Spare pistol mag: Bullets to the front? Or to the rear?

[Rob377]

Thanks for the video Rob! Those were some pretty slick reloads.

Off-topic question-- what was that ending procedure you were performing there at the rear of the slide?

Manually decocking. My CZs don't have a decocker. I leave the safety off, first shot is double action.

 

[HICKMAN]

my turn! another B shooter learning.

Yes, I "chicken wing" more with bullets forward, but it seem to be a more positive grasp of the mag.
The wrist roll happens after pulling the mag.

With the bullets rear, the arm definitely goes back more, but the grip has to be just right and the wrist roll happens on the way back to the mag.

I personally feel the bullets forward would be not only faster, but easier to do in a higher stress environment.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlKTIRsuxco

 

[esrice]

Manually decocking. My CZs don't have a decocker. I leave the safety off, first shot is double action.

Oh that makes sense. Thanks!

 

[WebSnyper]

Thanks to everyone that posted pics and vids. Being a visual person this has helped tremendously.I've learned quite a bit from this thread, and will start paying attention to this moving forward.

Need to get more time at ranges where I can actively practice dropping mags, drawing from holster, etc.

I think I'm going bullets forward.

 

[Shay]

Thanks to everyone that posted pics and vids. Being a visual person this has helped tremendously.I've learned quite a bit from this thread, and will start paying attention to this moving forward.

Need to get more time at ranges where I can actively practice dropping mags, drawing from holster, etc.

I think I'm going bullets forward.

You really don't need a range to practice draw stroke or reloads.

 

[Rob377]

You really don't need a range to practice draw stroke or reloads.

Truth.

Dry fire can hone these skills effectively.

 

[Shay]

You really don't need a range to practice draw stroke or reloads.

I shouldn't have to add these (but I will):
1. Keep ALL your ammo far away from your dry practice area.
2. When you start dry practice, tell yourself you are starting dry practice.
3. Pick a "safer" muzzle direction.
4. When you stop dry practice, tell yourself you are returning the gun to a loaded state.
5. Don't be an idiot.

 

[Roadie]

I shouldn't have to add these (but I will):
1. Keep ALL your ammo far away from your dry practice area.
2. When you start dry practice, tell yourself you are starting dry practice.
3. Pick a "safer" muzzle direction.
4. When you stop dry practice, tell yourself you are returning the gun to a loaded state.
5. Don't be an idiot.

^this^
I even go into a separate room from where the ammo is after I have checked and double checked my mags only have snap caps in them..

I know some here are against dry fire practice, but:

A: I can't afford to go to the range several times a week
B: most ranges don't allow holster draws

 

[Shay]

^this^
I even go into a separate room from where the ammo is after I have checked and double checked my mags only have snap caps in them..

I know some here are against dry fire practice, but:

A: I can't afford to go to the range several times a week
B: most ranges don't allow holster draws

Who is against dry practice? Me? Hardly.

But I don't believe it helps new shooters cure flinching or trigger control issues which is what people seem to prescribe it for most often.

 

[GBuck]

I carry my spare mags bullet-front forward/up because that's the way IPD/MCSD was teaching it when I was taught. It only took a couple of years of tactical reloading during qualifications to become second-nature and I don't see any reason to change what my body has already learned and assimilated.

Who was your mcsd instructor? That's not how it's being taught there now.

 

[VN Vet]

I haven't read every post, but I am sure most everyone will agree that when you grab your 2nd mag with your free hand you'll want to be able to insert it into your firearm without having to rotate the magazine.

If that is not the answer you are looking for, then the bullets face forward when they are loaded into the firearm or toward the open end of the barrel. :>)

Vv

 

[Roadie]

Who is against dry practice? Me? Hardly.

But I don't believe it helps new shooters cure flinching or trigger control issues which is what people seem to prescribe it for most often.

Oh no, certainly not you..
There are other posters who have voiced an anti dry fire practice stance, citing that it is "dangerous" and that guns should only be used as intended, to fire a projectile..

 

[Shay]

Oh no, certainly not you..
There are other posters who have voiced an anti dry fire practice stance, citing that it is "dangerous" and that guns should only be used as intended, to fire a projectile..

Ah. Yeah, that's certainly not me.

 

[HICKMAN]

Oh no, certainly not you..
There are other posters who have voiced an anti dry fire practice stance, citing that it is "dangerous" and that guns should only be used as intended, to fire a projectile..

that is ridiculous...

 

[netsecurity]

I see the advantage of bullets forward now. With bullets back you must rotate the mag 180 degrees with your wrist (from facing down to facing up), with bullets forward you just rotate your rist to the righ 90 degrees (fromfaing down to facing right).

Still, you are all asuming the gun also rotates 90 degees to the left so that you can see the magwell better, but I always planned on keeping the sites on target, and inserting the mag from underneath, hence the 180 degree twist of the left hand made sense. I'm surprised no one has pointed this out. Shouldn't you be able to load mags with your eyes closes, and if so, why turn the gun 90 degrees to the left?

So if you are going to compare methods, try not moving your gun hand at all when using bullets back. I still haven't done my own speed tests, but I think my logic is sound. My goal is to keep my sights on target during the reload.

 

[Jackson]

I see the advantage of bullets forward now. With bullets back you must rotate the mag 180 degrees with your wrist (from facing down to facing up), with bullets forward you just rotate your rist to the righ 90 degrees (fromfaing down to facing right).

Still, you are all asuming the gun also rotates 90 degees to the left so that you can see the magwell better, but I always planned on keeping the sites on target, and inserting the mag from underneath, hence the 180 degree twist of the left hand made sense. I'm surprised no one has pointed this out. Shouldn't you be able to load mags with your eyes closes, and if so, why turn the gun 90 degrees to the left?

So if you are going to compare methods, try not moving your gun hand at all when using bullets back. I still haven't done my own speed tests, but I think my logic is sound. My goal is to keep my sights on target during the reload.

Loading from underneath without bringing the gun in to your body somewhat is awkward and makes it more difficult to control. You bring the gun in to your body so that you have improved strength and dexterity to maintain control of the gun. You also make the angles work with the mechanics of your arms rather than having to manipulate the mag in your grip way out in front of you to make up for the up/down orientation of the magwell.

 

[HICKMAN]

Still, you are all asuming the gun also rotates 90 degees to the left so that you can see the magwell better, but I always planned on keeping the sites on target, and inserting the mag from underneath, hence the 180 degree twist of the left hand made sense. I'm surprised no one has pointed this out. Shouldn't you be able to load mags with your eyes closes, and if so, why turn the gun 90 degrees to the left?

Keep the gun high in your "face box", eyes can be on the target, but you still need to see the magwell so you don't miss the reload and cost yourself more time. I've heard the same thing from champion shooters and tactical instructors both.

Your method makes sense with a rifle because you have more points of contact with it.

As you saw in Rob's video above, with practice, you can be reloaded and back on target in just over a second.

 

[grizman]

The difference is the direction of the palm, bullets forward requires, me to use an unnatural palm out draw. While the rear facing mag allows a more natural palm in draw for me.

Cartridges facing rearward, with a natural palm in grasp, orients the cartridge forward as you rotate the mag upright for insertion in one motion without twisting the wrist or elbow nearly as much, keeping the elbow tighter to the body, while keeping the weapon closer to the body and more upright and on target.

Never saw a man in combat leave his weapon up to eye level, rotate it 90ish degrees while twisting off target to reload as shown in the posted videos, except in combat video games. We were trained to bring back ready to reload for retention purpose and to avoid contacting objects as we moved during the reload.

Self defense situations are more like combat than competition shooting. Some techniques from competitive shooting are great, but not all are practical in self defense situations. Rob Pincus understands this.

Is one better than the other? Yes. But one is not a "fits all" better method. Try both pick the one that is the most comfortable(natural) for you and train train and train till you can do it without looking every time. Then and only then is it the best way for you.

Just my worth.

 

[blamecharles]

Oh no, certainly not you..
There are other posters who have voiced an anti dry fire practice stance, citing that it is "dangerous" and that guns should only be used as intended, to fire a projectile..

I hear about this all the time. Remove the barrel, shouldn't this make sure nothing can happen?

The difference is the direction of the palm, bullets forward requires, me to use an unnatural palm out draw. While the rear facing mag allows a more natural palm in draw for me.

Cartridges facing rearward, with a natural palm in grasp, orients the cartridge forward as you rotate the mag upright for insertion in one motion without twisting the wrist or elbow nearly as much, keeping the elbow tighter to the body, while keeping the weapon closer to the body and more upright and on target.

Never saw a man in combat leave his weapon up to eye level, rotate it 90ish degrees while twisting off target to reload as shown in the posted videos, except in combat video games. We were trained to bring back ready to reload for retention purpose and to avoid contacting objects as we moved during the reload.

Self defense situations are more like combat than competition shooting. Some techniques from competitive shooting are great, but not all are practical in self defense situations. Rob Pincus understands this.

Is one better than the other? Yes. But one is not a "fits all" better method. Try both pick the one that is the most comfortable(natural) for you and train train and train till you can do it without looking every time. Then and only then is it the best way for you.

Just my worth.

This is probably the most relevant post to this thread in my opinion.

 

[HICKMAN]

Self defense situations are more like combat than competition shooting. Some techniques from competitive shooting are great, but not all are practical in self defense situations. Rob Pincus understands this.

As you know, MOST of the work over there is done with a rifle in hand, not a handgun. We don't walk around the streets with drop-leg or chest rigs for our pistols, they are on our belts. We also don't walk around with mag pouches either, we wear them on our weak hand side.

Second, you will most likely be alone in a self-defense scenario, not moving with a squad.

I'm glad you never saw "a man in combat" do so and so. I can walk in to the next room and talk to any number of 18D's, 11B's, Marines and NSW guys and they will all say how they learned this and that and none of them do anything exactly the same.

We are talking about how we conceal carry in Indiana... not Kabul. Rob Pincus is a good guy... who also sells training. You can get any number of trainers that have their own way to spin how they do things.

As far as reloading, I want to get more bullets in the gun AS FAST AS I CAN, which is also why I don't do the "Travis Hailey Magpul video" reload... even though it looks cool, it's a wasted movement.