Tariffs on Chinese goods?

[hoosierdoc]

And yet they say they’re open to negotiate new deals and the DOW jumps +670

who won the economic war between US and USSR again?

 

[Thor]

It wasn't just an economic war, it was a Cold War, and several proxy wars and we didn't win it by being blind to their intentions and just letting them play us for the fool.

 

[T.Lex]

Not even going to link it, because I think it will soon be followed by more, but China's reciprocal tariffs are a bit anemic. Looks like $3B.

They aren't going to lead with a frontal assault in this trade war.

 

[Jludo]

One thing I do like about Trump, he has self described conservatives arguing for protectionism and npr planet money making an impassioned case for free trade

 

[T.Lex]

One thing I do like about Trump, he has self described conservatives arguing for protectionism and npr planet money making an impassioned case for free trade

I think that's an oversimplification.

For me, at least, China has been "cheating" for a long term, in different ways. If a 3rd world country wants to do that, ok, maybe not a big deal. We can play along and rationalize that it is charity or nationbuilding or whatever.

But when a legitimate rival (best case scenario) does it, there are different ramifications.

 

[Jludo]

I think that's an oversimplification.

For me, at least, China has been "cheating" for a long term, in different ways. If a 3rd world country wants to do that, ok, maybe not a big deal. We can play along and rationalize that it is charity or nationbuilding or whatever.

But when a legitimate rival (best case scenario) does it, there are different ramifications.

it's a generalization, Trumps a protectionist all around China is just the biggest player. Or gets the biggest applause line, Canadians ripping us off on maple syrup doesn't elicit the same response.

 

[Jludo]

I'm also curious to find any economists on Trumps side of this issue. Any one have a respected economist for Trumps tariffs?

 

[KLB]

I love how the citizens get to pay for the trade war on both sides.

 

[Alpo]

I'm also curious to find any economists on Trumps side of this issue. Any one have a respected economist for Trumps tariffs?

Hayek.


(Salma, not Friedrich).

 

[Kutnupe14]

And yet they say they’re open to negotiate new deals and the DOW jumps +670

who won the economic war between US and USSR again?

Those "new deals" seem to have corrected themselves. -633

 

[Kutnupe14]

Not even going to link it, because I think it will soon be followed by more, but China's reciprocal tariffs are a bit anemic. Looks like $3B.

They aren't going to lead with a frontal assault in this trade war.

You called it.

BEIJING – China on Wednesday issued a $50 billion list of U.S. goods including soybeans and aircraft for a possible tariff hike in a spiraling technology disputewith U.S. President Donald Trump.
The tax agency said a date for imposing the 25 percent increase would be announced later, depending on whether Washington goes ahead with plans to raise duties on a similar amount of Chinese goods.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/04/04/china-raises-tariffs-soybeans-aircraft/484719002/

 

[Xterminator]

Does anyone remember NAFTA..they said thus would be great for USA...but how many jobs went to Mexico? All I see being built are warehouses to hold other (China) products. Will placing tariffs on products made outside this country raise prices on those goods ?.. mist likely but if you lost your job or industry to someone who was getting a unfair advantage ie.. cheap labor, inferior plastic crap what would you do? There was a time when we knew communism was bad, now we do business with them. Why do we bash someone trying to make America great again?.. I don't know.. just my opinion

 

[Kutnupe14]

Does anyone remember NAFTA..they said thus would be great for USA...but how many jobs went to Mexico? All I see being built are warehouses to hold other (China) products. Will placing tariffs on products made outside this country raise prices on those goods ?.. mist likely but if you lost your job or industry to someone who was getting a unfair advantage ie.. cheap labor, inferior plastic crap what would you do? There was a time when we knew communism was bad, now we do business with them. Why do we bash someone trying to make America great again?.. I don't know.. just my opinion

The last person that I think legitimately had that notion in mind (and I'm not particularly a fan) was Ronald Reagan.

 

[Expat]

There probably aren't any (many) economists that will support the Trump tariffs. The leftist economists that have supported the idea of tariffs in the past, wouldn't support Trump even if he perfectly modeled his plan after theirs.

 

[T.Lex]

Here's the thing about Trump, IMHO: he genuinely wants to make America great, with the primary test of that accomplishment being his personal aggrandizement. He doesn't necessarily want to make America great for everyone, just the people who are important to him.

And, he has no real idea about how to do it, but believes in his own abilities to do anything.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Here's the thing about Trump, IMHO: he genuinely wants to make America great, with the primary test of that accomplishment being his personal aggrandizement. He doesn't necessarily want to make America great for everyone, just the people who are important to him.

And, he has no real idea about how to do it, but believes in his own abilities to do anything.

Well yeah.... when I was speaking about MAGA, I was speaking with the idea of doing so for all, not for personal accomplishment and cronies.

 

[Jludo]

Does anyone remember NAFTA..they said thus would be great for USA...but how many jobs went to Mexico? All I see being built are warehouses to hold other (China) products. Will placing tariffs on products made outside this country raise prices on those goods ?.. mist likely but if you lost your job or industry to someone who was getting a unfair advantage ie.. cheap labor, inferior plastic crap what would you do? There was a time when we knew communism was bad, now we do business with them. Why do we bash someone trying to make America great again?.. I don't know.. just my opinion

is quality of life going up or down? I guess I just don't have much sympathy for someone unwilling to retool if their job was able to be done cheaper somewhere else, there are still jobs to be had here they are just different than what they were in the past. That's just how an economy grows and evolves, I don't have a problem helping those who are left behind retool but 'going back' isn't a solution.

Saying you're making America great and actually doing it aren't the same, I can't think of a politician elected who hasn't made the claim in different words.

 

[Jludo]

There probably aren't any (many) economists that will support the Trump tariffs. The leftist economists that have supported the idea of tariffs in the past, wouldn't support Trump even if he perfectly modeled his plan after theirs.

so would you think leftist economists are correct in their closeted assessment of tariffs?

 

[AmmoManAaron]

I guess I just don't have much sympathy for someone unwilling to retool if their job was able to be done cheaper somewhere else

For me, the key consideration is WHY is the job able to be done cheaper somewhere else.

Some reasons (not exhaustive):
1.) Currency manipulation
2.) Intellectual property theft
3.) Lax environmental laws
4.) Lax child labor and worker safety laws

Tariffs are a legitimate way to level the playing field against countries that have an unfair advantage from one or more of the reasons I listed above. Tariffs should not be used indiscriminately, but should be used when just cause exists. If you turn a blind eye to unfair competition, sooner or later you will have lost all of your manufacturing jobs. Nations prosper by producing goods either by farming, mining, or manufacturing. Service economies don't produce wealth, they just trade it around. Expecting people to endlessly "retool" as we steadily lose our various manufacturing jobs is unrealistic. Encouraging everyone to transition to the service sector is just plain foolish and will ultimately destroy our economy. A healthy economy needs to be balanced, self-sufficient, and create tangible wealth faster than it is consumed.

 

[Jludo]

For me, the key consideration is WHY is the job able to be done cheaper somewhere else.

Some reasons (not exhaustive):
1.) Currency manipulation
2.) Intellectual property theft
3.) Lax environmental laws
4.) Lax child labor and worker safety laws

Tariffs are a legitimate way to level the playing field against countries that have an unfair advantage from one or more of the reasons I listed above. Tariffs should not be used indiscriminately, but should be used when just cause exists. If you turn a blind eye to unfair competition, sooner or later you will have lost all of your manufacturing jobs. Nations prosper by producing goods either by farming, mining, or manufacturing. Service economies don't produce wealth, they just trade it around. Expecting people to endlessly "retool" as we steadily lose our various manufacturing jobs is unrealistic. Encouraging everyone to transition to the service sector is just plain foolish and will ultimately destroy our economy. A healthy economy needs to be balanced, self-sufficient, and create tangible wealth faster than it is consumed.

Majority of jobs here used to be in agriculture and the same argument was made, the fears didn't pan out. Developing Software is just as important today as anything else, nations prosper in many ways not just the small list of industries you listed.

Manufacturing jobs is not the same as production.