Property tax needs to be repealed / abolished NOW! (Morgan Co info here)

[Cavman]

More whining without an discussion of the issue…

From what I've read people have discussed and proposed tons of alternatives for issue of excessive taxes. From my myself included.

 

[firecadet613]

From what I've read people have discussed and proposed tons of alternatives for issue of excessive taxes. From my myself included.

Have you reached out to your reps and let them know as well?

 

[Cavman]

Have you reached out to your reps and let them know as well?

Yes. Even stated on here many times about the 0 response from reps on it. O'l Zimmerman from north Vernon.

 

[Ingomike]

From what I've read people have discussed and proposed tons of alternatives for issue of excessive taxes. From my myself included.

Then let’s have a discussion of your ideas then. I don’t see any posts from you with ideas to replace the tax and or what specific programs paid for with property tax dollars should be eliminated. I just posted some thoughts on a couple of proposals that have been posted.

To solve this conservatives must come together with solid ideas, ideas the left cannot pervert to make things worse.

 

[phylodog]

So now we're down to "you should pay your property taxes because without the government your land wouldn't exist" lol

 

[Cavman]

Then let’s have a discussion of your ideas then. I don’t see any posts from you with ideas to replace the tax and or what specific programs paid for with property tax dollars should be eliminated. I just posted some thoughts on a couple of proposals that have been posted.

Replace the tax? Why replace? Let's gut the state spending. Eliminate all referendums. You can go line by line through the state and cut and cut and cut. We have billions in surplus. Why? Cause we are over taxed. Shouldn't the state break even? Its not the states job to make money. Cut all salaries, freeze new hires. Cut social programs, quit the policy of if ya dont spend all your budget for your dept ya might lose it. That just encourages waste. Aduit the living g hell out of every state dept. The state drives newer vehicles and rotates them out for newer. Make them drive 20 year old vehicles. The schools? Make a law limiting their admin people. Why do the need 10 people in the admin making 90k or more? Roads? We pay registration, tire tax, a sales tax on gas and a gas tax that goes up. Why? Cause no one ever questions the d.o.t why they need they money. Ya wanna keep property tax? Okay. Then how about just limiting it to the original assessed value? Like its been stated over and over and over. Why should our govt grow non stop while the people don't?

 

[Ingomike]

So now we're down to "you should pay your property taxes because without the government your land wouldn't exist" lol

Didn’t you make your living and your pension from property taxes?

 

[phylodog]

Didn’t you make your living and your pension from property taxes?

Stayed at a Holiday Inn once or twice as well. Please, do tell how my pension works and is/was funded. Be sure to include how a widowed old man in Marion County who owns 5 acres of vacant land should be responsible for more of it than their old man widow neighbor who owns 3 acres of vacant land or the person behind them on a 1/4 acre lot with a 3000sq foot home and 6 kids.

 

[Ingomike]

Replace the tax? Why replace?

Because property ownership requires services to be useful to people. This land, that we all see today was not like this when our ancestors got here it took work, time, and money to get it it to the valuable stage it is today. We are government, we can do anything we can convince enough of our fellow citizens to do.

Let's gut the state spending.

Great topic for another thread.

Eliminate all referendums.

All for it. If parents want it they can pay it.

You can go line by line through the state and cut and cut and cut. We have billions in surplus. Why? Cause we are over taxed. Shouldn't the state break even? It’s not the states job to make money. Cut all salaries, freeze new hires. Cut social programs, quit the policy of if ya dont spend all your budget for your dept ya might lose it. That just encourages waste. Aduit the living g hell out of every state dept. The state drives newer vehicles and rotates them out for newer. Make them drive 20 year old vehicles.

Again, not about property tax.

The schools? Make a law limiting their admin people. Why do the need 10 people in the admin making 90k or more?

Agreed!

Roads? We pay registration, tire tax, a sales tax on gas and a gas tax that goes up. Why? Cause no one ever questions the d.o.t why they need they money.

The state road tax does not cover county, city, and town maintenance, I posted a link on that earlier in this thread.

Ya wanna keep property tax? Okay. Then how about just limiting it to the original assessed value? Like it’s been stated over and over and over.

Reposting this:

The most interesting one to me is the buy your property your tax is locked until you sell.

The pro of is this is the owners rate never changes. Cannot think of another pro but please share if you do.

Cons, this doesn’t change the budget, therefore very unequal treatment of the people that was the basis for ISC striking down the old system. Then it will shift a radical tax increase when property does sell putting much burden on those trying to buy a property while shielding the current owners from an increase.

This also will encourage people to hold property they no longer want, that others may have productive use for, because the property they really want will have a big tax increase. Do not see how this helps the overall community only a few that have the property they wish to own until they die.

Why should our govt grow non stop while the people don't?

Is county government growing That much or are their costs and labor going up like everyone else?

 

[Ingomike]

Stayed at a Holiday Inn once or twice as well. Please, do tell how my pension works and is/was funded.

If I am mistaken I apologize but based on previous posts I recalled you saying that.

Be sure to include how a widowed old man in Marion County who owns 5 acres of vacant land should be responsible for more of it than their old man widow neighbor who owns 3 acres of vacant land or the person behind them on a 1/4 acre lot with a 3000sq foot home and 6 kids.

I am telling you how it is, I am not defending their tables. I do say property benefits from the county services and those need to be paid for equitably by the owners not by those that do not own property.

 

[Cavman]

Because property ownership requires services to be useful to people. This land, that we all see today was not like this when our ancestors got here it took work, time, and money to get it it to the valuable stage it is today. We are government, we can do anything we can convince enough of our fellow citizens to do.


Great topic for another thread.

All for it. If parents want it they can pay it.


Again, not about property tax.


Agreed!


The state road tax does not cover county, city, and town maintenance, I posted a link on that earlier in this thread.


Reposting this:

The most interesting one to me is the buy your property your tax is locked until you sell.

The pro of is this is the owners rate never changes. Cannot think of another pro but please share if you do.

Cons, this doesn’t change the budget, therefore very unequal treatment of the people that was the basis for ISC striking down the old system. Then it will shift a radical tax increase when property does sell putting much burden on those trying to buy a property while shielding the current owners from an increase.

This also will encourage people to hold property they no longer want, that others may have productive use for, because the property they really want will have a big tax increase. Do not see how this helps the overall community only a few that have the property they wish to own until they die.


Is county government growing That much or are their costs and labor going up like everyone else?

So I live out in the country and receive 0 govt services.. water? Nope thats a private company. Snd I always have option to opt out and dig a well. Road? Highway that I pay all those super awesome gas taxes for. So what services is my property paying for? Police and fire? So what if I never ever use them? Can I get a check every 10 years or so refunding me for not using? And the last part about people holding onto property. Ya mean like right now those that have really good interest rates that don't wanna leave now caus with would cost them more now? Sorry they greater good of the community sounds like some commie mumbo

 

[bobzilla]

Replace the tax? Why replace? Let's gut the state spending. Eliminate all referendums. You can go line by line through the state and cut and cut and cut. We have billions in surplus. Why? Cause we are over taxed. Shouldn't the state break even? Its not the states job to make money. Cut all salaries, freeze new hires. Cut social programs, quit the policy of if ya dont spend all your budget for your dept ya might lose it. That just encourages waste. Aduit the living g hell out of every state dept. The state drives newer vehicles and rotates them out for newer. Make them drive 20 year old vehicles. The schools? Make a law limiting their admin people. Why do the need 10 people in the admin making 90k or more? Roads? We pay registration, tire tax, a sales tax on gas and a gas tax that goes up. Why? Cause no one ever questions the d.o.t why they need they money. Ya wanna keep property tax? Okay. Then how about just limiting it to the original assessed value? Like its been stated over and over and over. Why should our govt grow non stop while the people don't?

While this is a fantastic dream, it has as much chance at reality as monkeys flying out of my butt. If there was a single state that had zero property taxes, we might have a slim chance of at least making a committee. But considering all 50 states have one, and not a single one has repealed it is not a good sign.

Now before you go calling me names and think I'm a tax lover, I loathe property taxes. I do not think I should be forced to pay the king ransom to live on property that I paid for with my work and time. But the reality is we do, and we are one of the cheapest we in the US. I think our best option is to find a way to keep it cheaper, and to make sure those on fixed incomes are not forced out of their retirement homes because some town decided to annex literally everything in sight and raise their property worth.

 

[Cavman]

While this is a fantastic dream, it has as much chance at reality as monkeys flying out of my butt. If there was a single state that had zero property taxes, we might have a slim chance of at least making a committee. But considering all 50 states have one, and not a single one has repealed it is not a good sign.

Now before you go calling me names and think I'm a tax lover, I loathe property taxes. I do not think I should be forced to pay the king ransom to live on property that I paid for with my work and time. But the reality is we do, and we are one of the cheapest we in the US. I think our best option is to find a way to keep it cheaper, and to make sure those on fixed incomes are not forced out of their retirement homes because some town decided to annex literally everything in sight and raise their property worth.

Then it has to boil to gutting the state and l9cal spending so they dont they need property taxes.. billions in surplus is billions stolen

 

[firecadet613]

Then it has to boil to gutting the state and l9cal spending so they dont they need property taxes.. billions in surplus is billions stolen

Not going to happen and I'm A'OK with them having a surplus. Hard times are sure to come.

Look at our neighbors to the west, huge deficits with even larger property tax bills...

 

[Cavman]

Not going to happen and I'm A'OK with them having a surplus. Hard times are sure to come.

Look at our neighbors to the west, huge deficits with even larger property tax bills...

But wouldn't have deficit if ya dont spend money ya dont have.

 

[Cavman]

And hard times like people not being able to afford the property taxes that are rising?

 

[Ingomike]

So I live out in the country and receive 0 govt services..

Not true at all. If you one the land you have a deed on file with the county. You have a sheriff. You have a surveyor and drainage board. And of course schools to name a few.

Road? Highway that I pay all those super awesome gas taxes for.

As said before the state gas tax does not pay for all county road expenses.

So what services is my property paying for? Police and fire? So what if I never ever use them?

They are on standby. Why buy a fire extinguisher if you never plan to use it?

Can I get a check every 10 years or so refunding me for not using?

Because you apparently cannot see what property tax dollars go to how would you know what to ask for a refund for?

And the last part about people holding onto property. Ya mean like right now those that have really good interest rates that don't wanna leave now caus with would cost them more now?

They sure will.

Sorry they greater good of the community sounds like some commie mumbo

Funny thing here on INGO, the founders are revered for their 1st and 2nd amendments but they did not see property tax as a problem that had been in use for about 100 years prior to the constitution. I am an independent guy that doesn’t like being told what to do any more than you but I also can understand that must be tempered with the fact we live on a crowded planet…

 

[phylodog]

I am telling you how it is, I am not defending their tables. I do say property benefits from the county services and those need to be paid for equitably by the owners not by those that do not own property.

I am drawing a LE pension but it is not part of PERF and is/was a self funded and managed plan.

I believe you are way overestimating the average services received by rural property owners as well. I don't agree that I should bear any more financial responsibility for the roads adjacent to my property than any of the other 100 people who drive down them daily.

I have a creek on my property which drains naturally, it feeds in to white river a mile downstream and has been doing so for a lot longer than human beings were constructing wooden houses on this continent. The neighboring farmer just paid well over $150,000 to have drainage tile installed which included a portion through my pasture so I find it challenging to justify taxes for drainage. Are drainage requirements a reality for the county? Sure, but if my property doesn't benefit from them why should I bear any more responsibility for them than someone renting an apartment in town?

There are no doubt governmental services which benefit rural property "owners" like myself. However, those services are dramatically, drastically reduced compared to the services we utilized when we lived in the burbs.

Schools should absolutely not be funded by property taxes under the current system. I've heard several times how unfair it would be to tax non property owners for things which benefit property owners exclusively. I don't have a problem with that but let's begin applying the same rules to everything. My daughter graduated last year, considering the portion of my taxes going to fund the school system my property taxes should have dropped by 60% this year.

I've stated many times, this country has never been short on creative ways to tax. My taxes currently fund more programs that I would opt out of if given a choice than programs the government should actually be engaging in. I don't want to pay for abortions, free anything but outbound plane tickets for illegals, I don't want to pay for someone else's kid's college loans, I don't want to pay for any more of Ukraine's ******** nor have I ever wanted one red cent of money I earned to go to the likes of ****ing Iran. But here we are.

A system which does not allow for actual, legitimate ownership of property is not a system based on freedom and no one but the government actually owns anything. That is ******** and the fact that it has been this way forever doesn't change the fact that it's still ********. It needs to change and I honestly do not care how they collect the taxes needed to pay for the 85% useless government or whether they collect them at all. I suspect the entire annual revenue generated by Indiana property couldn't cast a shadow on the 34 trillion dollars in, lets call it uncollected taxes our government has created out of thin air. The system doesn't have to work this way and 100% of the time I'll side with the people over the government, at least the government we have today. 85% of the government, from the townships up to the White House could vanish tomorrow and this country would be better off for it.

 

[bobzilla]

I am drawing a LE pension but it is not part of PERF and is/was a self funded and managed plan.

I believe you are way overestimating the average services received by rural property owners as well. I don't agree that I should bear any more financial responsibility for the roads adjacent to my property than any of the other 100 people who drive down them daily.

I have a creek on my property which drains naturally, it feeds in to white river a mile downstream and has been doing so for a lot longer than human beings were constructing wooden houses on this continent. The neighboring farmer just paid well over $150,000 to have drainage tile installed which included a portion through my pasture so I find it challenging to justify taxes for drainage. Are drainage requirements a reality for the county? Sure, but if my property doesn't benefit from them why should I bear any more responsibility for them than someone renting an apartment in town?

There are no doubt governmental services which benefit rural property "owners" like myself. However, those services are dramatically, drastically reduced compared to the services we utilized when we lived in the burbs.

Schools should absolutely not be funded by property taxes under the current system. I've heard several times how unfair it would be to tax non property owners for things which benefit property owners exclusively. I don't have a problem with that but let's begin applying the same rules to everything. My daughter graduated last year, considering the portion of my taxes going to fund the school system my property taxes should have dropped by 60% this year.

I've stated many times, this country has never been short on creative ways to tax. My taxes currently fund more programs that I would opt out of if given a choice than programs the government should actually be engaging in. I don't want to pay for abortions, free anything but outbound plane tickets for illegals, I don't want to pay for someone else's kid's college loans, I don't want to pay for any more of Ukraine's ******** nor have I ever wanted one red cent of money I earned to go to the likes of ****ing Iran. But here we are.

A system which does not allow for actual, legitimate ownership of property is not a system based on freedom and no one but the government actually owns anything. That is ******** and the fact that it has been this way forever doesn't change the fact that it's still ********. It needs to change and I honestly do not care how they collect the taxes needed to pay for the 85% useless government or whether they collect them at all. I suspect the entire annual revenue generated by Indiana property couldn't cast a shadow on the 34 trillion dollars in, lets call it uncollected taxes our government has created out of thin air. The system doesn't have to work this way and 100% of the time I'll side with the people over the government, at least the government we have today. 85% of the government, from the townships up to the White House could vanish tomorrow and this country would be better off for it.

We did not have kids. So does that mean I can get a refund for all the school money I put in for the last 20+ years?

 

[firecadet613]

And hard times like people not being able to afford the property taxes that are rising?

No hard times here. Many folks find ways to be successful even during hard economic times.