Sarah Palin is ready to leave GOP...

[ViperJock]

Obama isn't all that bad on guns, hell he is basically the best salesman the gun lobby has right now.

WHAAAAAAT? Where do you come from? Obama is the best salesman exactly BECAUSE he is so bad on guns. You're statement is 1+1=7.

 

[arthrimus]

Individual liberty mostly. I agree with them on social issues. I am pro-choice and pro-gay marriage. Palin is neither of these. If you insist that she is pro-individual liberty, I think you're mistaken. I believe the pro-life argument is a statist position. It's not the right of the state to tell a woman she can't have an abortion (I will elaborate further if you wish). Being anti-gay marriage is also statist.

Sorry to break it to you but pro gay marriage is a completely statist position, and pro life is about as statist as any of the anti murder laws that I'm sure you would be hard pressed to disagree with.

The individual liberty argument for gay marriage is to remove marriage from the books entirely. let it be a ritual and a tradition for any and all who want it no matter what their particular scenario is. Why is it fair for the government to so narrowly define marriage as between one man and one woman, or two of the same sex? Why not let churches, cultures, and individuals define it for themselves without state interference?

Visitation rights? That problem is as easy to solve as creating a simple legal contract authorizing it.

Custody? Well we already have a system that sorts this stuff out every day between all sorts of couples, married or not.

Tax benefits? Well I don't really see a reason that married couples ought to get any tax benefits that I cannot get anyway. What makes them so special? How about a flat tax?

As for pro life, come on now, it's not 1973 any more. Medical science has come a long way, and we now know for a fact that at conception that "organizm" as you would likely call it is in fact a unique creature, who's dna is distincly different from that of it's mother. It is an individual human life form. I don't know how anyone, armed with the scientific facts could possibly see abortion as anything other than murder.

The only pro abortion argument that could possibly be made is not a scientific one, but rather a philosophical one. The question being, do we only consider a genetically human creature to be human when it is sentient. If that is your metric for determining the value of life, then there are a lot of people who have awoken from a comatose state who might want to have a word with you.

 

[hornadylnl]

Pro-choice isn't about liberty, its about selfishness and lack of personal responsibility. Ironic that the party that claims every life is important when it comes to gun violence likes to knock off babies left and right (pun intended).

funny that the party that claims to be heros of the unborn don't seem to like them much once born. Yard apes, devil children, demon spawn, crumb snatchers who ran like roaches, etc.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_room/296688-trashy_people_next_door.html

Marriage is a religious institute that has been hijacked by the government. I believe that constitutionally speaking congress isn't supposed to mess with religion. Get your civil union if you want.

and one party wants to amend the constitution to ban gay marriage. That is a party demanding a hijack of a religious institute.

These issues aren't about liberty. These issues are about restricting the liberty of others in YOUR favor.

.

 

[arthrimus]

WHAAAAAAT? Where do you come from? Obama is the best salesman exactly BECAUSE he is so bad on guns. You're statement is 1+1=7.

Yeah but to his credit, he hasn't actually DONE anything bad involving guns. I am starting to lean towards the idea that the gun lobby might be paying him off to perpetuate the scare so they can keep raking in the $$$

 

[ViperJock]

So Hornady, two wrongs make a right? both examples you gave. I don't think most republicans are racists and bigots like the Dems make them out to be. But thanks for making my point that neither of these issues are about civil liberty. on either side of the isle.

 

[hornadylnl]

So Hornady, two wrongs make a right? both examples you gave.

No, I don't follow the beliefs of either major party on those issues. It's funny watching those of either party who think their position is morally superior to the others.

One party doesn't see abortion as murder but wants to spend tax dollars to raise those who managed to avoid the holocaust. The other wants to force every mother to carry their pregnancy to term only to forget about them once born. He'll, it seems that many are more concerned with Johnny having access to shoot cheap ammo than having a full belly. BOTTOM LINE? Both view government as the means to implement their agenda.

One party wants government to force gay marriage and make everyone accept it. The other party wants government to ban gay marriage. BOTTOM LINE? Both view government as the means to implement their agenda.

 

[ViperJock]

No, I don't follow the beliefs of either major party on those issues. It's funny watching those of either party who think their position is morally superior to the others.

One party doesn't see abortion as murder but wants to spend tax dollars to raise those who managed to avoid the holocaust. The other wants to force every mother to carry their pregnancy to term only to forget about them once born. He'll, it seems that many are more concerned with Johnny having access to shoot cheap ammo than having a full belly. BOTTOM LINE? Both view government as the means to implement their agenda.

One party wants government to force gay marriage and make everyone accept it. The other party wants government to ban gay marriage. BOTTOM LINE? Both view government as the means to implement their agenda.

I totally agree with you on this. I just preferentially go after the Dems first because I detest them slightly more than I detest the Reps, and I detest them both slightly more than I detest the Libertarians. Most of the time. lol.

 

[spec4]

Coming from the person who claims to see russia from her house. She's the biggest idiot in politics haha let her leave. Like anyone cares.

You do know that she didn't really say that, right?

 

[Hotdoger]

Coming from the person who claims to see russia from her house. She's the biggest idiot in politics haha let her leave. Like anyone cares.

LOL at YOU!!!!

Palin haters calling her dumb is so funny my gut hurts from laughing so hard!

 

[MisterChester]

WHAAAAAAT? Where do you come from? Obama is the best salesman exactly BECAUSE he is so bad on guns. You're statement is 1+1=7.

I had a little sarcasm in there somewhere

 

[MisterChester]

Pro-choice isn't about liberty, its about selfishness and lack of personal responsibility. Ironic that the party that claims every life is important when it comes to gun violence likes to knock off babies left and right (pun intended).

Marriage is a religious institute that has been hijacked by the government. I believe that constitutionally speaking congress isn't supposed to mess with religion. Get your civil union if you want.

These issues aren't about liberty. These issues are about restricting the liberty of others in YOUR favor.

Ah, the same way how repubs "value" unborn life but once it's out it's "you're on your own kid" if the family should fall on hard times?

Civil unions? Separate but equal doesn't work.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

The other wants to force every mother to carry their pregnancy to term only to forget about them once born.

I've seen you make this statement many times. It would appear you are either indemnifying the people that should be taking their own responsibilities or are you suggesting the .gov should step in? What is governments' role supposed to be? If we're supposed to own up to our own failures for not planning ahead and stock piling ammo, shouldn't the people that bear the children take care if their own families?

 

[hrearden]

No, I don't follow the beliefs of either major party on those issues. It's funny watching those of either party who think their position is morally superior to the others.

One party doesn't see abortion as murder but wants to spend tax dollars to raise those who managed to avoid the holocaust. The other wants to force every mother to carry their pregnancy to term only to forget about them once born. He'll, it seems that many are more concerned with Johnny having access to shoot cheap ammo than having a full belly. BOTTOM LINE? Both view government as the means to implement their agenda.

One party wants government to force gay marriage and make everyone accept it. The other party wants government to ban gay marriage. BOTTOM LINE? Both view government as the means to implement their agenda.

These 2 sentences sum it nicely. Viper, if you agree with these statements, why didnt you just say them?

 

[hrearden]

I've seen you make this statement many times. It would appear you are either indemnifying the people that should be taking their own responsibilities or are you suggesting the .gov should step in? What is governments' role supposed to be? If we're supposed to own up to our own failures for not planning ahead and stock piling ammo, shouldn't the people that bear the children take care if their own families?

I dont think thats what was suggested at all. I think youre trying to make him argue those points against each other.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I dont think thats what was suggested at all. I think youre trying to make him argue those points against each other.

Thanks for the compliment but I'm not that smart. If there's another aspect, he's certainly capable enough to expound on it.

 

[Bummer]

.. when asked about the seemingly constant harangue against republicans and not democrats, ...

I wasn't asked, but since this thread isn't really about what this thread is about and this comment was made, I'm going to respond.

A friend once asked why I don't harangue (he didn't use that word, but it's what he meant) the Democrats the way I do the Republicans.

I explained to him that the Democrats are my declared enemy. They state straight out that they are against everything I believe in. They do everything they can to destroy most of the Constitution, stating that it is outdated. They are wrong-headed in the extreme. They fling insults rather than discuss. They distort the facts whenever it suits them. They pick my pocket to support things they like - welfare, for example. I have absolutely no positive expectations of them whatsoever. As such they can hardly disappoint me. In fact, I am shocked when they don't disappoint me.

I went on to explain that the Republicans keep telling me they're my friends. They claim to believe in, respect, and follow the Constitution. They tell me that they are true conservatives. When I look at the party and their chosen people I find they pick and choose the parts of the Constitution they follow, make excuses for not following that which does not suit their immediate desires, and chip away at the Constitution almost as enthusiastically as the Democrats. They tend to be as wrong-headed as the Democrats, though usually about different things. Some (many?) of them insult rather than discuss. Some (many?) of them distort the facts whenever it suits them. They pick my pocket to support things they like - wars, for example. Ultimately they tell me they're my friends and philosophical soul mates, and that I should trust them. They attempt to engender positive expectations, but in application almost always disappoint.

Now imagine, you have (step) child A (let's call him Alex) who is cheerful and cooperative, willing to learn, says he wants to grow to be friends, but messes up occasionally - maybe even a lot. You have (step) child B (let's call this one Billy) who is surly and uncooperative, refuses to learn, says he can't stand you or anything about you, and seems for all the world to be destined for a number of years in prison over an endless stream of petty annoyances. To whom do you offer guidance? Do you continue to work with Alex, sometimes pushing as seems needed, in the hopes that he will become a well rounded adult? Do you perhaps eventually give up on Billy, since for years if you told him the sun was yellow he would insist it is black?

I poke at the Republicans because they say they believe, but have ceaselessly disappointed. I tend to ignore the yammering of Democrats because they say they can't stand anything I believe in, so I have no expectations that bear repeating in polite company.

I do not vote for Republicans, but I maintain a dialog hoping to alter their direction in the hopes that some day I can. Some of the more obdurate view that dialog as me picking on them. They day I quit trying is the day I've consigned the Republicans to the trash bin along side the Democrats. I don't want to give up on Alex the way I've given up on Billy.

 

[hrearden]

I wasn't asked, but since this thread isn't really about what this thread is about and this comment was made, I'm going to respond.

A friend once asked why I don't harangue (he didn't use that word, but it's what he meant) the Democrats the way I do the Republicans.

I explained to him that the Democrats are my declared enemy. They state straight out that they are against everything I believe in. They do everything they can to destroy most of the Constitution, stating that it is outdated. They are wrong-headed in the extreme. They fling insults rather than discuss. They distort the facts whenever it suits them. They pick my pocket to support things they like - welfare, for example. I have absolutely no positive expectations of them whatsoever. As such they can hardly disappoint me. In fact, I am shocked when they don't disappoint me.

I went on to explain that the Republicans keep telling me they're my friends. They claim to believe in, respect, and follow the Constitution. They tell me that they are true conservatives. When I look at the party and their chosen people I find they pick and choose the parts of the Constitution they follow, make excuses for not following that which does not suit their immediate desires, and chip away at the Constitution almost as enthusiastically as the Democrats. They tend to be as wrong-headed as the Democrats, though usually about different things. Some (many?) of them insult rather than discuss. Some (many?) of them distort the facts whenever it suits them. They pick my pocket to support things they like - wars, for example. Ultimately they tell me they're my friends and philosophical soul mates, and that I should trust them. They attempt to engender positive expectations, but in application almost always disappoint.

Now imagine, you have (step) child A (let's call him Alex) who is cheerful and cooperative, willing to learn, says he wants to grow to be friends, but messes up occasionally - maybe even a lot. You have (step) child B (let's call this one Billy) who is surly and uncooperative, refuses to learn, says he can't stand you or anything about you, and seems for all the world to be destined for a number of years in prison over an endless stream of petty annoyances. To whom do you offer guidance? Do you continue to work with Alex, sometimes pushing as seems needed, in the hopes that he will become a well rounded adult? Do you perhaps eventually give up on Billy, since for years if you told him the sun was yellow he would insist it is black?

I poke at the Republicans because they say they believe, but have ceaselessly disappointed. I tend to ignore the yammering of Democrats because they say they can't stand anything I believe in, so I have no expectations that bear repeating in polite company.

I do not vote for Republicans, but I maintain a dialog hoping to alter their direction in the hopes that some day I can. Some of the more obdurate view that dialog as me picking on them. They day I quit trying is the day I've consigned the Republicans to the trash bin along side the Democrats. I don't want to give up on Alex the way I've given up on Billy.

I was thinking along these same lines for that same argument. You just put it into better words than I had in my head at that point. People who want true liberty and limited gov. are tired of being talked to and/or associated with the Republicans simply because they are a gun owner or think the Dems suck balls. There are probably 2 Republicans I would vote for right now. Otherwise, the party has been relegated to the heap.

 

[MisterChester]

@bummer I'm the same way except with democrats. The republicans are against almost everything I am for, while democrats tell me they stand for my beliefs yet fail many times, through their fault or republican obstruction.

 

[hornadylnl]

I've seen you make this statement many times. It would appear you are either indemnifying the people that should be taking their own responsibilities or are you suggesting the .gov should step in? What is governments' role supposed to be? If we're supposed to own up to our own failures for not planning ahead and stock piling ammo, shouldn't the people that bear the children take care if their own families?

I'm not saying govnment should step in and take care of these children. I'm merely making the point that those who seem to care so much about children in fact don't. I've even seen private charity towards the homeless railed on here. For all the effort bloviated here about getting ammo into the hands of children, how many of those same people are trying to get food into the bellies of children?

 

[hrearden]

@bummer I'm the same way except with democrats. The republicans are against almost everything I am for, while democrats tell me they stand for my beliefs yet fail many times, through their fault or republican obstruction.

So I guess I gotta ask: If you're for for everything the Democrats stand for and they are letting you down, what are you doing on a gun forum?