Rob Pincus - Appropriate Open Carry

[Rob Pincus]

More recent thoughts on OC:
Handgun Open Carry. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should... - RECOIL

 

[Birds Away]

So you want to tell us how to carry and, for support, you reference a magazine most noted for telling us what we should and should not be able to own?

I'm seeing a disturbing trend here.

 

[Cameramonkey]

More recent thoughts on OC:
Handgun Open Carry. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should... - RECOIL

Stop that! Stop using articles where logic and reason are backed up by multiple instructors and their professional opinions!

 

[the1kidd03]

Stop that! Stop using articles where logic and reason are backed up by multiple instructors and their professional opinions!

The argument for the advocacy of CC typically hinges on the assumption that the carrier will be a BYSTANDER and not the intended TARGET. Thus relying on the element of surprise, rather than preparing for BEING surprised yourself.


IME that's not typically the case. Even if I'm to be considered an exception to the rule of majority, I'm not willing to bet my life on that assumption. I prefer to simply be more aware of my positioning and surroundings. I'm that way naturally anyway and it sometimes bugs people when we're standing someplace talking and I'm not looking them in the eyes because I'm paying attention to what's going on around me.

More than once I've been brought into violent confrontations as a civilian while UNARMED at no fault of my own. Giving the same impression as I would if I were to CC (helpless, soft target.)

I've also been brought into defensive situations which warranted use of my gun, but NONE were directed attacks while out in public OCing. They were at homes.

I have specifically witnessed my OCing divert probable hostile situations several times. Of course, there's no way to prove this because what's the "thug" going to do? Say, "yeah, I was going to rob you until I noticed your gun." Doubtful.

Had I given the impression that I was unarmed, would I have been put into a position to defend myself? Would I have been dragged into yet another violent confrontation? Would I have been forced to utilize my weapon and possibly take a man's life? In a way it's almost as if the advocacy of CC is TRYING to get you into a violent confrontation from this perspective by giving the IMPRESSION that you're helpless.

Of course, the choice to OC or CC should not be based on the advice of others' preferences. They should be based on the individual's preference while weighing all of the pros and cons to each and their individual "style" such as level of training, level of awareness, etc.

 

[lovemachine]

More recent thoughts on OC:
Handgun Open Carry. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should... - RECOIL

I like what Pat Rogers says in that article:

“Heh, I gotta tell you the truth…I look at this as a double-edged sword. I think it’s good when people see legitimate people with guns. That’s a good thing. A down side to it is, some of the people that open carry use the term deterrent when they do it, as if seeing someone with a gun will keep the bad guy from committing a crime. Nothing could be further from the truth—bad guys commit crimes all the time in front of cops. Bad guys kill cops, and cops carry out in the open. I would never carry the gun openly…even in place where it was normal, like Arizona, people carry guns openly all the time…but I don’t like giving up the tactical advantage that is concealed carry. If I’m going to draw, if I’m going to get involved, it is going to be on my terms..if five guys with shotguns come in to take the place down, I’m not just going to engage them, I may just stand by and be a good witness. I carry concealed because if I’m going to act it has to be on my terms.”

"I carry concealed because if I'm going to act it has to be on my terms"

I love that!

 

[Josh Ward]

Of course, the choice to OC or CC should not be based on the advice of others' preferences. They should be based on the individual's preference while weighing all of the pros and cons to each and their individual "style" such as level of training, level of awareness, etc.

DING DING DING we have winner!!!

This is a free country, (at least its supposed to be) I tire of people trying to tell me how/where/why I should carry MY gun in the same manner they do, if I don't then I'm somehow wrong??

Before you hop up on your soap box and proclaim me one of those "professional training is stupid, I don't need it" clowns, think again. I have hundreds and hundreds of hours of training under some extremely sought after and knowledgable folks. I sorta know whats up. Based upon what I do for a living, I of all people know the value of being something from someone who knows more than I about the given subject matter. However, once the hows and whys ect are over, your reach into how I live my life stops.

 

[the1kidd03]

I like what Pat Rogers says in that article:



"I carry concealed because if I'm going to act it has to be on my terms"

I love that!

I liked what he said up until the point where he associated the LEO attacks with that of civilian.

Criminals have bad experiences with cops and therefore grow a pure disdain or hatred for them. Therefore, out of this they are likely to target LEOs simply because they are LEO and represent authority.

There is considerably more going on there and in these situations psychologically than people realize. Again, his statement relies upon not being the direct target, but a bystander.

 

[eldirector]

I like what Pat Rogers says in that article:



"I carry concealed because if I'm going to act it has to be on my terms"

I love that!

Again, making the assumption that you are not the intended target.

As thekidd03 mentioned, it is NOT on your own terms if the bad Guy intentionally targets you.

I believe that there are WAY too many generalizations in this thread, especially around bad Guy behavior. There are MANY motivations for committing violent crimes. Some may be deterred by looking like a hard target (Open carrying), some may never be deterred (the nut-job that specifically wants to KILL YOU - armed or not). There is a HUGE range in the middle. Saying that a specific method of carry is perfect for all circumstances is flatly impossible.

I absolutely value the informed opinion of Rob and others. I differ on some points, and agree on others. Where I flatly disagree is when ANYONE tries to force their opinion on ANYONE else. Voice it, back it up with facts, argue it well, and then SWAY ME. Thump your chest and insult me, and I'll just hit mute and walk away.

Sign... I can't believe I finally posted in this thread. I was doing SO WELL out staying out of it!

 

[MCgrease08]

Allow me too add some fuel to this fire:

"A NYC EMT is being hailed as a hero for wrestling a gun away from a crazed man
who had grabbed it from an*NYPDofficer and shot the officer's partner in front of a Harlem hospital.*

NYPD Officers Fausto Gomez and John Chiodi escorted*Guiteau Idore, 43, to the hospital Monday for a psychiatric evaluation after he was caught tossing bottles at people on E. 117th St and Lenox Ave., reports theNew York Daily News.*As the officers loaded Idore out of an ambulance, the suspect began to flee.

During a struggle, Idore grabbed Chiodi's gun and fired two shots at Gomez.EMT Brendan Hernandez, 25, was helping unload Idore and quickly tackled the man and wrestled away the officer's gun. He then began giving Gomez life-saving treatment."

EMT Tackles Gunman, Saves NYPD Cop - News - POLICE Magazine

 

[David Rose]

Just out of curiosity does anyone know of any nationally know instructors who advocate for open carry over concealed carry?

 

[Rhoadmar]

Allow me too add some fuel to this fire:

"A NYC EMT is being hailed as a hero for wrestling a gun away from a crazed man
who had grabbed it from an*NYPDofficer and shot the officer's partner in front of a Harlem hospital.*

NYPD Officers Fausto Gomez and John Chiodi escorted*Guiteau Idore, 43, to the hospital Monday for a psychiatric evaluation after he was caught tossing bottles at people on E. 117th St and Lenox Ave., reports theNew York Daily News.*As the officers loaded Idore out of an ambulance, the suspect began to flee.

During a struggle, Idore grabbed Chiodi's gun and fired two shots at Gomez.EMT Brendan Hernandez, 25, was helping unload Idore and quickly tackled the man and wrestled away the officer's gun. He then began giving Gomez life-saving treatment."

EMT Tackles Gunman, Saves NYPD Cop - News - POLICE Magazine

Sorry' I'm a bit lost on this one. As an ocing citizen I don't think it likely I would be arresting a bottle throwing lunatic and transporting them to a hospital for psychiatric evaluation.

 

[MCgrease08]

Sorry' I'm a bit lost on this one. As an ocing citizen I don't think it likely I would be arresting a bottle throwing lunatic and transporting them to a hospital for psychiatric evaluation.

Just pointing it out as a recent gun grabbing incident.

 

[the1kidd03]

Again, making the assumption that you are not the intended target.

As thekidd03 mentioned, it is NOT on your own terms if the bad Guy intentionally targets you.

I believe that there are WAY too many generalizations in this thread, especially around bad Guy behavior. There are MANY motivations for committing violent crimes. Some may be deterred by looking like a hard target (Open carrying), some may never be deterred (the nut-job that specifically wants to KILL YOU - armed or not). There is a HUGE range in the middle. Saying that a specific method of carry is perfect for all circumstances is flatly impossible.

I absolutely value the informed opinion of Rob and others. I differ on some points, and agree on others. Where I flatly disagree is when ANYONE tries to force their opinion on ANYONE else. Voice it, back it up with facts, argue it well, and then SWAY ME. Thump your chest and insult me, and I'll just hit mute and walk away.

Sign... I can't believe I finally posted in this thread. I was doing SO WELL out staying out of it!

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Boost Lee]

I do not like to over analyze the subject, to be honest.

There are extremists on both ends of the table and eventually, we have to agree to disagree.

Admittedly, My first year of carrying a firearm, I spent a solid 6 months open carrying for the sole purpose of seeing how
the public persona trended when seeing a firearm in public. Not one problem.
Grocery shopping, headed to the range, going to visit family, pumping gas, I didn't think twice about it once I became comfortable with it.

Where I believe logical anti-OC'ers begin to have a problem is when they see an open carried weapon in a poorly retentioned or cheap holster with zero situational awareness......... And I couldn't agree more.

My point? If you DO decide to carry openly in a public environment where it's legal to do so,
Just remember - The average sheeple now see a man with a gun carrying groceries to his car, or a man with a gun going into a gas station.
I don't mean to be so blunt, but I do when I say......... don't look like a slob or questionable character.

Don't wear sagging pants and a sleeveless shirt that say's "I HAVE A GUN AND I'M NOT AFRAID TO USE IT".

I would only hope that ALL of us would have no problem with open carry as long as the individual is trained and prepared as best as he or she can be.
(Both mentally for confrontations and physically in case a heated situation arises).

I rarely open carry anymore... but I respect all that do as long as it's done responsibly.

Most all of these instructors responses run right up the alley of how I feel now that I've been carrying for years.
Handgun Open Carry. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should... - RECOIL

 

[the1kidd03]

Allow me too add some fuel to this fire:

"A NYC EMT is being hailed as a hero for wrestling a gun away from a crazed man
who had grabbed it from an*NYPDofficer and shot the officer's partner in front of a Harlem hospital.*

NYPD Officers Fausto Gomez and John Chiodi escorted*Guiteau Idore, 43, to the hospital Monday for a psychiatric evaluation after he was caught tossing bottles at people on E. 117th St and Lenox Ave., reports theNew York Daily News.*As the officers loaded Idore out of an ambulance, the suspect began to flee.

During a struggle, Idore grabbed Chiodi's gun and fired two shots at Gomez.EMT Brendan Hernandez, 25, was helping unload Idore and quickly tackled the man and wrestled away the officer's gun. He then began giving Gomez life-saving treatment."

EMT Tackles Gunman, Saves NYPD Cop - News - POLICE Magazine

Again, association of the responsibilities of LEO to that of a civilian who does not dawn a badge of authority.

Pointless for civilians because it presents an entire world of other topics which are never investigated for anyone to determine a reasonable solution to this entire debate.

 

[griffin]

man who had grabbed it from an NYPDofficer

Curious what type of holster the cop was using. I have a hard time seeing how someone could disarm a cop wearing an SLS, especially if it is a level III version.

 

[sharkey]

Sounds like they need UBCs there, so the transfer of a firearm from the cop to the crazy man would have been rejected.

 

[cedartop]

Curious what type of holster the cop was using. I have a hard time seeing how someone could disarm a cop wearing an SLS, especially if it is a level III version.

I didn't see where it said he snatched it from the holster.

 

[ATM]

Seems that Mr. Pincus may be finished with the discussion here except to pass out thanks for any kudos thrown his way and to link elsewhere to others who opine similarly against carrying if it's not concealed.

It's a shame to leave so much commentary hanging unsupported and unanswered.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Seems that Mr. Pincus may be finished with the discussion here except to pass out thanks for any kudos thrown his way and to link elsewhere to others who opine similarly against carrying if it's not concealed.

It's a shame to leave so much commentary hanging unsupported and unanswered.

I think he may have broken his stick

Im done as well. Lets talk about something less contentious like abortion or something.