nazis' - Aug. 17, 2017

Then neither are there any good Marxists. Both sides were there. Both sides were doing violence. The man who drove into the crowd deserves extrea attention though. The same hate that fueled Nazis fueled Marxists. ANTIFA is just as capable of killing people as the Nazis. They both need denounced and rejected. Stop condoning one and not the other.

 

[Dddrees]

Senator Corker Trump Lacks "Stability" and "Competence" to Succeed.

Sen. Bob Corker Doubts Trump's 'Stability,' 'Competence' : NPR

 

[Dddrees]

Then neither are there any good Marxists. Both sides were there. Both sides were doing violence. The man who drove into the crowd deserves extrea attention though. The same hate that fueled Nazis fueled Marxists. ANTIFA is just as capable of killing people as the Nazis. They both need denounced and rejected. Stop condoning one and not the other.

As I said elsewhere. I doubt there were any "Good People" present at the torch rally the night before yelling "Jews Will Not Replace Us". I do however find it believable there were some "Good People" present the next day protesting the protesters.

I think your argument may win the day with some, but it's not winning the day with most. Trump's just further isolating himself with arguements such as this. It works with his base but not the majority. Unfortunately the electorate consist of many more than just his base. It consist of his base, Republicans, and the undecideds. Who do you think he losses first? Who do you think actually determine an election? I know of no elections that have ever been determined by just the base or just one party. I do however know of many where the swing voter or undecided had they gone either way would determine the election.

When All of the Chief of Staff s of the Military find it necessary to respond you have a very unique stimulation indeed. They weren't responding in kind by the way.

Trumps staff being caught off guard is nothing new, but being caught off guard might once again indicate they too know what he did wasn't necessarily the best thing to do,

Foriegn leaders responding here again puts Trump and his thoughts in the minority.

Republicans responding place him in the minority. Maybe not here but the minority indeed.

I'm fairly certain there will be many more. This is a loser for Trump with exception of just his base and some of his other supporters. It's a loser.

 

[jamil]

Senator Corker Trump Lacks "Stability" and "Competence" to Succeed.

Sen. Bob Corker Doubts Trump's 'Stability,' 'Competence' : NPR

That's true to some extent. Given the situation as it is, it would be better for the country if the left stopped the hyperbole campaign which makes stability and competence even more important. But Dems are willing to scorch the earth just to make sure Trump fails.

 

[jamil]

As I said elsewhere. I doubt there were any "Good People" present at the torch rally the night before yelling "Jews Will Not Replace Us". I do however find it believable there were some "Good People" present the next day protesting the protesters.

I think your argument may win the day with some, but it's not winning the day with most. Trump's just further isolating himself with arguements such as this. It works with his base but not the majority. Unfortunately the electorate consist of many more than just his base. It consist of his base, Republicans, and the undecideds. Who do you think he losses first? Who do you think actually determine an election? I know of no elections that have ever been determined by just the base or just one party. I do however know of many where the swing voter or undecided had they gone either way would determine the election.

When All of the Chief of Staff s of the Military find it necessary to respond you have a very unique stimulation indeed. They weren't responding in kind by the way.

Trumps staff being caught off guard is nothing new, but being caught off guard might once again indicate they too know what he did wasn't necessarily the best thing to do,

Foriegn leaders responding here again puts Trump and his thoughts in the minority.

Republicans responding place him in the minority. Maybe not here but the minority indeed.

I'm fairly certain there will be many more. This is a loser for Trump with exception of just his base and some of his other supporters. It's a loser.

My argument wins with intellectually honest people. I agree that's not most people.

 

[Dddrees]

That's true to some extent. Given the situation as it is, it would be better for the country if the left stopped the hyperbole campaign which makes stability and competence even more important. But Dems are willing to scorch the earth just to make sure Trump fails.

But Corker is a Republican and he said the words and not the Democrats. So would it be better if I had not placed them in parentheses? It doesn't change the fact that he said it. These are not typically the words we use to discuss other Presidents especially some one of the same party.

 

[Dddrees]

My argument wins with intellectually honest people. I agree that's not most people.

So I guess your saying anyone who disagrees with you isn't intellectually honest. Sir you have an opinion and that is all. But that doesn't make it a fact nor does it that doesn't mean I nor these other people like our Military Leaders intellectually dishonest.