The 2016 General Election Thread

[Jludo]

A vibe...Hard to quantify but I trust it....

I know you research things so I know you know gay couples search out openly Christian Bakeries to ask for their cup cakes at....Not so much Muslim bakeries....They are show boats looking for a chance to whine and play victim....I love freedom and that kind of Fascist picking and choosing to find a way to be offended goes against my Libertarian beliefs...

I agree that those who go out to pick a fight are just as in the wrong. Part of my view that this is/ should be a complete non issue and should hold very little if any weight on how someone votes.

 

[printcraft]

...... gay cupcakes.

Sounds sorta like a slur.......

 

[Jludo]

I probably don't want to open this door, but just where do you think morality comes from?

And just what about morality is at odds with Christianity?

Historically the Christian church has embraced things we today consider immoral, I'm sure in a hundred years our morality as a culture will have shifted and Christian teachings will have morphed with them.

Just look at the old testament to see how morals change over time.

 

[Jludo]

You got a point jludo but one should not conflate all the folks that call themselves Christians with the concepts laid down by Christianity ....You can make a case that many Christians have been at odds with morality but to make the case that Christianity itself is at odds with morality is a fight that Hitchens, Harris, and Dawkins would not even attempt to make....It's just not accurate...

If the interpretation of biblical text has always been changing then how do we know the one we've landed on is correct. You're right that some abstract perfect Christianity may be perfectly aligned with some perfect morality but Im not sure we've been lucky enough to nail it in 2016.

 

[JettaKnight]

Historically the Christian church has embraced things we today consider immoral, I'm sure in a hundred years our morality as a culture will have shifted and Christian teachings will have morphed with them.

Just look at the old testament to see how morals change over time.

You have me confused, you say the Christian Church, then point at the OT. And no, please don't patronize me and try to explain Christianity to me.


And as to my other question, can I infer that morality is defined by society and open to change?

 

[Jludo]

You have me confused, you say the Christian Church, then point at the OT. And no, please don't patronize me and try to explain Christianity to me.


And as to my other question, can I infer that morality is defined by society and open to change?

I'm saying morality is ever shifting and Christian morals have as well. I'm saying they shift in a sort of unison but that we shouldn't pretend Christianity has historically had morality down pat.

As for the old testament, were gods people behaving immoraly back then or has God's morality shifted with the ages?

 

[indiucky]

If the interpretation of biblical text has always been changing then how do we know the one we've landed on is correct. You're right that some abstract perfect Christianity may be perfectly aligned with some perfect morality but Im not sure we've been lucky enough to nail it in 2016.

I believe the words mean what they say...I also believe that human beings will always be human beings and will twist things up..I know that in the first century AD roughly 5% of the population (if that many) knew how to read...I look at the New Testament as a collection of 1st century AD biographies, letters, etc...That were put into book form in the 3rd century...

I know until the 16th century translations of this book into the common language was a crime punishable by death...I know that after the book became available to the common man we saw a rise in freedom and an age of reason that had never been seen in history up until that point...I know that everyone from crooked Popes to slave holders cherry picked what words they needed out of that book to justify very un Christian behavior......

IMHO, with the exception of a few translations, the King James version is a very accurate translation of the original Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew texts...Christopher Hitchens believes the King James Bible and the folks who did the translations were, along with the founding fathers here in America were the two times in History where the smartest men in existence at that time were in the same room together with a common cause...(See "When the King saved God...The story of the King James Bible" by Christopher Hitchens...)

Here is a link....

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2011/05/hitchens-201105

One interesting point is "You are the rock upon which I will build my Church" actually reads "You are the rock upon which I will build my congregation"...King James lined out "congregation" and replaced it with "Church" and in his own hand wrote this phrase, "No Church...No King..." and everyone kind of said okay...the point he was trying to make, of course, is that in order for him to allow this translation, he needed some authority lol.....

 

[JettaKnight]

I'm saying morality is ever shifting and Christian morals have as well. I'm saying they shift in a sort of unison but that we shouldn't pretend Christianity has historically had morality down pat.

Let's terms straight, Christians are "Christ followers" - i.e. existing Anno Domini.

As for the old testament, were God's people behaving immorally back then or has God's morality shifted with the ages?

If we look to the second half of the ten commandments, no morality hasn't changed. Ceremonial and purity laws have changed, but not the underlying morality. Murder was and still is wrong (note, murder =/= killing). Adultery was and is still wrong. Etc., etc.

 

[indiucky]

As for the old testament, were God's people behaving immoraly back then or has God's morality shifted with the ages?

Yes, they were behaving badly, immorally, etc.......And remember, they were not "God's chosen people"....They were people "chosen to serve God"..A difference, subtle, but a difference for certain.....

 

[nate77]

Sounds sorta like a slur.......

Good try, but this thread is going down in flames.

 

[Thor]

Good try, but this thread is going down in flames.

This thread is not even on the same garment anymore. It is threadbare.

 

[foszoe]

I think no matter one's Faith or lack of thereof that a couple of these rules are something we can all agree on....

If we are honest with ourselves, Christians dont even agree on how it interpret those.

 

[foszoe]

I'm saying morality is ever shifting and Christian morals have as well. I'm saying they shift in a sort of unison but that we shouldn't pretend Christianity has historically had morality down pat.

As for the old testament, were gods people behaving immoraly back then or has God's morality shifted with the ages?

When one learns Calculus, one must first know what number is and how to add, subtract. Gods morality has not changed, mans capabilities had to grow.

 

[foszoe]

I believe the words mean what they say...

One interesting point is "You are the rock upon which I will build my Church" actually reads "You are the rock upon which I will build my congregation"...King James lined out "congregation" and replaced it with "Church" and in his own hand wrote this phrase, "No Church...No King..." and everyone kind of said okay...the point he was trying to make, of course, is that in order for him to allow this translation, he needed some authority lol.....

Well, this is a case where the King was correct to make the change and the translators got it wrong.

Since the KJV is a translation, we can agree that whatever was originally written was not in English but in Greek and to translate ecclesia as congregation is wrong. It literally means called out. Translating it as congregation show a clear Protestant bias which one would expect in 17th century England.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

McMullin is now on the ballot in Colorado, Iowa, Utah, Minnesota, and Louisiana.

 

[Jludo]

McMullin is now on the ballot in Colorado, Iowa, Utah, Minnesota, and Louisiana.

So is his plan really just to be sure Trump doesn't win? People call Johnson a spoiler but he can at least mathematically win.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Also, you buried the lede: the 1 D tossup is Harry Reid. For as lovely as it would be to get rid of him, I don't see it happening.

Richard Lugar assures you that such a thing CAN happen.

 

[bwframe]

It's not reported much in the news, but does anyone else notice after President Trump make a policy statement, Hiillary makes one to answer a few days later?

As Donald Trump Tours Flood-Ravaged Louisiana, White House Says Obama Is Going, Too : NPR

[video=youtube;O6qYuUGK77o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6qYuUGK77o[/video]
-----------------------------------
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Reid is retiring isn't he?

Harry Reid's Retiring? Enter Piles Of Dark Money

 

[jamil]

Providence has given our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as privilege and interest of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers. - William Penn


Governments, like clocks, go from the motion men give them; and as governments are made and moved by men, so by them they are ruined too. Wherefore governments rather depend upon men than men upon governments. Let men be good and the government cannot be bad…But if men be bad, let the government be never so good, they will endeavor to warp and spoil it to their turn…[T]hough good laws do well, good men do better; for good laws may want [lack] good men and be abolished or invaded by ill men; but good men will never want good laws nor suffer [allow] ill ones. - Edward Johnson


Nothing is more essential to the establishment of manners in a State than that all persons employed in places of power and trust be men of unexceptionable character. The public cannot be too curious concerning the character of public men… - John Jay


When you become entitled to exercise the right of voting for public officers, let it be impressed on your mind that God commands you to choose for rulers, “just men who will rule in the fear of God.” The preservation of government depends on the faithful discharge of this duty; if the citizens neglect their duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted; laws will be made, not for the public good so much as for selfish or local purposes; corrupt or incompetent men will be appointed to execute the laws; the public revenues will be squandered on unworthy men; and the rights of the citizens will be violated or disregarded. If a republican government fails to secure public prosperity and happiness, it must be because the citizens neglect the divine commands, and elect bad men to make and administer the laws. - Samual Adams (emphasis added)


When a citizen gives his suffrage to a man of known immorality he abuses his trust; he sacrifices not only his own interest, but that of his neighbor, he betrays the interest of his country. - John Witherspoon


When the righteous rule, the people rejoice; when the wicked rule, the people groan. - Noah Webster




My worry Nate, is that your pursuit of prosperity will lead us to poverty (in manifold meanings).

Those are the words of men. Agreeable words as they are, when we think about human nature and see it put into practice, when have those words ever produced a moral government? I think it's a rather better idea to recognize human's propensity for corruption and make the government too week for corruption to harm people.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

How did he spend 18m without buying a single ad?


FEC snapshot of July:

CLINTON:

Raised: $52.3m
Spent: $38.2m
Cash on hand: $58.5m

TRUMP:

Raised: $36.7m
Spent: $18.4m
Cash on hand: $38.4m