- Sep 3, 2009
- 7,726
- 38
Because you are required by law to carry the license when you are carrying the weapon. I have never called in or ran a computer check when presented with a permit.
Thanks for the answer j706.
Because you are required by law to carry the license when you are carrying the weapon. I have never called in or ran a computer check when presented with a permit.
Ummm...I think I answered both of those questions.
j706 said:As for your last question any break you might have got will be null and void. The title 9 statutes are huge. A person that knowingly gives a officer a hard time in the performance of their duties...well you will get what you get.
j706 said:I do not take being lied to very well. And it seems that most of the people I deal with had rather lie than breath.
Ok i see you edited your post after I read it initially.
So it looks like what you're saying is that if you are challenged in any way the only thing you can do is to use the traffic code to punish someone by finding obscure/petty infractions & charging them with that. Ah, got it. Thanks
It seems like you might want to do a little reflection on why that is. I'm a fairly law-abiding person & I really don't want to tell a cop I have a gun because of the reaction that could occur. Is that my fault? Maybe it's because if you give an answer that a cop doesn't like then as you said, "The title 9 statutes are huge."
OK.. but "fairly law abiding" citizens don't lie to the police when asked a legitimate legal question. The outcome of your interaction is based largely upon on how you act. I am very easy to get along with, I just ask for the same in return. All I ask for is a little bit of cooperation and some honesty. I won't lie to you. Is that asking to much?
Common courtesy does not include answering potentially incriminating questions. I say as little as possible.
OK.. but "fairly law abiding" citizens don't lie to the police when asked a legitimate legal question that is relevent to the situation &/or that they are required by law to answer.
The outcome of your interaction is based largely upon on how you act. I am very easy to get along with, I just ask for the same in return. All I ask for is a little bit of cooperation and some honesty. I won't lie to you. Is that asking to much?
It seems like you might want to do a little reflection
There, I finished it for you.
So, honestly, have you ever lied to a suspect to get them to confess to something they otherwise wouldn't have?
Have you ever lied to ANYBODY? EVER? If so then you deserve no more respect than you showed them.
This whole thing started by me simply asking if I had to tell a LEO if there was a weapon in the vehicle during a traffic stop. It took several posts before a (I assume) LEO answered the question directly (thanks vitamink). The rest were obtuse answers containing either threats or appeals to my honor to not lie.
Look, the whole point of this is that many people are intimidated by the police & for good reason. People think they HAVE TO answer questions such as "do you have any guns in the vehicle". Unless given a reason to be otherwise I will interact with any police in a respectful manner just as I would when dealing with any other member of the public. NO MORE, NO LESS. A cop doesn't get any more respect just by the position/job they hold than anyone else. If cops want respect they have to give it. Statements like "The title 9 statutes are huge. A person that knowingly gives a officer a hard time in the performance of their duties...well you will get what you get" or "the outcome of your interaction is based largely upon on how you act" shows the arrogance that some cops have & the willingness to use the power given them to harm me further than they would have had i just submitted to their authority. This in a simple interaction in which I just suggested that I would not answer an irrelevent question or would lie about a legal action that caused no harm or threat of harm to the LEO.
The big difference LP is that in Walmart, you are just a citizen exercising your rights.
On a Traffic stop you are now a subject of a crime and therefore detained until the citation is issued, verbal warning, or charged with a subsequent crimes. IE Bench warrant for FTA.
In the traffic stop case the detaining officer has the right to protect himself or herself just as you do in Walmart
I'll add one last thing because everyone gets worked up on getting pulled over for speeding... You are the one with your foot on the gas peddle, if you don't want to get stopped for traffic violations obey the rules of the road, do a walk around of your vehicle everyday to ensure all lights and signals work. If you follow these simple rules then you won't have any interaction with the police officers.
vitamink, i see your point and agree somewhat. but what (i think) some of the guys are saying is that it hardly seems right that a LEO can find a reason to arrest you/tow your car/ etc simply because you know your rights. If I show you my LTCH and DL, why should I have to hand over the weapon? You can't demand my weapon if I am OCing at Walmart, right? You can only ask for my LTCH.
maybe i'm reading all this wrong.....happened before.
I understand that this is the internet, and context is not the same as if you were speaking in person.
Dude I just have to say to you that in this thread you are coming across as a total dillhole, I mean really if you are stopped by the police for any reason and you are not going to cooperate how do you think that in any way is going to help your situation?
It's a simple question that the officer asks you for his protection. Everyone here on this board in one form or another has a plan on how to get home to the family in an emergency. Police on traffic stops do that every day, it's not a WHAT IF, it's a real LIFE. When the officer approaches any vehicle anything can happen.
Most good officers can tell how a traffic stop is going to go just based on the persons body language before they even approach the vehicle and once the communication starts that's when they are trying to determine if there is more here than simple speeding.
Don't confuse arrogance with discretion. As I believe I have made clear, if you decide to play games during your LEO interaction, be prepared to pay the price. That is just the way the game is played my friend.
And no I don't think I am perfect. Far from it. But I think honesty is always best. Sorry that you seem to disagree.
Any officer in Indianapolis who has been on the street for at least 2 years has been shot at, so guns make them nervous.
Police don't know who you are as a person, let alone if you just lost job, or caught your wife in some hot front-door-back-door action with 2 beech grove officers and are about to begin your shooting spree.
People get locked up on traffic stops due to misinformation gleaned from the internet and most of the people on here don't want that to happen to you. When people give legal information on here they are giving you a black and white based on the information provided but they don't give you the full logic tree of "if this-then that". The problem, however, is that interactions with the police are dynamic and ever evolving based on the situation. Lets go back to that traffic stop and assume you weren't driving recklessly but you were speeding or made some minor traffic violation. The police officer approaches and states "the reason i stopped you is for speeding, are there any weapons in the car" You reply "i'll keep my hands on the wheel, there is an XD on my hip and my LTCH is in my wallet", You may get a ticket, you may not. Change the scenario. You are approached by the same officer only this time you reply "i know my rights". Now that officer is likely to want to get in your car and find out what you're hiding and he's going to look for anything to tow your vehicle, which isn't hard by the way. Now he asks you to step out of the vehicle. You are upset because the internet told you he can't search if you don't consent or if you're not going to jail. Now you have a ticket (probably multiple) and your vehicle gets an inventory search and your gun is taken to the property room. Revisit the same situation and the officer tells you to step out of the vehicle, you refuse to comply referring to the officer as a jack booted thug, and reply BILLYJOEBOB72 on INGO says..... Police interactions can go downhill really quickly.
Now your second statement is an example of what i was talking about earlier. Nothing is as easy as 2+2=4. What i mean is, given the situation you have described, no, there is nothing wrong with you OCing at walmart. If a cop sees you OCing he shouldn't take your gun from you. Now lets add some variables. You are currently CCing at walmart and someone calls the police stating there is a guy planning on robbing the walmart wearing ......... the police are gonna get there point guns at you and prone you out given the info they've received. You don't know this info so you assume that this is one of the jack booted thugs freaking out over you having a gun and tell him to f off as you know your rights...you then go to jail.
"I do not answer questions without my attorney present."
If the officer then decides to be an a-hole and make things hard on me because I know my rights, then maybe my attorney will get to meet him. Believe me, I'm always looking for a legal way to make a few bucks. Feel free to make it as easy as possible.
I'm not going to argue by the side of the road; I'm not going to resist any orders by the side of the road. But you can rest assured EVERY SINGLE word and action will be scrutinized later in depth, by an attorney who loves to stick it to the police whenever he gets the chance.
Take that as you will.