Tariffs on Chinese goods?

[BugI02]

we did something similar back then with Chinese tires, it's an interesting story.

Given the Chinese 'commitment' to the rule of law, and oft demonstrated concern for the health and safety of American consumers; I might run Chinese tires on a race car for one day/race (if I was paid enough to do it through sponsorship) but I don't believe I would ever run them on a personal vehicle

If you needed to sue a Chinese corporation for gross negligence, how successful would you expect to be? How would you even start?

 

[Jludo]

You could make the same argument about energy reserves, want to go back to $5 gasoline?

Exactly

 

[Jludo]

Given the Chinese 'commitment' to the rule of law, and oft demonstrated concern for the health and safety of American consumers; I might run Chinese tires on a race car for one day/race (if I was paid enough to do it through sponsorship) but I don't believe I would ever run them on a personal vehicle

If you needed to sue a Chinese corporation for gross negligence, how successful would you expect to be? How would you even start?

You supported the Obama administration in its Chinese tire tariff ?
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/06/14/191379313/why-more-people-are-renting-tires

 

[actaeon277]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-started-the-trade-war-not-trump-1521797401

 

[Jludo]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-started-the-trade-war-not-trump-1521797401

Can't read without a subscription but I saw this
[h=2]Unlike with steel and aluminum tariffs, economists see merit in Trump’s trade case against China[/h]

 

[Trigger Time]

Someone needs to do a redub of the song with "**** da police" and make it **** the Chinese! Oh and **** the Russians too

 

[actaeon277]

Can't read without a subscription but I saw this
Unlike with steel and aluminum tariffs, economists see merit in Trump’s trade case against China

That's weird. I read it. Now I can't.
I wonder if it's because I linked from a Facebook post.

 

[BugI02]

It's baaaaack (at least for me right here right now)

 

[BugI02]

You supported the Obama administration in its Chinese tire tariff ?
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/06/21/194326482/episode-467-tires-taxes-and-the-grizz

Negative, Ghostrider; my unwillingness to buy anything Chinese unless there is no viable alternative supports no larger agenda than personal conviction

And I'm old. I'm not going to listen to anybody present ****, it wastes my time. If it isn't text it get's no consideration

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Why would they charge a VAT on products shipped overseas? A VAT is consumption tax, and the steel is not being consumed in China.

I think that is commonly how VATs work.

In this context, VAT is not a consumption tax, it is not a sales tax, it is a Value Added Tax. Processing raw ore into steel adds value, and that added value is taxed. Processing steel into a car part adds value, and that added value is taxed. Putting parts together to make an automobile adds value versus the pile of parts, so that added value is taxed.

That is the basics of how VAT works, it is a tax upon the processing of raw materials or the assembly of parts into a product. It isn't assessed at point of sale like a sales tax, so it isn't really a consumption tax.

So, back to the raw steel, a company within China that processes ore into steel pays the VAT on that steel if it is used within China. However, if it EXPORTS the steel, it is exempted from the VAT tax, so Chinese steel is actually cheaper in the US than in China.

However, US steel, even though the value-added processing did not occur in China, is taxed with an extra VAT upon import. So, it's a double-whammy, a "protective" VAT tariff against import of US steel and a subsidy (VAT exemption) on Chinese steel export.

 

[Jludo]

Negative, Ghostrider; my unwillingness to buy anything Chinese unless there is no viable alternative supports no larger agenda than personal conviction

And I'm old. I'm not going to listen to anybody present ****, it wastes my time. If it isn't text it get's no consideration

its 4 min and has a text transcript below but you are too old to listen to something?
A sparknotes is that poorer folks without the luxury of choosing not to buy Chinese were forced to turn to far more expensive tire rentals. I'm all for buying quality but against tariffs that reduce consumer choice.

 

[BugI02]

its 4 min and has a text transcript below but you are too old to listen to something?
A sparknotes is that poorer folks without the luxury of choosing not to buy Chinese were forced to turn to far more expensive tire rentals. I'm all for buying quality but against tariffs that reduce consumer choice.

I know this is probably right up there with rolling a boulder up a hill, but:

This is the sum total of what I see when I open the link, if you consider that a text transcript I cannot help you

The price of tires has risen by about 40 percent in the past five years. That's partly because rubber prices have gone up. But it's also due to a tariff the U.S. imposed on Chinese tire imports.


As tire prices have risen, more people have been renting tires rather than buying them outright. And renting tires, it turns out, is often a bad deal in the long run.


On today's show: How a celebrated attempt to help one group of people ended quietly hurting a much larger group. Also on the show: The Grizz.


For more, see our story Why More People Are Renting Tires. And see the paper we mention on the show, U.S. Tire Tariffs: Saving Few Jobs at High Cost. Music: Karmin's "I Told You So" Find us: Twitter/ Facebook/Spotify/ Tumblr. Download the Planet Money iPhone App.

Secondly, poorer folks who can't afford anything but Chinese tires, and who then must switch to renting when that price goes up, probably can't afford to drive. How can they afford insurance or maintenance on their vehicles? I'm amazed that renting tires is actually a thing or that it is any cheaper in the long run than buying good tires. If they are the type of people that only worry if they can afford the monthly payment and are unconcerned with the total cost, caveat emptor. I would also like to know what kind of cable, internet and cell phone equipment/plans they have. If they are unwilling to dial back living beyond their means in other areas, their sob story does not affect me

Your tires are your lifeline, those four napkin-sized contact spots are pretty much all that stands between you and injury or death, and if the peeps are that poor then if they save a little longer to get good tires they should last quite a while. After all, it doesn't seem like they can afford to put that many miles on them in a year. Perhaps we can convince the tire sellers to accept EBT

If this is the best example of harm the tire tariffs caused (and without dealing with any benefits that might have accrued elsewhere, I see) with a reach like that NPR should consider a career as a pickpocket

 

[Thor]

The ChiComs are our enemies. Xi's China Dream is like Mein Kampf in his plan for the Chinese to take their rightful place as the rulers of humanity. Continue to buy cheap **** and fund their dream at your peril.

Go ahead, buy that cheap ChiCom fish at the supermarket...it's not like they're trying to claim the entire South China Sea is their personal fishing ground.

 

[Jludo]

I know this is probably right up there with rolling a boulder up a hill, but:

This is the sum total of what I see when I open the link, if you consider that a text transcript I cannot help you



Secondly, poorer folks who can't afford anything but Chinese tires, and who then must switch to renting when that price goes up, probably can't afford to drive. How can they afford insurance or maintenance on their vehicles? I'm amazed that renting tires is actually a thing or that it is any cheaper in the long run than buying good tires. If they are the type of people that only worry if they can afford the monthly payment and are unconcerned with the total cost, caveat emptor. I would also like to know what kind of cable, internet and cell phone equipment/plans they have. If they are unwilling to dial back living beyond their means in other areas, their sob story does not affect me

Your tires are your lifeline, those four napkin-sized contact spots are pretty much all that stands between you and injury or death, and if the peeps are that poor then if they save a little longer to get good tires they should last quite a while. After all, it doesn't seem like they can afford to put that many miles on them in a year. Perhaps we can convince the tire sellers to accept EBT

If this is the best example of harm the tire tariffs caused (and without dealing with any benefits that might have accrued elsewhere, I see) with a reach like that NPR should consider a career as a pickpocket

The link to the transcript is at the bottom. So NPR bashing Obama regulations doesn't appeal to you? I thought I could get you on one side, either with Obama or with NPR.

 

[KLB]

I know this is probably right up there with rolling a boulder up a hill, but:

This is the sum total of what I see when I open the link, if you consider that a text transcript I cannot help you



Secondly, poorer folks who can't afford anything but Chinese tires, and who then must switch to renting when that price goes up, probably can't afford to drive. How can they afford insurance or maintenance on their vehicles? I'm amazed that renting tires is actually a thing or that it is any cheaper in the long run than buying good tires. If they are the type of people that only worry if they can afford the monthly payment and are unconcerned with the total cost, caveat emptor. I would also like to know what kind of cable, internet and cell phone equipment/plans they have. If they are unwilling to dial back living beyond their means in other areas, their sob story does not affect me

Your tires are your lifeline, those four napkin-sized contact spots are pretty much all that stands between you and injury or death, and if the peeps are that poor then if they save a little longer to get good tires they should last quite a while. After all, it doesn't seem like they can afford to put that many miles on them in a year. Perhaps we can convince the tire sellers to accept EBT

If this is the best example of harm the tire tariffs caused (and without dealing with any benefits that might have accrued elsewhere, I see) with a reach like that NPR should consider a career as a pickpocket

It is sad how many people cannot afford or will not spend the money on tires. Whenever I am in Discount Tire I watch the customers and see person after person wanting the cheapest tire they can get. Replacing one that is flat, while ignoring the other ones that are bald, etc.

 

[BugI02]

After posting, I went to TireRack's website and used a 2008 Taurus SEL for a test case. I found plenty of good quality tires for a bit over $80 per. I have always been able to convince local purveyors of tires to match the TireRack+shipping price, or throw in an alignment or free mounting and balancing (and I buy considerably more expensive tires). There is also quite a range of businesses (at least in Columbus) dealing in used tires. These are taken off totalled vehicles or end of life rentals and while not what I would be interested in, from what I have seen are a decent option with half their life or more still available. We actually outfitted an on-site only tow vehicle with tires from this source because it had historically logged less than 1600 miles per year

I am cognizant of the survey in which an astonishingly high percentage of respondents said they could not accomodate an unexpected expense of $400, but if you can afford the tire rental monthly fee a little advance planning could alllow you to save enough to replace tires in pairs. Before you get that new android phone, before you bump up to 30meg internet or higher, before you spring for the cable upgrade that has all the sports channels you need to have a three months of expenses savings account. It's real life 101

 

[Alpo]

Nice to see you have your poop in one pile, Bug. Others aren't as smart as you and don't have the wherewithal to get good advice.

I don't wonder that certain folks are subject to predation. I do, however, see predators in this regard as scum.

 

[BugI02]

Personally, if I knew them and knew they weren't blowing a lot of money on stupid ****, I would probably buy them a set especially if they had small children. But no go if they're sporting Note 8s or Beats or shoes that cost more than two tires


ETA: The point was, I don't think tire tariffs put tires out of reach of the poor. What quick and dirty reading I've done indicates raw materials (rubber) became much more expensive driving up prices across the board. Some of the reading indicates that tire rental payments are " ... as low as $14.20 per week". $56 per month would buy two tires every three months, you just need to start the process before you need them. The poster was asserting that all they could afford was Chinese tires and then tariffs priced those out of reach. Tariffs hurt the poor yada yada

 

[Thor]

Chinese NatDef Ministry spokesman Col Ren Guojiang, 25 March 2018. "China holds indisputable sovereignty of the (Spratley) islands and their surrounding waters in the South China Sea. By repeatedly sending military ships into these areas without authorization, the U.S. has seriously harmed Chinese sovereignty and security, violated basic rules of international relations and harmed regional peace and stability." "It could easily cause misjudgments and accidents at air or sea. This is a serious political and military provocation."

Meanwhile: Chinese fighters and bombers few around Okinawa and Miyako Islands bracketing Japan in what they heralded publically as "rehearsals for future wars".

 

[T.Lex]

Dang!

There is no doubt that China is prepared for a multi-front response in the looming trade war.