Round in the chamber or no? XD9

[ATM]

If you are good, both methods can be ready to fire in under a second:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-w9vKyB74c

Because one will always have both hands available, right?

 

[thebishopp]

I am a new carrier as well. I've been practicing my drawing on a regular basis, but I carry without one in the chamber for now.

If you are good, both methods can be ready to fire in under a second:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-w9vKyB74c

Pretty quick shooting... I would of course like to see where your round actually placed on at least a 3 yard target (I'm saying that your shot wouldn't be accurate but if it is it would be a good video to do).

Back to the point. While you demonstrated quick shooting under range conditions... the fact is that even gunsite instructors (as well as others) could not draw and fire in time to stop a knife wielding opponent from up to 21 feet away and I'm pretty sure these guys were just as fast, if not faster than you. In many cases, even though the guy was "shot" his motion forward carried the attacker into the "officer".

Add to that the real world conditions where you might not be able to transition your left hand across your body to rack the slide (such as that gas station video where the man was attacked - it was posted here on ingo).

If the subject gets to close you could easily find yourself with your arm pinned against your body and no round in the chamber as he tackles you. Keeping in mind that most shootings occur less than 15 feet from a person it is not likely that you will be able to draw, rack the slide, and fire before he is upon you. If you do not rack that slide before he is, you will find yourself in a position where your "clearing arm" is going to be pinned against your body and you will have a useless pistol in your right hand.

Keeping in mind that also under a high stress situation you will not be acting like you do on a range. Adding more "steps" in between you drawing and firing your weapon is not advisable.

Now there are a couple of vidoes I'd like to see you do (not being "mean" I really would like to see the time involved because you are pretty quick). Put that weapon in a ccw position and repeat the drill. I would also request that you don't stand like you are getting ready for a john wayne style shootout. In real life you probably wouldn't be facing down an opponent like he was a target at the gun range. Also put up a target at 7 to 15 feet (you pick but I would probably say 7) and see where your shots hit.

Also, since you may be facing a gun wielding opponent instead of just a knife or other melee type weapon, I would also like to see "off the x" videos. From various positions (none of which should be "gunslinger" poses) break from it, while drawing, racking the slide and firing. Since we can't do this with a live opponent a stationary target would suffice (realizing of course that a real opponent will probably be moving as well and taking that into account).

 

[mrortega]

The one I saw the guy was hit first, if I recall, but was fumbling with his gun and was never able to return fire, and was shot again..

Yeah, that's the one. Who knows which shot was the fatal one. Even the 1st couple from complete surpise could have eventually (within minutes?) done him in. But the main premise is that he should have had the thing chamber loaded. If he was fumbling for a safety that also turned into a nightmare.

 

[kludge]

I'll add one more...

It's barely conceivable that you would ever need to re-holster in a hurry. Practice re-holstering by putting the gun in a "low-ready" or whatever your instructor teaches. At the same time, your finger should come off the trigger and go to the "touch point" on the side of the frame. If you determine that it is safe and appropriate to re-holster (remember to check your six... all around actually... and you may even want to do a tactical reload) then LOOK at your holster; use you weak hand to hold back your clothing/cover garment; since you are shooting a gun with a grip safety (SA-XD), take your shooting thumb OFF the grip and put the tip of your thumb on the back of the slide where the cocking indicator is located; now LOOK your gun into your holster, DO NOT do it by feel alone.

A hurried re-holstering can result in an unintentional discharge -- someone just posted this week that it happened to him. He had his finger on the trigger while re-holstering and put two nice holes in his pants, and fortunately only his pants.

Others have not been so fortunate and have shot themselves in the leg because a drawstring from a jacket or bent over piece of leather have been the caught in the trigger guard.

Even if you are an OC person and not wearing a cover garment, get in the habit of using the off-hand to hold back the clothing.

LOOK the gun into the holster. Practice it every time. Practice it while dry firing. Make a habit of it, just like drawing with your finger off the trigger.

 

[Roadie]

Yeah, that's the one. Who knows which shot was the fatal one. Even the 1st couple from complete surpise could have eventually (within minutes?) done him in. But the main premise is that he should have had the thing chamber loaded. If he was fumbling for a safety that also turned into a nightmare.

Agreed

Didnt see the vid was posted, hazards of posting from my phone

 

[charley59]

Carry with one in the chamber, as i do in my XD. Read the owners manual. The XD has a firing pin safety, a grip safety, and a trigger safety. The only way the XD will fire is if you grip the gun properly, compressing the grip safety, and then pull the trigger.

 

[jeremy]

If you are in a SHTF situation etc, you can be racking the slide as you are pulling the firearm up to aim.

You had better PRACTICE that maneuver a LOT, if you have any hope of using it in a real situation...

 

[JoshuaRWhite]

I keep one in the chamber with the safety off without my hammer engaged. My Taurus PT-945 is a double action so ND's are harder to pull off. Plus practice makes perfect. So if your gonna Israeli draw (racking the slide as you draw) you can get it just as fast as carrying one in the chamber.

 

[mrortega]

I just can't say enough about a striker fired pistol that has a firing pin block. There is no manual, operable safety to worry about, no hammer to worry about, and no double action first shot with single action thereafter. Be it Glock, XD or whatever I'm sold on the safety and the immediacy of simply pulling the trigger.

 

[IndyBeerman]

I am a new carrier as well. I've been practicing my drawing on a regular basis, but I carry without one in the chamber for now.

If you are good, both methods can be ready to fire in under a second:
SNIP

One problem with this video....


It's staged, he knows what he's doing and when he's going to do it.

The Bad Guy isn't going to walk up to you and tap you on the shoulder and give you a heads up, or say to you, "My bad, need to give you a warning there Kilroy".

Because one will always have both hands available, right?

^^^^^This^^^^^


For all you fellers out there who think they are the direct decedent of Flash Gordon, here's a scenario......


You're walking from the grocery store to your car, parking lot is almost empty, you have a sack of groceries cradled in the left arm, gallon of milk in the right.

BG jumps out from behind a pickup between you and your car, and runs at you.

You better be able to do one of two things.....
Your direct ancestry to Flash Gordon will let you drop all these items to pull, rack, acquire and fire in less time that it takes the milk and groceries to hit the ground or.....

You better start running like a wide receiver running for a Hail Mary, or at least think you're as fast as Flash while running.

The first one gets you a better than 50% chance of being worm food, seriously injured or spending the rest of your life in a vegetative state.

The second odds are going to be better, but at least you have the chance to defend yourself.

 

[thebishopp]

You had better PRACTICE that maneuver a LOT, if you have any hope of using it in a real situation...

Even if he practices it A LOT. The sheer fact is that he can find himself in a very bad situation very quickly in the distances that most shootings are going to go down in. One never knows the skill level of the attacker he will be facing. He should not assume that it will always be less than his own.

Even if the attackers skill level IS less than his own, there is a reason why the "21 foot rule" came into existence. In the average time it takes for an officer (person) to recognize and react to a threat (draw and put two rounds center mass) that person can close the distance and kill or seriously injure said officer (person).

Note that a more recent study has actually determined some fallacy and "misinterpretation" (as pertinent to LEOs) in this.

Police One has a good article regarding a new study:

Edged Weapon Defense: Is or was the 21-foot rule valid? (Part 1)

It was discovered that the 21 foot rule was actually NOT sufficient for most people due to variable environmental as well as other factors.

It is a great read and not just applicable to law enforcement.

So if you really think you will be able to draw your weapon, rack the slide, and place the rounds exactly where you need them to go, in a SHTF situation you may want to think again. While it is great on the range the fact is that real life data more than just "suggests" otherwise. It's hard enough when a round is already in the chamber.

 

[jbrooks19]

Always one in the chamber... like my signature says "A empty gun is just an expensive paper weight"

If some one tries to harm you and you have to defend yourself, are you going to ask the attacker to "hold on while you cock your gun"? I promise he wont say "ok ill wait a minute"

 

[HICKMAN]

Roll however you see fit. Personally, I choose not to stick my head in the sand. Twenty + years experience in carrying a Glock, chamber always loaded, zero problems.

 

[HICKMAN]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syxrpLbaEuY

 

[Boost Lee]

That particular video & scenario were given a potential worst-case situation (with the attacker being within a 1-2-step reach distance).

I think 99.9% of anyone here that carry's +1 will commend another OC/CC'er that doesn't +1 just because having your firearm on your person
in a given situation is still more likely to benefit you versus not having one - But again, the said video posted above gives you a second chance
to really evaluate real-life situation and that no matter how well trained you are, you're likely to be caught off guard.

It's your decision...

 

[JusAdSumBellum]

Carry whats comfortable for you. I started out with out one in the chamber and now I always have one chambered.

Not that I want to open this can of worms but if your carrying open, I would recommend carrying one in the chamber. IMO, dont bust my balls for it.

If you want to see what the difference would be, grab a friend and some snap caps, do 25 push ups, and practice drawing racking the slide and firing versus just drawing and pulling the trigger. Make it competitive with your friend see who can get the fastest time out of the holster.

 

[IndianaSigma]

I agree that +1 is the way to go.

That being said, safety is my concern at this point as I am versed with shotguns, but new to handguns. I understand that in some cases you won't have time to rack and shoot or you won't have the left hand available to rack the slide.

My goal is to carry with one in the chamber, but I need to feel comfortable in doing so before I take the plunge. I've been carrying for a little over a month now and have started inching my way closer to carrying +1 while out of the house.

I haven't pulled the trigger accidentally since starting and am pretty comfortable with my trigger finger placement while drawing. I have a Sigma 40 and have gotten used to the heavy trigger and like it because it helps to avoid NDs and almost acts as a safety. I won't rely on that though! Just a nice feature for a newbie.

Oh....and that wasn't me in the video I posted BTW.

 

[IndianaSigma]

I also have started practicing this as well: (obviously not with a live round)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMsAvWOEj-k

 

[jeremy]

I am a new carrier as well. I've been practicing my drawing on a regular basis, but I carry without one in the chamber for now.

If you are good, both methods can be ready to fire in under a second:

Ever tried drawing a pistol under duress...
Would you like to bet which one you cannot do in under a second...

 

[Goodcat]

I always carry one in the pipe, unless I'm by random chance carrying stuffed into jeans pocket with no holster. Anytime I'm transporting the gun in any way, glove box etc, it's either in a holster with a round in the pipe or outside a holster without one.