Property tax needs to be repealed / abolished NOW! (Morgan Co info here)

[Cavman]

No hard times here. Many folks find ways to be successful even during hard economic times.

Well congrats too you, guess all the others that will be struggling are just out of luck huh?

 

[phylodog]

We did not have kids. So does that mean I can get a refund for all the school money I put in for the last 20+ years?

Shouldn't have been paying for it in the first place. If we're adhering to direct beneficiaries paying for the services they use which seems to have been the primary justification for the current system.

 

[Ingomike]

I am drawing a LE pension but it is not part of PERF and is/was a self funded and managed plan.

Got it.

I believe you are way overestimating the average services received by rural property owners as well. I don't agree that I should bear any more financial responsibility for the roads adjacent to my property than any of the other 100 people who drive down them daily.

And the fact folks here have little idea what their tax dollars go for does not make the services worth less. If there was no road how would you get to your property? How would you get to town? Those others are generally accessing some property nearby, they certainly are not on there way to Alaska. Do you use roads in other folks areas? That is how it works.

I have a creek on my property which drains naturally, it feeds in to white river a mile downstream and has been doing so for a lot longer than human beings were constructing wooden houses on this continent.

You do not know that for fact. Many of what we call creeks and streams were dug out by our ancestors to drain the land for farming. That creek also could be a part of the county managed drains.

The neighboring farmer just paid well over $150,000 to have drainage tile installed which included a portion through my pasture so I find it challenging to justify taxes for drainage. Are drainage requirements a reality for the county?

There is the county drainage system and private. Go look at the watersheds your county manages.

Hamilton County Indiana GeoHub

Data Download Portal

geohub.hamiltoncounty.in.gov

Sure, but if my property doesn't benefit from them why should I bear any more responsibility for them than someone renting an apartment in town?

There are no doubt governmental services which benefit rural property "owners" like myself. However, those services are dramatically, drastically reduced compared to the services we utilized when we lived in the burbs.

That is why if you are not in an incorporated area you do not pay the town or city tax.

Schools should absolutely not be funded by property taxes under the current system. I've heard several times how unfair it would be to tax non property owners for things which benefit property owners exclusively. I don't have a problem with that but let's begin applying the same rules to everything. My daughter graduated last year, considering the portion of my taxes going to fund the school system my property taxes should have dropped by 60% this year.

I am torn on this one, because property tax funding keeps it local for the community to control but I’d prefer the cost not be on property.

I've stated many times, this country has never been short on creative ways to tax. My taxes currently fund more programs that I would opt out of if given a choice than programs the government should actually be engaging in. I don't want to pay for abortions, free anything but outbound plane tickets for illegals, I don't want to pay for someone else's kid's college loans, I don't want to pay for any more of Ukraine's ******** nor have I ever wanted one red cent of money I earned to go to the likes of ****ing Iran. But here we are.

There is not a single thing in this relevant to property tax.

A system which does not allow for actual, legitimate ownership of property is not a system based on freedom and no one but the government actually owns anything. That is ******** and the fact that it has been this way forever doesn't change the fact that it's still ********. It needs to change and I honestly do not care how they collect the taxes needed to pay for the 85% useless government or whether they collect them at all. I suspect the entire annual revenue generated by Indiana property couldn't cast a shadow on the 34 trillion dollars in, let’s call it uncollected taxes our government has created out of thin air. The system doesn't have to work this way and 100% of the time I'll side with the people over the government, at least the government we have today. 85% of the government, from the townships up to the White House could vanish tomorrow and this country would be better off for it.

More mostly not property tax issues. When you were in LE were you useless government or valuable service? I say valuable service.

 

[phylodog]

Got it.


And the fact folks here have little idea what their tax dollars go for does not make the services worth less. If there was no road how would you get to your property? How would you get to town? Those others are generally accessing some property nearby, they certainly are not on there way to Alaska. Do you use roads in other folks areas? That is how it works.


You do not know that for fact. Many of what we call creeks and streams were dug out by our ancestors to drain the land for farming. That creek also could be a part of the county managed drains.


There is the county drainage system and private. Go look at the watersheds your county manages.

Hamilton County Indiana GeoHub

Data Download Portal

geohub.hamiltoncounty.in.gov

That is why if you are not in an incorporated area you do not pay the town or city tax.


I am torn on this one, because property tax funding keeps it local for the community to control but I’d prefer the cost not be on property.


There is not a single thing in this relevant to property tax.


More mostly not property tax issues. When you were in LE were you useless government or valuable service? I say valuable service.

Your claim of superior knowledge means nothing in spite of you believing it's strengthening your position. If you've shared your credentials elswehere and I've missed it I apologize but I've seen no evidence of a more thorough understanding coming from you than from anyone else in the thread.

And you don't know that the government had anything to do with it. This house was built in 1910 and the family that built it still lives around here. I've spoken to four different generations who grew up in this house and they've all played in that creek. No shortage of arrowheads laying alongside it either which don't typically pop up in ditches. There was a covered bridge on my property at one point but it was torn down in the 70's.

I'm aware of the county drainages. Part of my property is in a flood plain which was created by the county. Really pissed off the prior owners as they had a house on that section. County came in, raised road and the fourth time the place flooded to the window sills they walked away from it. HUD came in, dug a hole and buried the house.

I thought property taxes were capped at 1%? If I'm capped at 1% and the people in town are capped at 1% I don't see where I'm not paying less. I'm open to education on this one.

I have a much larger issue with how much school funding is collected and spent than I do with how that collection is taken. I know the benefit of a good public school system, this country had one back before the U.S.D.E. existed.

It's a discussion about taxes. You claim there is no other way, I disagree and there are plenty of examples of ridiculous taxes and collection systems.

How is it not a property tax issue when people lose their homes if they are unable to pay the man? How is that freedom to actually own anything?

 

[Ingomike]

Shouldn't have been paying for it in the first place. If we're adhering to direct beneficiaries paying for the services they use which seems to have been the primary justification for the current system.

There is no historical context. Do you have any idea why our ancestors set up schools together and funded them? They liked the efficiency of hiring teachers so they could be productive and teachers could teach more than most parents could so there was a big gain in knowledge. They further believed that an educated society was a productive society and that the educated would also do less harm to those with property.

I have spent thousands educating others kids like Bob has but do not begrudge it because I see benefit to society. We often complain about the antics of uneducated mongrels just imagine if there were even more…

 

[Ingomike]

Your claim of superior knowledge means nothing in spite of you believing it's strengthening your position. If you've shared your credentials elswehere and I've missed it I apologize but I've seen no evidence of a more thorough understanding coming from you than from anyone else in the thread.

I will let my posts speak for themselves.

And you don't know that the government had anything to do with it. This house was built in 1910 and the family that built it still lives around here. I've spoken to four different generations who grew up in this house and they've all played in that creek. No shortage of arrowheads laying alongside it either which don't typically pop up in ditches. There was a covered bridge on my property at one point but it was torn down in the 70's.

I didn’t say government, I said our ancestors. That area was settled about 200 years ago so they are relative newcomers, been there about half the time since settlement so there is about a hundred years before them. Arrow heads can wash from the small burial mounds but I have no idea on your particular situation. Be great to have a picture of that. Maybe the historical society?

I thought property taxes were capped at 1%? If I'm capped at 1% and the people in town are capped at 1% I don't see where I'm not paying less. I'm open to education on this one.

Simple, you do not pay town or city taxes if you are not in their jurisdiction. The 1% is a max, not the tax. Many homes are taxed less than the 1# max.

I have a much larger issue with how much school funding is collected and spent than I do with how that collection is taken. I know the benefit of a good public school system, this country had one back before the U.S.D.E. existed.

DOE has little to do with local education.

It's a discussion about taxes. You claim there is no other way, I disagree and there are plenty of examples of ridiculous taxes and collection systems.

There must be some tax to pay for property services. How and who pays are open questions.

How is it not a property tax issue when people lose their homes if they are unable to pay the man? How is that freedom to actually own anything?

This has existed as long as there has been a tax.

 

[KLB]

And the fact folks here have little idea what their tax dollars go for does not make the services worth less. If there was no road how would you get to your property? How would you get to town? Those others are generally accessing some property nearby, they certainly are not on there way to Alaska. Do you use roads in other folks areas? That is how it works.

Neither do you obviously.

 

[firecadet613]

Well congrats too you, guess all the others that will be struggling are just out of luck huh?

I'd be industrious instead of just ******** and moaning. If property taxes are such an issue, find a way to pay them without them being such a burden on yourself, since you can't get the system changed. Find a way to WIN!

25 pages of very limited viable solutions offered, reps not responding, and other excuses. It's been shared (many times) how low and reasonable Indiana property taxes are compared to the majority of the other states...yet here we are.

 

[jamil]

Pay for what you use.

To use my personal favorite as the example, the county drainage system may not even touch your property in any way you understand but it is there benefiting most if not all property. The owner is not paying for specific drainage, that is the owners responsibility, but the system that moves that water once it leaves is maintained by the county. How does this get billed by what you use?

To say that police and fire should be per use ignores that they are on constant standby. How does that get billed? How about the county courts? How do they get billed? If it is per use the they might as well be privatized, but then the people wouldn’t elect them.

If you're going to talk about it, at least represent it the way I did. I posted at least two or three times and explained how it works. And this isn't it.

There are common government expenses that can't really be individualized. Spread that cost across consumers of government by classification of uses. Home owners would obviously be taxed less than businesses. And of course slum lords will be taxed to oblivion. Just kidding about that one.

And then individualized services are billed individually.

Either way, tax rates are determined by consumption. Even your precious drainage is consumed. Both individually and collectively. Police and fire are consumed both individually and collectively. Also, service density needs to be factored in. Someone out in the country little use for drainage compared with urban dwellers. Let the people who collectively need it pay for it.

I want a fairer system that taxes people based on their consumption of government rather than some arbitrary thing that is taxed, like property. Or income. But, I understand that not everyone can afford the government they consume. So I think people should be able to apply for financial hardship exemptions that reduce their burden.

That cronies wouldn't go for this doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

Let’s see if we can get some discussion here instead of whining…

People have a right to complain about this. If someone who could afford their taxes before now can't after a new assessment, and it costs them their property, that's not a system that is serving the people.

To the extent that property value affects one's assessment, that has nothing to do with expenses or consumption. Real estate is a fickle ****. In booms, the people get ****ed. In busts, the government gets ****ed.

 

[firecadet613]

People have a right to complain about this. If someone who could afford their taxes before now can't after a new assessment, and it costs them their property, that's not a system that is serving the people.

Look at Illinois. THEY have a property tax issue, not us. Compared to the rest of the country, we have nothing to be complaining about.

To the extent that property value affects one's assessment, that has nothing to do with expenses or consumption. Real estate is a fickle ****. In booms, the people get ****ed. In busts, the government gets ****ed.

The system was capped under Daniels and the caps are still working. There is no perfect system.

If .gov found a different way to raise funds and eliminated the property tax, some would win and some would lose. It's inevitable.

 

[jamil]

I'd be industrious instead of just ******** and moaning. If property taxes are such an issue, find a way to pay them without them being such a burden on yourself, since you can't get the system changed. Find a way to WIN!

Oh. Well why don't you just make more money? WTF?

I'm not happy about paying property taxes. No one is. Or, Idunno, maybe you're an outlier. But I cut the check for this years tax bill, and I'm thankful to be in a position where it's not a financial hardship. I've been in financial hardships in my life. It's not something everyone can just will themselves out of.

You come off as blaming the people who are complaining about burdensome property taxes for not making as much money as you do, and that if they did, presumably they'd love property taxes as much as you do.

25 pages of very limited viable solutions offered, reps not responding, and other excuses. It's been shared (many times) how low and reasonable Indiana property taxes are compared to the majority of the other states...yet here we are.

What's worse? Whining about taxes or whining about people whining about taxes? I submit it's the latter.

These 25 pages of what you think is limited viable solutions is also littered with a lot of chicken **** whining about people expressing legitimate complaints about how the property tax policy affects them.

Contrary to a couple of posters' opinion in this thread, a complaint about how things work do not need to be justified by being accompanied with a solution. People get to say, "This policy sucks, and I'd really like it to change, because it's making my life harder than it needs to be."

And if you don't like to read people complaining about property taxes, it's not like the title of the thread is deceiving. That's why god made the scroll bar on a browser.

 

[d.kaufman]

 

[jamil]

Look at Illinois. THEY have a property tax issue, not us. Compared to the rest of the country, we have nothing to be complaining about.

It's faulty logic to claim that because you can find someone worse off, our system can't be made to work for more people. At least let's not make this cause people to lose their homes.

The system was capped under Daniels and the caps are still working. There is no perfect system.

Not really. Because assessments are in part based on market valuation, the housing inflation is inflating people's property taxes beyond what they should be.

If .gov found a different way to raise funds and eliminated the property tax, some would win and some would lose. It's inevitable.

This sounds a lot like neener neener I win and you lose. The problem isn't who makes out better than others. It's that taxing property affects people on fixed incomes to the point where it's a financial hardship. Flippantly saying that, well, they should just make more money. I can be flippant too. The county can just go have a ****ing bake sale.

 

[Cavman]

I'd be industrious instead of just ******** and moaning. If property taxes are such an issue, find a way to pay them without them being such a burden on yourself, since you can't get the system changed. Find a way to WIN!

25 pages of very limited viable solutions offered, reps not responding, and other excuses. It's been shared (many times) how low and reasonable Indiana property taxes are compared to the majority of the other states...yet here we are.

Yea. Sorry there rockafeller... some of us do work hard budget and pay our bills, save etc but still can't be the barons of the Midwest as yourself. Like a good majority of people I bought my home I looked at tax history of my house. Looked at how they adjusted over the years. Nothing crazy or that would scream you'll be raped later by assessments. But now the system is completely messed up thanks to govt interference these past few years and the complete bs lie of 1%... assessed by a govt that causesed the prices to skyrocket... so yea, ill bitch and moan and write and call my state rep and bitch and mom and give him suggestions how I think we should change it. But glad you are doing so genuinely well that you it doesnt effect you and the rest of the chamber of commerce

 

[jamil]

Not going to happen and I'm A'OK with them having a surplus. Hard times are sure to come.

Look at our neighbors to the west, huge deficits with even larger property tax bills...

Oh, this sounds a whole lot like advocacy. Mike, who is definitely not advocating for it, but is only explaining how things are, even loves it.

 

[jamil]

And hard times like people not being able to afford the property taxes that are rising?

Oh, you're just complaing to complain. Those people on hard times should just make more money. Then you can afford ANY tax the government wants you to pay. And if they raise your taxes because the county commissioner needs some fancy suits and first class tickets to schmooze-fests, just make extra money so you can pay for it.

 

[jamil]

Not true at all. If you one the land you have a deed on file with the county. You have a sheriff. You have a surveyor and drainage board. And of course schools to name a few.

Can you at least admit that rural properties consume far less government than urban properties? Property taxes should be far less. But because people in the country often own more land than people in the city, they get taxed more money for fewer consumed services.

 

[d.kaufman]

Can you at least admit that rural properties consume far less government than urban properties? Property taxes should be far less. But because people in the country often own more land than people in the city, they get taxed more money for fewer consumed services.

But......drainage....lol

 

[jamil]

We did not have kids. So does that mean I can get a refund for all the school money I put in for the last 20+ years?

Property taxes should certainly not fund schools. Presumably the community benefits from schools in that it educates the leaders of tomorrow. Or some such nonsense.

Public schools will not go away. it's just a fixture for now. I think they need to be funded differently. Maybe have more bake sales?

It's certainly not fair for an elderly couple who don't have as much stake in the future as parent aged adults to have to pay high taxes to pay for schools.

 

[jamil]

But......drainage....lol

I mean, I've lived on dirt roads with nothing but mostly farm land and homesteads. Drainage? Well, there's the culverts that the local farmers put in.