That didn't last long. ABC Cancels Roseanne after tweet about Obama aid.

[Dead Duck]

I feel you. I honestly think you are a good person, but I don't you fully grasp the history of this particular "thing." That's why I asked, if Roseanne had called Jarrett, a "coon," would you have found that on an equal footing with "monkey/ape." I'm hoping that reference opens your eyes a bit.

Coon would be as confusing a term as any other....TO ME.... because I don't see why anyone would call a white chick a color racist slang. She looks white to me and that's why I completely didn't understand any of this. She doesn't look white to you? I did find that her parents are black? OK. Still, the term just doesn't work. To try to be racist to someone and to offend them, I would think that the names you call them should actually match the people somehow. Like someone calling me a color slang, I'd be like - What? Didn't work, try again.

Hey, I lived in SoCal for too long. I know racism. I fought against it all my life. L.A. and Orange County has it's fill of gangs. We had it growing up and it's still out there. Nothing new to me. And I have dated more girls of the rainbow that I can count. That's also one benefit of growing up in a cram packed overpopulated place. There's always some kind of party, somewhere, at anytime. And after hours, always end up at the beach bonfires. Oh Ya.

And no - I'm not a "race" detective. Not an expert in all the shades of color but do ask when I know someone or if the conversation comes up. Other than that, it just doesn't matter to me. My friend growing up were all different colors.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Coon would be as confusing a term as any other....TO ME.... because I don't see why anyone would call a white chick a color racist slang. She looks white to me and that's why I completely didn't understand any of this. She doesn't look white to you? I did find that her parents are black? OK. Still, the term just doesn't work. To try to be racist to someone and to offend them, I would think that the names you call them should actually match the people somehow. Like someone calling me a color slang, I'd be like - What? Didn't work, try again.

Hey, I lived in SoCal for too long. I know racism. I fought against it all my life. L.A. and Orange County has it's fill of gangs. We had it growing up and it's still out there. Nothing new to me. And I have dated more girls of the rainbow that I can count. That's also one benefit of growing up in a cram packed overpopulated place. There's always some kind of party, somewhere, at anytime. And after hours, always end up at the beach bonfires. Oh Ya.

And no - I'm not a "race" detective. Not an expert in all the shades of color but do ask when I know someone or if the conversation comes up. Other than that, it just doesn't matter to me. My friend growing up were all different colors.

What is your position, then?

Do you imply that Roseanne didn't know of VJ's black history as to think the "ape/monkey" angle was racist?

Honestly, help me out here. I'm trying to figure out how the hell people can look at the tweet and see it differently.

Was the tweet racist, or not? Why in the hell else would she specifically mention a monkey/ape movie series?

 

[BugI02]

DD, people that can pass are often most upset by the concept. They don't feel they should have to

 

[Kutnupe14]

Coon would be as confusing a term as any other....TO ME.... because I don't see why anyone would call a white chick a color racist slang. She looks white to me and that's why I completely didn't understand any of this. She doesn't look white to you? I did find that her parents are black? OK. Still, the term just doesn't work. To try to be racist to someone and to offend them, I would think that the names you call them should actually match the people somehow. Like someone calling me a color slang, I'd be like - What? Didn't work, try again.

Hey, I lived in SoCal for too long. I know racism. I fought against it all my life. L.A. and Orange County has it's fill of gangs. We had it growing up and it's still out there. Nothing new to me. And I have dated more girls of the rainbow that I can count. That's also one benefit of growing up in a cram packed overpopulated place. There's always some kind of party, somewhere, at anytime. And after hours, always end up at the beach bonfires. Oh Ya.

And no - I'm not a "race" detective. Not an expert in all the shades of color but do ask when I know someone or if the conversation comes up. Other than that, it just doesn't matter to me. My friend growing up were all different colors.

Not at all. She is obviously non-white. I would have immediately assumed her to be black or hispanic.... but I have a better history judging that kind of thing. Maybe it's because you're from the West Coast that this is unfamiliar to you. In the South, you see ALL kinds of shades of blackness, and half a million slurs for black, white, asian, or anything you can think of.

 

[churchmouse]

 

[Kutnupe14]

Bully!

 

[churchmouse]

Bully!

 

[BugI02]

It has been surprisingly calm and respectful.

 

[jamil]

Nope, they're all right here, in plain view, in this thread. No less than 5 people now seeking excuses for the tweet Roseanne made... trying to lighten it... make it not racist... feign ignorance.

All right here. Each one as embarrassing as the one before it.

Well. At what point does it become disavowal-signaling? Gosh I hate what this world has become.

Something Doc said earlier makes me think, if someone really doesn't have much history around racists, maybe it's hard to recognize. It's like the one-race scenario I mentioned. Maybe if that's most of your experience, then all that's happening now will be interpreted differently.

When I was young, we lived just outside of town, it was rural, and pretty white. The projects were near the edge of city limits. My elementary school district was the same district as the projects. In the school, I was a minority. Many black teachers. Black principle. More black students than white, but not a lot more. Anyway, point is, you kinda learn what's acceptable and what's not.

Now. I think about my son and he has almost zero experience being around black people. We live in the country. There are no black people who live anywhere close to us. I've always taught him that race is nothing but slight variances in DNA, which is consistent with what he learned in school. But I sometimes worry that not having experienced the cultural differences, will he accidentally say something stupid? Will people think he's a racist, especially as eager as people are these days to want to think it?

I think it's fine to give people the benefit of doubt when there's a reasonable possibility of doubt. I just don't want the world to be a place where we have to signal our disavowal at the slightest hint of racism, or that we have to expect racism to be the default, until proven virtuous enough. I wish we were at a place where we could just assume we're all basically not complete racist *******s. I think to think someone's a racist *******, they should have to sort of prove it beyond just saying some stuff that if you think about it, could mean something different in a different context.

I think Roseanne did a sufficient job of proving it. But I don't think we all have to line up at the alter of disavowal to signal our virtue on that either. I think for most of us we should be able to assume that the person you're talking to isn't a racist. And if they are, at least in my experience, it's not hard to tell. They're pretty open about it.

 

[Dead Duck]

Here's the thing. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that everyone is white. There are no other races. There are just humans. And someone refers to someone as a Monkey. In that context, obviously, there's no racial connotation at all; the reference would likely refer to some physical characteristic, like maybe quick, nimble, or maybe even as an insult, like someone being behind in evolution, or whatever. So in that context there are any number of uses for that which don't have anything to do with race.

But there is a long standing context in which there is a racial connotation. You can read earlier in the thread where BBI explained what that is. You look at Roseanne's tweet, and there's just no reasonable explanation for it. I agree that there is a burgeoning offense industry where people are just waiting to be offended, and certainly they came out today. But, people can go to far. Roseanne did.

That slur implies that blacks are less than human. Maybe in your own experience it's like the fictitious one I described above where you really don't see a context in which the monkey reference can be viewed as racist. But the things she put together makes it pretty obvious.

No other races in the world but one would be BORING!

I hate this Barr person. She is obnoxious on purpose and she thinks it's funny. She was never funny to me. I don't watch her. (or TV) I also don't dive into social media like most people so if she has been racist in the past, I wouldn't know about it. Still, if she knew this other lady and her terminology worked for her as being racist then she won and did what she wanted. Are people purposely coloring that lady's picture to be lighter or something? I have never seen her before this thread so I don't know her background.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

We're all friends here. Buddies, hombres, acquaintances, allies, associates, partners, companions, comrades, consorts, pals, chums, cohorts, brothers/sisters, fellows, peers, sports, colleagues....

 

[jamil]

It has been surprisingly calm and respectful.

He's just wearing the overcoat because he split his space pants.

 

[jamil]

Not at all. She is obviously non-white. I would have immediately assumed her to be black or hispanic.... but I have a better history judging that kind of thing. Maybe it's because you're from the West Coast that this is unfamiliar to you. In the South, you see ALL kinds of shades of blackness, and half a million slurs for black, white, asian, or anything you can think of.

I dunno. When I first saw her I thought she was possibly Asian?

 

[Dead Duck]

Trust me, we they call me a honky you'll be the first to know.
It's so hurtful.

 

[BigRed]

I have never seen her before this thread so I don't know her background.

She's a despicable piece of socialist trash from the Chicago machine.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Trust me, we they call me a honky you'll be the first to know.
It's so hurtful.

Good thought experiment!

Surely you can see the difference here:

I can call Jamil a cracker/honkey/yank/hillbilly/redneck/hick/bumpkin/whitey... and no one cares. I won't be banned.

But the second I call "hypothetical black member" a monkey/ape/******/boogie/colored/coon/crow/golliwogg/jigaboo.... I won't press my luck here with the more harsh names. Do you think those would fly?

Maybe it seems inequal, and perhaps there's an argument for that.... but one is certainly considered more harsh than the other in modern society.

Roseanne didn't call a white person a cracker. She called a black person a monkey. These things are not equal.

 

[churchmouse]

We're all friends here. Buddies, hombres, acquaintances, allies, associates, partners, companions, comrades, consorts, pals, chums, cohorts, brothers/sisters, fellows, peers, sports, colleagues....

Oh I am cool with all of this. Good discussion just popping in.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Good thought experiment!

Surely you can see the difference here:

I can call Jamil a cracker/honkey/yank/hillbilly/redneck/hick/bumpkin/whitey... and no one cares. I won't be banned.

But the second I call "hypothetical black member" a monkey/ape/******/boogie/colored/coon/crow/golliwogg/jigaboo.... I won't press my luck here with the more harsh names. Do you think those would fly?

Maybe it seems inequal, and perhaps there's an argument for that.... but one is certainly considered more harsh than the other in modern society.

Roseanne didn't call a white person a cracker. She called a black person a monkey. These things are not equal.

It happens ALL the time on here. I ran a test case just the other day, when I used the word "darkie," and sure enough, someone was offended. If I used slurs commonly associated with my race, people would lose their $@%. Can you imagine if I said "Yep, it's the N*****s fault." CM would be working overtime, fending off the reports, and people calling for me to be banned. So, honestly who is the less equal in that regard?

 

[jamil]

It happens ALL the time on here. I ran a test case just the other day, when I used the word "darkie," and sure enough, someone was offended. If I used slurs commonly associated with my race, people would lose their $@%. Can you imagine if I said "Yep, it's the N*****s fault." CM would be working overtime, fending off the reports, and people calling for me to be banned. So, honestly who is the less equal in that regard?

Yeah, but for the darkie comment, no one was saying that. The offense was that you seemed to be accusing people of things not said.

 

[Dead Duck]

Good thought experiment!

Surely you can see the difference here:

I can call Jamil a cracker/honkey/yank/hillbilly/redneck/hick/bumpkin/whitey... and no one cares. I won't be banned.

But the second I call "hypothetical black member" a monkey/ape/******/boogie/colored/coon/crow/golliwogg/jigaboo.... I won't press my luck here with the more harsh names. Do you think those would fly?

Maybe it seems inequal, and perhaps there's an argument for that.... but one is certainly considered more harsh than the other in modern society.

Roseanne didn't call a white person a cracker. She called a black person a monkey.

You're right.
Growing up with all the racism out there, it's not fair. There is no word for the white guy that will offend me or any other white guy that I know of. Yet there are plenty of terrible, disrespectful words to call other races. Totally one sided. I've had this conversation with my friends growing up. I'm still waiting for some good ones to get invented so I can be offended too.
It really is weird.

So does that make me a racist because I can't be offended by mere words? And don't get me started on sign language gestures.