The 2017 General Political discussion thread, Part 2!

[KLB]

It is a big net, but there are potentially a large number of fish. Recall that over 200 were arrested on inauguration day, so there were many more who rioted and were not arrested.

And, a little more background... soon after the inauguration, the DoJ subpoenaed the same information and was rebuffed. Presumably, some of the 200+ found out they were facing real prison time and squealed that they received their "marching orders" via the website, hence the search warrant this time as the DoJ has developed probable cause satisfying a judge. (if someone has a link to the PC affidavit, please post)

Probably the most relevant information would be emails and lists of people who "signed up" to "man" the various blockades throughout DC on inauguration day. If you've visited the site (I have) you've little to worry about the FBI looking at your IP address... if you "signed up" to "man" one of the blockades where violence and destruction occurred, you might expect an interview.

Asking for all of the IPs that have visited the site is ridiculous. If they want to track down specific users, go for it. Then can go through the site and find those that they think did something wrong.

This is no more OK than any other government program where I shouldn't be worried if I didn't do anything wrong.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Asking for all of the IPs that have visited the site is ridiculous. If they want to track down specific users, go for it. Then can go through the site and find those that they think did something wrong.

This is no more OK than any other government program where I shouldn't be worried if I didn't do anything wrong.

Just to be clear, the DoJ did not request all of the IP addresses of anyone who visited the site. Here is the search warrant:

https://www.dreamhost.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/DH-Search-Warrant.pdf

They did request the "HTTP Request logs" which does contain the IP information of people active on the site. For example, if someone posted on the site "Let's break windows and burn cars.", you would need the HTTP Request Log in order to identify that individual. It is the key that traces actions on the site back to an individual, or at least their account on an ISP. (or, if they are even minimally savvy, the IP anonomizer they used )

 

[Dddrees]

Just to be clear, the DoJ did not request all of the IP addresses of anyone who visited the site. Here is the search warrant:

https://www.dreamhost.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/DH-Search-Warrant.pdf

They did request the "HTTP Request logs" which does contain the IP information of people active on the site. For example, if someone posted on the site "Let's break windows and burn cars.", you would need the HTTP Request Log in order to identify that individual. It is the key that traces actions on the site back to an individual, or at least their account on an ISP. (or, if they are even minimally savvy, the IP anonomizer they used )

Yes but that still means they are casting a wide net for anyone who simply posts and just because you post does not mean you did anything wrong. Many posts often don't indicate any wrong doing.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Yes but that still means they are casting a wide net for anyone who simply posts and just because you post does not mean you did anything wrong. Many posts often don't indicate any wrong doing.

You've got it exactly backwards... when someone posts or posted something indicating criminal intent on the site, the HTTP Request Log is needed to identify their IP address, not the other way around.

I've done this literally hundreds of times during customer disputes... without the HTTP Request Log, it's meaningless.

ETA: The server/server farm is hosted in Portland, WA and was not a ToR site. The guv'ment knows every IP that has visited that site.

 

[Birds Away]

Although I would dearly love to see these Antifa thugs get the punishment they so richly deserve, I think this is probably too broad.

 

[Dddrees]

You've got it exactly backwards... when someone posts or posted something indicating criminal intent on the site, the HTTP Request Log is needed to identify their IP address, not the other way around.

I've done this literally hundreds of times during customer disputes... without the HTTP Request Log, it's meaningless.

ETA: The server/server farm is hosted in Portland, WA and was not a ToR site. The guv'ment knows every IP that has visited that site.

Not sure if your not getting my meaning or I'm not properly understanding what your saying. But I'm trying to say that it's extremely possible even if someone posted it doesn't mean they had criminal intent or meant to do harm. It's extremely possible it was a very benign post no matter what the site was. If that's the case and I imagine a good portion maybe the DOJ shouldn't be able to get their IP Adresses.

 

[Dddrees]

Trump discontinues Manufacturing Council.



https://mobile.twitter.com/realDona...5?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

 

[IndyDave1776]

Or they find Trump's views distasteful.

They joined up to have direct access to a president whose views were parallel with their own, and with their economic interests only to quit in a huff because the president refused to say that WN/WS/KKK thugs are the ultimate evil in the universe, but BLM/BAMN/Antifa thugs are f***ing saints, and you really buy what you just said?

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Although I would dearly love to see these Antifa thugs get the punishment they so richly deserve, I think this is probably too broad.

Everything requested in the search warrant looks pretty much "boilerplate" for what I would expect the authorities to request on a website allegedly used for criminal activities. I doubt this is the first time this issue has been raised, and decided, in court.

 

[Birds Away]

Everything requested in the search warrant looks pretty much "boilerplate" for what I would expect the authorities to request on a website allegedly used for criminal activities. I doubt this is the first time this issue has been raised, and decided, in court.

Well, I made the mistake of believing what I had read about it. I should know better.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Well, I made the mistake of believing what I had read about it. I should know better.

You made a mistake which is part of the human condition. Most generally, people tend to measure others by the image in the mirror. You are an honest and honorable man which leaves you with a tendency to assume others to be similar by default until demonstrated otherwise, especially if you don't approach with strict scrutiny from the beginning which generally requires some stimulus to do so.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Well, I made the mistake of believing what I had read about it. I should know better.

It is a technology thing, so it's easy for the news media to mislead or even be mislead themselves by the tech privacy types.

It is being reported as the DoJ demanded the IP addresses of everyone who visited the site. That is not an accurate description of what they requested... they requested the file that maps IP addresses to "who did what" on the site. For every law enforcement action ever taken against someone doing something illegal online, an HTTP Request Log or similar file was examined by the authorities.

Note that if you had all of the HTTP Request Logs since a site first started (typically a new log starts at midnight each day) and ran a program to "extract" all of the IP addresses in that file, and then removed all of the duplicates, then you would have a list of all of the IP addresses to access that site... but that list (without the corresponding HTTP Request logs) would be meaningless as far as who did what. The DoJ did NOT request this.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Oh, and some folks act like knowing your IP address automatically means knowing your identity. That is patently false.

For 99.9% of us, the IP address would only indicate which service provider you are using for the internet. The DoJ would have to contact Time Warner, Charter, etc with the IP address AND the date and time it was used in order for them to look up which of their customers was using that IP at that time. Even for dedicated IP address users, though the look up would be easier, the internet service provider would have to look up the identity of the account holder.

This is a huge red herring.

 

[2A_Tom]

This is a huge red herring.

Currently the media's favorite dish.

 

[jamil]

It is a big net, but there are potentially a large number of fish. Recall that over 200 were arrested on inauguration day, so there were many more who rioted and were not arrested.

And, a little more background... soon after the inauguration, the DoJ subpoenaed the same information and was rebuffed. Presumably, some of the 200+ found out they were facing real prison time and squealed that they received their "marching orders" via the website, hence the search warrant this time as the DoJ has developed probable cause satisfying a judge. (if someone has a link to the PC affidavit, please post)

Probably the most relevant information would be emails and lists of people who "signed up" to "man" the various blockades throughout DC on inauguration day. If you've visited the site (I have) you've little to worry about the FBI looking at your IP address... if you "signed up" to "man" one of the blockades where violence and destruction occurred, you might expect an interview.

If they can get a warrant for it, I don't see a problem with it.

 

[ghitch75]

Trump discontinues Manufacturing Council.



https://mobile.twitter.com/realDona...5?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

 

[jamil]

Well, everyone quit. They had to disavow Trump before the mob disavows them, since Trump didn't disavow Nazis to their satisfaction, possibly because he didn't realize his 2016 disavowment of Nazis expired.

 

[Dddrees]

So he discontinues his two councils after they all jump ship.

So since Trump has now alienated all the real and true deal makers let's see what this does to bring jobs back and Make America Great.

So all of the Military Chiefs Of Staff believe it necessary to come out and denounce racism and hate.

Military Joint Chiefs Denounce Charlottesville Racism - NBC News

So a good number of Republicans come out and do the same.

So I now call Trump the Great Blunderbuss.

 

[Kutnupe14]

They joined up to have direct access to a president whose views were parallel with their own, and with their economic interests only to quit in a huff because the president refused to say that WN/WS/KKK thugs are the ultimate evil in the universe, but BLM/BAMN/Antifa thugs are f***ing saints, and you really buy what you just said?

That's apparently not true. They said why they left, just because it doesn't fit into what you believe don't make their reasonings untrue.

 

[Kutnupe14]

It is a technology thing, so it's easy for the news media to mislead or even be mislead themselves by the tech privacy types.

It is being reported as the DoJ demanded the IP addresses of everyone who visited the site. That is not an accurate description of what they requested... they requested the file that maps IP addresses to "who did what" on the site. For every law enforcement action ever taken against someone doing something illegal online, an HTTP Request Log or similar file was examined by the authorities.

Note that if you had all of the HTTP Request Logs since a site first started (typically a new log starts at midnight each day) and ran a program to "extract" all of the IP addresses in that file, and then removed all of the duplicates, then you would have a list of all of the IP addresses to access that site... but that list (without the corresponding HTTP Request logs) would be meaningless as far as who did what. The DoJ did NOT request this.

How about you read the warrant, and tell me if you still believe what you wrote above.

https://www.dreamhost.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/DH-Search-Warrant.pdf