Ron Paul NYT Editorial on Unconstitutional Killing

[Bummer]

If it quacks like a duck walks like a duck, then its a duck.
If he ran with terrorist, lived with terrorist, and trained with terrorist, then he gave up his US citizenship. He is fair game.

It's time to draw a line in the sand. You cross it, your no longer on our side.

Can you refer me to a source that indicates that he actually gave up his citizenship? I've been unable to find anything. Thanks.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

I don't have to provide evidence to dispute a number that he made up. That doesn't make any sense.

If I were to start up a thread saying "BitterClinger spends 7 hours per day watching 'Nailin Palin' and abusing himself", would you consider that to be fact until he provides us with cited research showing that he does not, in fact, do that? No. You wouldn't. The burden of proof would be on me because I made the assertion.

By the way, I agree with you that Muslims have been trying to force their religious views by force and violence for a very long time. I'm just annoyed that this yahoo is making up numbers and trying to pass them off as fact.

That's a different, yet fair, argument. I was pointing out that questioning the veracity of information is not the same as providing evidence disproving it. I'm not taking a position on the actual information because at the core whether it's 90% or 50% or 30% is irrelevent. A significant percentage of terrorist attacks are carried out by Islamic extremists. Arguing over how many people they kill or maim is failing to see the forest through the trees.

We've gotten somewhere. We agree on something.

At times?

I absolutely agree, though I do not consider Al Qur'an to be a "holy book".

For those who question this assessment, the Gutenberg Project has several versions available at no charge. Just search for "koran".

Whether you or I see it as a holy book or our holy book is irrelevent. Roughly 2 billion people on the planet view it as theirs.

Can you refer me to a source that indicates that he actually gave up his citizenship? I've been unable to find anything. Thanks.

Extraneous. There was a valid decision made, and he was provided with due process.

But if you like, there are two grounds. Swearing an oath to Al Queda and/or joining Al Queda and waging war aginst the US could both be grounds for renounciation. Would have to explore in depth more, and really don't care enough because he'd still be dead and the world is still a better place.

 

[steveh_131]

That's a different, yet fair, argument. I was pointing out that questioning the veracity of information is not the same as providing evidence disproving it. I'm not taking a position on the actual information because at the core whether it's 90% or 50% or 30% is irrelevent. A significant percentage of terrorist attacks are carried out by Islamic extremists. Arguing over how many people they kill or maim is failing to see the forest through the trees.

You're right that how many people they've killed is not relevant to this particular discussion, but it is extremely misleading in other directions and just a flat out lie. That's the only reason I called him out on it.

 

[steveh_131]

But if you like, there are two grounds. Swearing an oath to Al Queda and/or joining Al Queda and waging war aginst the US could both be grounds for renounciation. Would have to explore in depth more, and really don't care enough because he'd still be dead and the world is still a better place.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your viewpoint on this topic. I would like to ask, though: Why not provide him with a trial to determine this? Who gets the privilege of deciding which citizens don't deserve to be citizens any more?

I'm really just looking at the pros and cons here. He was executed. On the upside, he's dead. If he's guilty, then that's a good thing. On the other hand, what's wrong with executing him for his crimes after he receives a fair trial? Either way he ends up punished. Why not err on the side of preserving civil rights?

 

[Bummer]

Whether you or I see it as a holy book or our holy book is irrelevent. Roughly 2 billion people on the planet view it as theirs.

You sure can make it difficult for a guy to agree with you. Still, yet again I agree. (Somebody make a note.) Superstition seems to know no bounds.

Extraneous. There was a valid decision made, and he was provided with due process.

You've said this before. Then you explained that a Grand Jury need not be involved no matter what the Constitution says. I see that as a simple case of ignoring the Fifth Amendment.

But if you like, there are two grounds. Swearing an oath to Al Queda and/or joining Al Queda and waging war aginst the US could both be grounds for renounciation.

Either he said it or he didn't. I can't find anything that shows that he said it. I have found a number of sources stating that the Government can't just take it away. That's why I asked.

Would have to explore in depth more, and really don't care enough because he'd still be dead and the world is still a better place.

I fully agree that the world is better off without him. We certainly are. I've used his and Bin Laden's photos as targets before (not much - too small for the distances in question - I'm not-young and my vision's not all that good). We are not buddies. I do not defend their actions. All I'm troubled by are the unfortunate implications. Once upon a time words had meaning. The Constitution meant something. Not so much anymore. How long will you remain on the right side of that ever moving line?

 

[GREEN607]

Here it is, again, in his own words. Please read post #113.....

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ion/171416-another_one_bites_the_dust-12.html


Words still have meaning........

 

[rambone]

Here it is, again, in his own words.

Source?

 

[GREEN607]

Source?

Lazy boy......

Google it, like I did....... al-Awlaki 2002 speech, England

 

[mrjarrell]

I read the post. Didn't say anything about renunciation of citizenship. Just said he was going to fight against the US.

 

[steveh_131]

Lazy boy......

Google it, like I did....... al-Awlaki 2002 speech, England

Purported al-Awlaki message calls for jihad against U.S. - CNN

CNN could not authenticate the recording as being by al-Awlaki, but sources have told CNN that they believe the voice on the recording is him and that the recording is genuine.

 

[steveh_131]

I read the post. Didn't say anything about renunciation of citizenship. Just said he was going to fight against the US.

Sounds like possible treason.

Don't we normally have trials for treason?

 

[GREEN607]

Source?

Here's the text, and the video.......


Anwar al-Awlaki in his own words | World news | guardian.co.uk

 

[steveh_131]

Here's the text, and the video.......


Anwar al-Awlaki in his own words | World news | guardian.co.uk

So in this video does he renounce his citizenship? Not able to watch it at the moment, so if you'd like to quote what he said to this effect I'm sure people would appreciate it.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

I read the post. Didn't say anything about renunciation of citizenship. Just said he was going to fight against the US.

So in this video does he renounce his citizenship? Not able to watch it at the moment, so if you'd like to quote what he said to this effect I'm sure people would appreciate it.

You automatically renouce your citizenship when you join a foreign military force engaged in hostilities against the US. The law doesn't require an explicit declaration. It is implicit in the act.

 

[steveh_131]

You automatically renouce your citizenship when you join a foreign military force engaged in hostilities against the US. The law doesn't require an explicit declaration. It is implicit in the act.

So why have we historically provided traitors with trials?

 

[rambone]

So why have we historically provided traitors with trials?

Then we could hear the 2 required witness testimonies in open court.

I would really like to know if making YouTube videos and writing emails would qualify as giving aid & comfort.


U.S. Constitution :: Article III, Section 3
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

 

[Kagnew]

Ron Paul spews the same idiotic bull**** Obama did when he was running for President, had no security clearance, received no national security briefings, and had no actual knowledge of threats aginst this country. Obama found out that there really is evil in the world and that it's easier to complain when you have no access to information, just like Ron Paul would if he became President.

Failing to take action against enemy targets is an impeachable offense. In any event Paul demonstrates his lack of understanding of the authority of the role of the Commander in Chief and this editorial is proof why he is unfit to carry out its duties.

Bingo!

 

[GREEN607]

So in this video does he renounce his citizenship? Not able to watch it at the moment, so if you'd like to quote what he said to this effect I'm sure people would appreciate it.

My post, quoting it, is in my previous post giving the link to the other INGO thread "Another one bites the dust..."

Besides, my just posting it (again) would only be 'heresay'. Watch it for yourself.......

LOVE your new signature line, BTW....

 

[steveh_131]

My post, quoting it, is in my previous post giving the link to the other INGO thread "Another one bites the dust..."

Besides, my just posting it (again) would only be 'heresay'. Watch it for yourself.......

LOVE your new signature line, BTW....

Oh, ok. I read that CNN reported your earlier quote as part of an audiotape and they could never verify it as him.

I didn't realize that quote also appeared in this video.

ETA: Wait, he didn't renounce any citizenship in that quote. Does he renounce his citizenship somewhere in the video?

 

[Bitter Clinger]

I seek the truth, not the validation of my opinions. You should give it a try.

No, you ignore the truth unless it agrees with your distorted view of the world.

I see no point in continuing discourse with you. I have given you the facts about muslims waging holy war (I believe they call it "jihad"). You can examine what I have presented, or you can ignore it, it makes no difference to me.

Good day to you sir.