Robbery stopped by firearms instructor

[VUPDblue]

They weren't so badass when they had 2 dozen coppers ordering them out of the car at gunpoint. I will hand it to them that they had sense enough not to run or do anything stupid and simply gave up.

 

[stephen87]

Just saw this on 6 News, 1 against 3 multiple shots. Dirt balls are heading farther west everyday, time to wall off Raceway road, and make Marion county pay for it!

Let me get out of this ****hole first, then we'll wall it off.

Mayor Hogsett says he's not paying for it, but he's paying for it

The local news has a different take on "west" than the rest of us. For me it's west of 465. For the news-types it's west of Meridian St. This was east of Lynhurst so that's at least a half-mile east of 465.

Don't get me wrong, Raceway Road is the demarcation line. We may need a wall and a moat.

It's actually pretty close to 1 mile east of I465 and too damn close to where I live. Don't make me pay for this ****. I'm trying to leave.

 

[2A_Tom]

...teenagers ...with guns, ...firearms instructor ... masks... followed ....

...licensed ... firearm... drop ... man fired... gunfight ....


No one was hurt ....

DGU? or Zimmermanesque?

 

[Vigilant]

Let me get out of this ****hole first, then we'll wall it off.


It's actually pretty close to 1 mile east of I465 and too damn close to where I live. Don't make me pay for this ****. I'm trying to leave.

Step it up bud, I'm at Lowes now pricing brick and mortar! Then on to Ft. Liberty and Grey Wolf for more boolits!

 

[padawan]

Interesting difference between WTHR (NBC) and Fox59 reporting.

WTHR headline, "Teen Robbery Suspects. . . "
Fox headline, "2 Adults, 3 Juveniles . . . "

Kudos to Fox. I am SO TIRED of 18 and 19 year old criminals being referred to as "teens" by the media, like they 13 yr old kids or something.

On "ordering the suspects to drop their weapons," yeah my first reaction was - dumb call.

This isn't the movies. Not required. And, when you're outnumbered it potentially puts you farther behind the 8-ball than you already are.

Will be interesting to see what, if any, further details are reported.

WTHR is probably hoping they will have the opportunity to participate in a 'teen' diversion program to help turn their lives around. Apply purple.

 

[singlesix]

Well another example I can use when people ask me "why do you carrying all the time", funny thing I get asked this more by supposed "gun people".

 

[stephen87]

To all who think they live in a safe area most of the undesirables you see at the local wally are....well.....local.

I live in the area. They won't mess around near their homes. Trust me, I know this for a fact. Half of my complex is "low-income" the other portion is normal income. We very rarely see crime in the complex. In the 4 years I've been here, I've seen the cops in here one time. It was for a murder, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[stephen87]

Step it up bud, I'm at Lowes now pricing brick and mortar! Then on to Ft. Liberty and Grey Wolf for more boolits!

Looking at a few houses in Johnson County tonight. Give me until December.

 

[Vigilant]

Looking at a few houses in Johnson County tonight. Give me until December.

All construction takes a minute, you should be gtg still by December, but, make sure you have your shots up to date, and your papers in order if you're coming west to shop!

 

[churchmouse]

Shooting a moving/armed/human target when all jacked up on adrenaline is a hell of a lot more difficult than shooting paper or steel on a static range.

But I thank him for it, because now I have a response the next time someone on INGO talks **** about a cop shooting at and missing a bad guy.

I full well agree and do understand. That is why we train from target to target and not static on one directly in front of us.
This used to be called deer fever. Have the animal in sights with a clear shot and miss.
No one "wants" to shot a real live person. Well, no sane person does anyway.

 

[padawan]

You sound like you are preparing to GTFO!.

Had a friend that moved from the 'Grove to southern Johnson County just a couple years ago. He is glad he did. If I recall, there was an old episode of cops where they were speeding down Thompson road... Fun city!

You know you are hurting your fellow citizens by moving your 'tax base' out of the county. All those public services...

 

[NHT3]

Being in BBIs and Coach's last class would have been a good prep for this situation. Too bad most of y'all missed it..

 

[STEEL CORE]

You got it Double Helix, 9-1-1 Armed Robbery in progress at the BK, stay armed take cover and assist if needed, engage if lives threatened, I wasn't there, and we each react differently, but lets make it a circular wall about the size of the one in CHINA cause Fishers needs some protection nowadays too (IMHO).

 

[foszoe]

So, I don't see how yelling anything is re-setting the other guy's (or guys') OODA loop. It is a huge help in their Orient phase. They now have a specific target to orient on.

I've seen here on INGO and experienced for myself, that it takes more than a second to draw and shoot at a stationary target, and that's when you know you WILL shoot, WHERE your target is, and roughly WHEN to start.

If Iggy draws and shoots, after identifying the Tangos with the guns, he can do so in let's say 2 seconds, with a decent chance of staying inside their OODA loops. As soon as they either notice the draw or (more likely) hear the first shot, they are already behind his loop.

If Iggy draws and yells "Anything!" then he's kinda committed to waiting to see what happens. Yell "Freeze" and then start shooting without waiting to see if it works? That doesn't make sense. If you don't wait to see if they freeze, then why did you yell that? How long - a couple seconds? Then their OODA loop catches up. Frankly, that's probably what happened here IMHO. He didn't really want to shoot them, especially by surprise. That's a cold hearted thing to do.

So instead, he gave them a chance at a fair fight.

Yelling "GUN!" and immediately shooting is better for the OODA loop competition, but then I'm still left wondering why. Tactically, it seems better to have them surprised, trying to figure out who just shot - one of their own, or a bystander - which would mess with their Observation/Decision phases. Yelling a warning is drawing attention BEFORE it is necessary. Plus, everyone can see there's at least 1 gun. In this case, apparently 3.

More than anything, I think the issue is the out-numbered aspect. If it was a lone shooter, then I could buy it a little easier. THAT guy might see that he's lost the draw and give up. More than 1, that's a risky proposition with potentially fatal consequences.

That's my assessment based on currently available information.


Well, first he exponentially increased the threat of an innocent person getting hit by a miss, then the initial threats ran away.

Success was snatched from the jaws of defeat by what seems like luck.

Yeah. Yelling anything seems silly really. I could only see it in that one rare incident I described which means I never practice it because I am more in favor of the simplest solution which fits all. That means draw and shoot because if I take that action, I agree with you, my OODA has already decided I will either be dead or calling someone in your profession next

 

[T.Lex]

Yeah. Yelling anything seems silly really. I could only see it in that one rare incident I described which means I never practice it because I am more in favor of the simplest solution which fits all. That means draw and shoot because if I take that action, I agree with you, my OODA has already decided I will either be dead or calling someone in your profession next

I have been in situations where I am CC and thought something "not quite right" was going on. I moved around (got off the X, in case something did go down) and got a better view.

I can totally see going back into the restaurant/bank if I see a couple armed, masked guys go in. (If I'm by myself, there's a 50/50 I'd do that; if with family, we're getting in the car and being good witnesses.) But I'm STFU unless it really looks like shooting is going to start. If I can turn on my cell phone camera, I'm doing that, at least the recording. If they want the bills from the register, they can have 'em.

If they really start threatening, then they don't get a warning. IMHO.

 

[stephen87]

You sound like you are preparing to GTFO!.

Had a friend that moved from the 'Grove to southern Johnson County just a couple years ago. He is glad he did. If I recall, there was an old episode of cops where they were speeding down Thompson road... Fun city!

You know you are hurting your fellow citizens by moving your 'tax base' out of the county. All those public services...

There was a different episode of Cops that was recorded right around the corner from my mom and dad's house. As for "moving my tax base out of the county," I still work in Marion County. Johnson County is just more convenient, seeing as I also work in Bartholomew County.

 

[chipbennett]

They weren't so badass when they had 2 dozen coppers ordering them out of the car at gunpoint. I will hand it to them that they had sense enough not to run or do anything stupid and simply gave up.

This might be one of my favorite posts on INGO in quite some time.

Excellent work.

(What's with rep still having no points value? C'mon, Texians, fix it!)

 

[chipbennett]

DGU? or Zimmermanesque?

Okay, I'll bite: what, pray tell, is "Zimmermanesque" about this incident?

 

[chipbennett]

Being in BBIs and Coach's last class would have been a good prep for this situation. Too bad most of y'all missed it..

In Coach's class that I took, I never got the impression that he would have suggested for one of his students to follow a group of armed robbers into a robbery.

 

[stephen87]

Okay, I'll bite: what, pray tell, is "Zimmermanesque" about this incident?

According to WTHR, this "gun owning, permit having man" followed "teenagers that he thought were up to no good."