Spare pistol mag: Bullets to the front? Or to the rear?

[Blackhawk2001]

Who was your mcsd instructor? That's not how it's being taught there now.

I actually learned it when I attended an IPD firearms qualification course in 1996 (along with a couple other "non-police-academy" folks). That was the way it was being taught, as I recall. When I went through the Special Deputy program in 1998, I don't believe our "instructor" expressed a preference; I simply kept on with what I had learned. For a couple years after I became a part-time Special Deputy, IPD/MCSD were still sharing ECPR and conducting joint training. By the time they split up again, my preferences were pretty well cemented in place.

 

[HICKMAN]

I'm still looking for a good, clear video of how one does the rear-facing bullets mag draw.

I don't know if I was doing it right in my video, it was the only thing I could come up with that seemed logical.

 

[esrice]

Never saw a man in combat leave his weapon up to eye level, rotate it 90ish degrees while twisting off target to reload as shown in the posted videos, except in combat video games.

How long ago did you see combat? Could the TTPs have changed since then? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but a lot has changed in terms of close-quarters and urban tactics in the past decade. Many recent vets-turned-trainers are teaching "workspace" just in front of the eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJDp6x3FHsQ

 

[goinggreyfast]

I carry my spare mag in a horizontal knife sheath with the bullets facing downward. It's then a natural move to grab it with my thumb and a couple fingers and load my sidearm without having to turn the mag. I prefer a horizontal because it doesn't hinder or print when bending over or sitting down--rides nicely on my support side.

 

[HICKMAN]

Evan, again I can't thank you enough for pushing me towards a subscription for PP.

So much awesomeness.

 

[HICKMAN]

I carry my spare mag in a horizontal knife sheath with the bullets facing downward. It's then a natural move to grab it with my thumb and a couple fingers and load my sidearm without having to turn the mag. I prefer a horizontal because it doesn't hinder or print when bending over or sitting down--rides nicely on my support side.

I saw some mag holder like that somewhere, has the mag ride with the belt, thought it was a neat concept. I like your method here even better.

 

[goinggreyfast]

I saw some mag holder like that somewhere, has the mag ride with the belt, thought it was a neat concept. I like your method here even better.

These only cost between $5-$7 at the Army Surplus store too. They also have the flap that closes over the front of the sheath to keep the mag in place. It comes open quickly & easily too.

 

[esrice]

Evan, again I can't thank you enough for pushing me towards a subscription for PP.

Hey I'm glad you're enjoying them. So much information there.

 

[GIJEW]

I apologize for not having any pics/video for show and tell. I got a mac and I'm learning how to use it--next will be knowing how to upload them to a specific thread.
I canabalized a method I was taught 30+yrs ago in the IDF for reloading an M16 (I don't know if that method is still taught).
step 1) turn the new mag 45 deg. forward below the mag well, about 3/4 the length of the mag.
step 2) release the old mag. into the bottom half of your palm and hold it with your bottom 3 fingers and remove it.
step 3) insert the new mag. as normal.

Ok so I had some time to actually sit down and try the "rearward" method.

I was looking for breakdowns in the technique.

As GBuck/Rob Pincus/Roadie and others have pointed out, it certainly works, and it is able to be done without chicken-winging so much. With some practice I'm sure I could get better/faster with it.

That being said, I had some issues when it came to "tactical" reloads ie removing and retaining a partial magazine and inserting a full one. I don't know if you "bullets rearward" guys have a preferred technique, but I wasn't getting it.

To break it down further, I snapped a few pics.

Here is how I would normally remove a magazine from a pouch (bullets forward).

Here is how GBuck does it (bullets rearward).

With bullets forward, I index off of two points-- the bullet tip/index finger, and baseplate/palm.

And it looks like this.

Even with bullets rearward, GBuck indexes off the same two points. The difference is in how the magazine is oriented in the hand.

Now when I perform a tactical reload, I move my index finger over to the side of the magazine, so I can pinch the partial mag as it falls from the gun. I then insert the full mag and slam it home with my palm.

Like this.

Now if I attempt to tac-load using the bullets rearward technique, it looks like this.

You'll note that the full magazine is oriented 90 degrees off, which means I have to split my fingers further apart, which isn't as easy or comfortable.

The other (and more important) problem is that the partial mag would hinder insertion of the full magazine, hitting me in the forearm. This is due to the 90 degree turn of the full magazine.

The quick "fix" for this was to simply rotate the magazine in my hand as I went from pouch to gun, thereby putting it in the same orientation as it would've been if I had removed it from a bullets forward position in the first place.

To the bullets rearward guys-- how to you perform a tactical reload? Am I missing something?

 

[David Rose]

Rob377
I can't resist a competition. 1.17 who's next?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuwP...DvjVQa1PpcFNm5NZ53_gUfyLy7KGgBnqWfa9bSdYyqYw=

 

[rvb]

Rob377
I can't resist a competition. 1.17 who's next?

Nice, Dave.
While your bullets face the right way, your gun's on the wrong side.

I don't have anything recent on film w a production gun, though I've seen ~1.15 a few times recently.

Here is an el prez w. my open gun a couple years back. Stopwatch has it around 1.1 - 1.15.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeyfvdJ0FEE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[David Rose]

My time on top was short and sweet. Nicely done RVB.

On my way to the range I realized that in the car I had 4 devices capable of recording video. It's possible that carrying magazines bullet backward is some how related to technophobia.

 

[Rob377]

How long ago did you see combat? Could the TTPs have changed since then? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but a lot has changed in terms of close-quarters and urban tactics in the past decade. Many recent vets-turned-trainers are teaching "workspace" just in front of the eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJDp6x3FHsQ

OMG....he's talking about efficiency and using the slide release! Tactical Timmy heads everywhere just exploded.

 

[Steve MI]

Not really i show the students the how and whys of each and let them decide

but there are other factors that go with each as well

 

[rvb]

Bullets FWD = sub 1s

Bullets backward guys- the time to beat is 1.40, shot to shot at 7yds. Make with the videos! Prove yourselves! (I kid, I kid. Just a little friendly competition )

New time to beat is 0.99 seconds.

Bone stock G19. About 5 yds (sorry, Rob, forgot you specified a distance). Using my competition belt/holster/pouch rig and G17 mags cause, well, that's what I had with me. Draw was 0.81!

Where's the bullets-backwards vids??

-rvb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP0NL0Af_SI

 

[H&SFarms]

I carry horizontal, bullets facing down ,strong side on my duty belt and in plain clothes same thing just with single mag pouch.......... If it works for you go for it.

 

[Rob377]

New time to beat is 0.99 seconds.

Bone stock G19. About 5 yds (sorry, Rob, forgot you specified a distance). Using my competition belt/holster/pouch rig and G17 mags cause, well, that's what I had with me. Draw was 0.81!

Where's the bullets-backwards vids??

-rvb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP0NL0Af_SI

I'm sure that 2yds made all the difference in the world.

Scary fast, nicely done! I'm gonna go dry fire some more now.

 

[esrice]

I carry horizontal, bullets facing down ,strong side on my duty belt and in plain clothes same thing just with single mag pouch..........

How do you perform a tactical reload? Do you turn the mag in your hand?

 

[H&SFarms]

The opening of the pouch is toward the middle of my body. I am right handed so my mag pouch is on my right side just in front of my holster, the opening toward the middle of my body. I use my weak hand to grasp the mag. I will try to post more pics when I have time to try to clarify how I do it.


this is a picture I found on Google that shows how my mag ouch is placed on my belt.

How do you perform a tactical reload? Do you turn the mag in your hand?

 

[Rob377]

New time to beat is 0.99 seconds.

Bone stock G19. About 5 yds (sorry, Rob, forgot you specified a distance). Using my competition belt/holster/pouch rig and G17 mags cause, well, that's what I had with me. Draw was 0.81!

Where's the bullets-backwards vids??

-rvb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP0NL0Af_SI

Here we go (and at 7yds to boot! ) Still not even coming close on the draw. Darn double action!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvuqjecA8dw&feature=youtube_gdata